Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

[petro]

Need a replacement battery for that Tesla?
Expect to pay around 16,000 bucks for it.

How Much Does It Cost to Replace a Tesla Battery?

One of the biggest apprehensions for would-be Tesla electric vehicle (EV) owners is the prospect of battery replacement. Here we’ll look at the real cost of this repair, why it isn’t always necessary, and what you should keep in mind to protect yourself.

www.howtogeek.com

 

[Flash]

L-I technology is fine for hand held drills and weed trimmers but it sucks for vehicles.

Only idiots would buy a L-I vehicle.

 

[ReinyDays]

On the bright side ... all these EVs hitting the junk yards should crash copper prices ...

 

[Flopper]

Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

Millions of Electric Car Batteries Retiring by 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

www.theepochtimes.com

10 Sep 2022 ~~ By Autumn Spreadmann

The evolving landscape of lithium batteries is creating both contradictions and infrastructure hurdles that, according to some, need to be addressed sooner rather than later. A critical component of this is waste management.
More than 6 million electric vehicle (EV) battery packs will end up as scrap between now and 2030, and the recycling and reuse industries are racing to keep up. Some researchers project that recycling alone will be an over $12 billion industry by 2025.
U.S. President Joe Biden wants to make America a key player in the EV battery industry with a $3.1 billion spending package for automobile production to transition away from fossil fuels.
Much of this dream is pinned on a dusty stretch of soil in the Nevada high desert called Thacker Pass. It serves as the lynchpin in Biden’s push for increased domestic lithium production and more EV batteries. That’s because Thacker Pass is the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States.
Currently, China dominates the world’s EV battery production, with more than 80 percent of all units developed there.
Yet while Biden’s administration has its sights on the top spot for EV battery production, insiders are pointing out industry trapdoors.
~Snip~
Thacker Pass, Nev., has the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States. (Lithium Americas)
Due to the potentially dangerous chemistry of lithium-ion EV units, concrete solutions are needed before an avalanche of dead battery packs ends up sitting around and waiting for recycling like ticking time bombs.
Those working on the sales end of the EV revolution tend to squirm or offer vague generalities when queried about what will happen to all of the old batteries.
The notion is quickly lumped into the very broad category of recycling or second life applications without offering any planning details.
Second life applications are an option for EV batteries no longer fit to power cars, but are suitable for alternative uses like energy storage.
And while that’s a start, the ultimate question lingers: How can America effectively deal with millions of completely spent, defective, or recalled EV units?
For people who specialize in hazardous waste, handling lithium batteries is a serious subject.

A ‘Thermal Runaway’​

“The packing and logistics isn’t easy or cheap,” Thibodeau said.
Moreover, the batteries pose a significant fire hazard.
Tucked within the sprawling Chicago suburbs is the town of Morris, Illinois. Around midday on Jun. 29, 2021, the fire department received a call that a warehouse fire had broken out in a structure that many residents assumed was just an abandoned building. The call came from someone who claimed to be an employee for a company that was storing 200,000 pounds of batteries in the building, most of which were lithium.
Fire Chief Tracey Steffes told reporters that it was the first time his department had ever fought a lithium fire.
Mitigating traditional fires is done by using water or chemicals to cut off the supply of oxygen. However, lithium is unique in that it doesn’t require oxygen to burn. Once ignited, it creates what Thibodeau called a “thermal runaway,” which is incredibly challenging to control.

Commentary:
Not to worry, the EPA will pass revisions to 40 CFR Part 273 regarding disposal of Li batts that will raise the cost of disposal and the overall price of EV's and all products using Li Batts.
First off, the cars don't last as long as ICE vehicles, because it costs significant amounts to replace the battery after 80-100,000 miles. When the cars get older, they won't be worth replacing the batteries - the whole car will get junked early.
Secondly, no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.
EV's are a disaster and anybody that has a jalf a brain and thinkslogically knows that.

