Morally Bizarre

[georgephillip]

Solution, buy stocks instead of crack, booze, porn, tattoos, rims, Jordans.

Good advice which only applies to about 20% of Americans:
"At the other extreme, the 400 wealthiest Americans own as much wealth as 80 million families -- 62% of America. The reason, once again, is the stock market. Since 1980 the American GDP has approximately doubled. Inflation-adjusted wages have gone down. But the stock market has increased by over ten times, and the richest quintile of Americans owns 93% of it."
http://www.nobillionaires.com/
Five Ugly Extremes of Inequality in America -- The Contrasts Will Drop Your Chin to the Floor Alternet

 

[Conservative65]

No one should receive as a birthright what belongs to someone else no matter how many excuses are made to do it.

What do you mean by "belongs to someone else?" You didn't acquire your education or lifestyle without availing yourself of the cultural inheritance of humanity.
"He (CH Douglas) defined cultural inheritance as the knowledge, techniques and processes that have been handed down to us incrementally from the origins of civilization (i.e.progress).

"Consequently, mankind does not have to keep 'reinventing the wheel'. 'We are merely the administrators of that cultural inheritance, and to that extent the cultural inheritance is the property of all of us, without exception.'"
Billionaires and other parasites have been hoarding the cultural inheritance of society for thousands of years, and that's why education and health care are currently available only to those who earn enough money to obtain them through the market place.
Social credit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I am the one that goes out and earns the paycheck I get not someone else that think it belong to him/her. I see you use the typical and brainwashed mindset of the affirmative aciton President of you didn't build that. I did build it. I am the one that acquired the education that allows me to live the lifestyle I have. No one sat in the classes for me or took the tests for me. If they want what I have earned, let them do what I did to earn it of fucking do without.

The only parasites are those who think someone else's hard work should benefit them. The remaining parasites are those like you that think they should benefit. I earned scholarships to pay for my school. They didn't come to me because I demanded someone give it. Hard work did it and I'm the one, not some gimme mindset leech. If they want what I earned, let them do what I did. Otherwise, they can go screw themselves. Yes, I got mine because I put in the work.

 

[Conservative65]

When it comes to education, my wife and I have saved since out children were born in order to pay for college. We didn't save so someone else's kid whose parents didn't do that could go at our expense.

Here's a big reason why you've had to work so hard to provide something your children and everyone else's should receive as a birthright:
"At the other extreme, the 400 wealthiest Americans own as much wealth as 80 million families -- 62% of America.

"The reason, once again, is the stock market.

"Since 1980 the American GDP has approximately doubled.

"Inflation-adjusted wages have gone down. But the stock market has increased by over ten times, and the richest quintile of Americans owns 93% of it."
Five Ugly Extremes of Inequality in America -- The Contrasts Will Drop Your Chin to the Floor Alternet

Solution, buy stocks instead of crack, booze, porn, tattoos, rims, Jordans..........................................!

Exactly. Let those who think they have a birthright to what took years of hard work and sacrifice to get start sacrificing and putting in that same hard work.

 

[georgephillip]

I earned scholarships to pay for my school. They didn't come to me because I demanded someone give it. Hard work did

I'm not saying your hard work didn't result in the success you claim you've achieved; I am saying you should not have required "scholarships" to pay for it. If you attended public elementary schools, who paid for your literacy? In some countries the same principle extends through grad school. The only reason that doesn't apply in the richest country in the world is because billionaires would not exist if it did.

 

[Conservative65]

I earned scholarships to pay for my school. They didn't come to me because I demanded someone give it. Hard work did

I'm not saying your hard work didn't result in the success you claim you've achieved; I am saying you should not have required "scholarships" to pay for it. If you attended public elementary schools, who paid for your literacy? In some countries the same principle extends through grad school. The only reason that doesn't apply in the richest country in the world is because billionaires would not exist if it did.

Scholarships were a result of my hard work. Taxpayers should not be required to fund a college education for anyone. If someone can't afford to send their kid through college, you are more than welcome to pay the tuition on their behalf. You aren't welcome to demand I should.

Who paid for my literacy when I attended elementary school? Actually my parents did. I attended private school through the 12th grade jackass. On top of that, they paid and have continue to pay to fund the literacy of those when the schools they fund weren't used by their children. On a side note, I was ahead of where I should have been with literacy when I started school. That's because my parents spent time with me as they felt it was important. I did the same with mine and it produced the same results. Not my place to overcome that if someone's parents didn't espeically if I'm forced to do it.

 

[jillian]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/republican-admits-why-republicans-hate-obamacare.html

Conservatives have made a series of specific predictions about the