There is a lot of battery capacity left at the end of first use in electric vehicles. These batteries may no longer be able run vehicles but they could have second lives storing excess power generated by solar or windfarms. Several companies are running trials on spent EV batteries to determine how they can best be used.

There is a big momentum behind lithium-ion battery recycling. Billions of dollars are going into research, development and construction of recycle plants. Tesla announced that it had started building recycling capabilities at its Gigafactory in Nevada to process waste batteries.

Millions of electric car batteries will retire in the next decade. What happens to them?

The quest to prevent batteries – rich in raw materials such as cobalt, lithium and nickel – ending up as a mountain of waste

www.theguardian.com

 

[Flopper]

There is a lot of battery capacity left at the end of first use in electric vehicles. These batteries may no longer be able run vehicles but they could have second lives storing excess power generated by solar or windfarms. Several companies are running trials on spent EV batteries to determine how they can best be used.

There is a big momentum behind lithium-ion battery recycling. Billions of dollars are going into research, development and construction of recycle plants. Tesla announced that it had started building recycling capabilities at its Gigafactory in Nevada to process waste batteries.

Millions of electric car batteries will retire in the next decade. What happens to them?

The quest to prevent batteries – rich in raw materials such as cobalt, lithium and nickel – ending up as a mountain of waste

www.theguardian.com

"To advocate replacing the horse, which had served man through centuries, marks one as an imbecile."
"B. F. Goodrich said, "The cost of tires will be far greater than motorist will pay"
"The New York City police chief said,' It is just a question of time before every city bans these horseless vehicles. They are not safe and should not be allow on the road.
"They are a waste of money. They are loud, expense, and undependable"

We solved these problems and many others and we will do the same for electric powered vehicles.

 

[Doc7505]

"To advocate replacing the horse, which had served man through centuries, marks one as an imbecile."
"B. F. Goodrich said, "The cost of tires will be far greater than motorist will pay"
"The New York City police chief said,' It is just a question of time before every city bans these horseless vehicles. They are not safe and should not be allow on the road.
"They are a waste of money. They are loud, expense, and undependable"

We solved these problems and many others and we will do the same for electric powered vehicles.

~~~~~~
Back in the 90s it was Lead Acid and NiCad batteries and especially Mercury that used in those small batteries. Things haven't changed. They've become worse.

The hidden dangers of lithium battery disposal - Grundon

Learn the safest way to recycle batteries and prevent hazardous fires with Grundon Waste Management's Technical Director, Jonathan Harris.

www.grundon.com

**********​

Electric Vehicle Batteries

Strategies for recycling lithium-ion batteries will help the continued deployment of electric vehicles.

www.ucsusa.org

**********​

The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries

During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

 

[Flopper]

~~~~~~
Back in the 90s it was Lead Acid and NiCad batteries and especially Mercury that used in those small batteries. Things haven't changed. They've become worse.

The hidden dangers of lithium battery disposal - Grundon

Learn the safest way to recycle batteries and prevent hazardous fires with Grundon Waste Management's Technical Director, Jonathan Harris.

www.grundon.com

**********​

Electric Vehicle Batteries

Strategies for recycling lithium-ion batteries will help the continued deployment of electric vehicles.

www.ucsusa.org

**********​

The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries

During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

Tarzan and Jane were being pursued by a lion as they came to a river filled with crocodiles. Tarzan grabbed a vine and Jane and swung across the River arriving just as the vine broke. Jane said, if that vine had broke a second sooner we would have been eaten by crocodiles. Tarzan replied, it is better to take a chance on a bad outcome than to do nothing and watch it happen.

We know beyond a doubt that increasing greenhouse gases from fossil is going to have a bad outcome. Following Tarzan's logic, it is far better to take a chance on an uncertain outcome rather than resign ourselves to a bad outcome. Lithium and cobalt mining can certainly create environment problems but those problems can be mitigated to a great extent.

When EV batteries are no longer usable in cars they can have a second life in other applications or they can recycled. Recycling EV batteries unlike smaller Lithium batteries is very cost effective. There are 3 large recycling plants in North America that recycle EV batteries and there are more on the drawing board.

 

[Flopper]

Tarzan and Jane were being pursued by a lion as they came to a river filled with crocodiles. Tarzan grabbed both a vine and Jane and swung across the River arriving just as the vine broke. Jane said, if that vine had broke a second sooner we would have been eaten by crocodiles. Tarzan replied, it is better to take a chance on a bad outcome than to do nothing and watch it happen.

We know beyond a doubt that increasing greenhouse gases from fossil fuels is going to have a bad outcome. Following Tarzan's logic, it is far better to take a chance on an uncertain outcome rather than resign ourselves to a bad outcome. Lithium and cobalt mining can certainly create environment problems but those problems can be mitigated to a great extent.

When EV batteries are no longer usable in cars they can have a second life in other applications or they can be recycled. Recycling EV batteries unlike smaller Lithium batteries is very cost effective. There are 3 large recycling plants in North America that recycle EV batteries and there are more on the drawing board.
Incidentally, neither lead acid nor NiCad batteries are used in EVs.

 

[badger2]

Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

Millions of Electric Car Batteries Retiring by 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

www.theepochtimes.com

10 Sep 2022 ~~ By Autumn Spreadmann

The evolving landscape of lithium batteries is creating both contradictions and infrastructure hurdles that, according to some, need to be addressed sooner rather than later. A critical component of this is waste management.
More than 6 million electric vehicle (EV) battery packs will end up as scrap between now and 2030, and the recycling and reuse industries are racing to keep up. Some researchers project that recycling alone will be an over $12 billion industry by 2025.
U.S. President Joe Biden wants to make America a key player in the EV battery industry with a $3.1 billion spending package for automobile production to transition away from fossil fuels.
Much of this dream is pinned on a dusty stretch of soil in the Nevada high desert called Thacker Pass. It serves as the lynchpin in Biden’s push for increased domestic lithium production and more EV batteries. That’s because Thacker Pass is the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States.
Currently, China dominates the world’s EV battery production, with more than 80 percent of all units developed there.
Yet while Biden’s administration has its sights on the top spot for EV battery production, insiders are pointing out industry trapdoors.
~Snip~
Thacker Pass, Nev., has the largest hard rock lithium reserve in the United States. (Lithium Americas)
Due to the potentially dangerous chemistry of lithium-ion EV units, concrete solutions are needed before an avalanche of dead battery packs ends up sitting around and waiting for recycling like ticking time bombs.
Those working on the sales end of the EV revolution tend to squirm or offer vague generalities when queried about what will happen to all of the old batteries.
The notion is quickly lumped into the very broad category of recycling or second life applications without offering any planning details.
Second life applications are an option for EV batteries no longer fit to power cars, but are suitable for alternative uses like energy storage.
And while that’s a start, the ultimate question lingers: How can America effectively deal with millions of completely spent, defective, or recalled EV units?
For people who specialize in hazardous waste, handling lithium batteries is a serious subject.

A ‘Thermal Runaway’​

“The packing and logistics isn’t easy or cheap,” Thibodeau said.
Moreover, the batteries pose a significant fire hazard.
Tucked within the sprawling Chicago suburbs is the town of Morris, Illinois. Around midday on Jun. 29, 2021, the fire department received a call that a warehouse fire had broken out in a structure that many residents assumed was just an abandoned building. The call came from someone who claimed to be an employee for a company that was storing 200,000 pounds of batteries in the building, most of which were lithium.
Fire Chief Tracey Steffes told reporters that it was the first time his department had ever fought a lithium fire.
Mitigating traditional fires is done by using water or chemicals to cut off the supply of oxygen. However, lithium is unique in that it doesn’t require oxygen to burn. Once ignited, it creates what Thibodeau called a “thermal runaway,” which is incredibly challenging to control.

Commentary:
Not to worry, the EPA will pass revisions to 40 CFR Part 273 regarding disposal of Li batts that will raise the cost of disposal and the overall price of EV's and all products using Li Batts.
First off, the cars don't last as long as ICE vehicles, because it costs significant amounts to replace the battery after 80-100,000 miles. When the cars get older, they won't be worth replacing the batteries - the whole car will get junked early.
Secondly, no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.
EV's are a disaster and anybody that has a jalf a brain and thinkslogically knows that.

Stupid. It reads, 'no one has considered the cost and energy required to recycle or disposal of the batteries - that kills any efficiency gained over the life of the vehicle.'

Here, half-brain: Acidothiobacillus.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Can anyone actually see the United States improving it's financial situation or even it's racial problems enough to really believe we could get our act together as a nation and improve the electrical infrastructure adequately to meet the demand of all those additional billions of KWh that will be needed if too many people start using EV's?
Hell, most of the existing charging stations are already falling apart.

And please don't say that will be resolved by solar or wind. Both are far too unreliable for vehicles millions would rely on to get to work every morning.
This whole EV thing is such a dead end.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Lead/acid batteries in the landfill are safer? ...

Lead acid batteries are recycled, they're worth money so take them to scrap yards when you weigh in your other scrap metals.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I never said EV's were bad. There is a niche. It's not as a replacement for ICE vehicles. What's bad is idiots trying to force square pegs in round holes.

The niche is, upper class and upper middle class. EV demand has fallen in the UK because they now cost more to recharge than to refuel an ICE vehicle, they cost more to buy, which makes them out of reach of the middle class unless they drop significantly in value.

So people will need a second hand market, but who wants a lithium battery of that size with unknown lifespan and a nightmare to deal with at it's end of life.

 

[ReinyDays]

Lead acid batteries are recycled, they're worth money so take them to scrap yards when you weigh in your other scrap metals.

Considering all the crap folks have to go through to mine lithium ... these new batteries are going to be recycled as well ... along with the copper wire, steel framing, aluminum ... all the recycling we do today ... any car will have this value ...

The recycling problems come from the plastics and rubber parts ... and these will be the same for both piston engines, electric motors and batteries of any kind ... just EVs don't have all the flammable fluids that spill on the roadbed and catch fire ...

REMEMBER: we're reducing the number of passenger cars on the road by 90% ... that's both EVs and piston engined ... our fossil 'fuels' are too valuable to just simply burn to charge your EV ... use a bicycle lazy shit ...

 

[ding]

Considering all the crap folks have to go through to mine lithium ... these new batteries are going to be recycled as well ... along with the copper wire, steel framing, aluminum ... all the recycling we do today ... any car will have this value ...

The recycling problems come from the plastics and rubber parts ... and these will be the same for both piston engines, electric motors and batteries of any kind ... just EVs don't have all the flammable fluids that spill on the roadbed and catch fire ...

REMEMBER: we're reducing the number of passenger cars on the road by 90% ... that's both EVs and piston engined ... our fossil 'fuels' are too valuable to just simply burn to charge your EV ... use a bicycle lazy shit ...

Until they standardize battery designs recycling will be problematic.

 

[ding]

The niche is, upper class and upper middle class. EV demand has fallen in the UK because they now cost more to recharge than to refuel an ICE vehicle, they cost more to buy, which makes them out of reach of the middle class unless they drop significantly in value.

So people will need a second hand market, but who wants a lithium battery of that size with unknown lifespan and a nightmare to deal with at it's end of life.

I would be surprised that there would ever be much of a second hand market for EV's with batteries that won't hold charges well as they age.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Considering all the crap folks have to go through to mine lithium ... these new batteries are going to be recycled as well ... along with the copper wire, steel framing, aluminum ... all the recycling we do today ... any car will have this value ...

The recycling problems come from the plastics and rubber parts ... and these will be the same for both piston engines, electric motors and batteries of any kind ... just EVs don't have all the flammable fluids that spill on the roadbed and catch fire ...

REMEMBER: we're reducing the number of passenger cars on the road by 90% ... that's both EVs and piston engined ... our fossil 'fuels' are too valuable to just simply burn to charge your EV ... use a bicycle lazy shit ...

Don't EV's have brake and power steering fluid? I'm not aquatinted with their design. I can't see lithium battery recycling being easy and/or cheap. The only difference between an ICE and EV fire in say an accident, is the ferocity of a litium battery fire.

I would love to use my bicycle, but I would struggle to take my tools. The current job, I'm using my petrol cement mixer, wheelbarrow, and tool bucket. I couldn't fit them in my bicycle basket. Plus, cycling 40 miles to that job and then back with those tools is not possible.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I would be surprised that there would ever be much of a second hand market for EV's with batteries that won't hold charges well as they age.

I wonder how governments expect their peasants to get about.

 

[Flopper]

I would be surprised that there would ever be much of a second hand market for EV's with batteries that won't hold charges well as they age.

As EV batteries reach the end of there useful life, the vehicle slows down and cannot reach high speeds. These battery packs still contain well over half of their storage capacity when they are deemed unfit for use in a vehicle. In some instances, these batteries can be directly repurposed to power light-duty vehicles or industrial equipment. Often, spent EV batteries will find new life in energy storage systems. Depending on the state of the batteries, they may be integrated into large, stationary energy storage systems, such as solar panel grids, or into commercial and personal energy solutions, such as back-up power supplies.

Currently there is not enough spent EV batteries to repurpose but that will come in time. Till then they will be recycled at one of 3 plants in North America. There are about dozen more plants in the planning stage. The problem planner are having in addition to projecting the number spent batteries per year but also the impact of re-purposing.

What Happens After an Electric Vehicle Battery Dies? | Rokion

what happens to an EV battery after it’s taken out of the vehicle?

rokion.com

 

[ding]

As EV batteries reach the end of there useful life, the vehicle slows down and cannot reach high speeds. These battery packs still contain well over half of their storage capacity when they are deemed unfit for use in a vehicle. In some instances, these batteries can be directly repurposed to power light-duty vehicles or industrial equipment. Often, spent EV batteries will find new life in energy storage systems. Depending on the state of the batteries, they may be integrated into large, stationary energy storage systems, such as solar panel grids, or into commercial and personal energy solutions, such as back-up power supplies.

Currently there is not enough spent EV batteries to repurpose but that will come in time. Till then they will be recycled at one of 3 plants in North America. There are about dozen more plants in the planning stage. The problem planner are having in addition to projecting the number spent batteries per year but also the impact of re-purposing.

What Happens After an Electric Vehicle Battery Dies? | Rokion

what happens to an EV battery after it’s taken out of the vehicle?

rokion.com

Good to know. I'm thinking standardization would be important for recycling and re-purposing purposes.

 

[Flopper]

I wonder how governments expect their peasants to get about.

So much is being written about about EVs, people are forgetting the expansion in mass transit in larger cities.

IMHO, the goals for replacing ICEs is overly optimist. We will be lucky if we replace half the ICE cars on the road with EVs by 2050, more likely 25% or 30%. I expect it will be the end of this century before all autos and light trucks are EVs.

If the only challenge was building and selling cars, we might reach these goals but there's a lot more that has to done. 25% to 30% of American live in apartment buildings or older houses where charging is not practical and most businesses do not have charging stations for employees and those that do will need a lot more. Motel and hotel in the country are going have to get a lot more charging stations for there guests plus there has to be more charging stations on highways. And lastly there will have to be a significant increase in power generating capacity and the efficiency of our electric grids. And all this is going to happen while the nation and world is dealing with the increasing need for resourses to deal with the results of climate change.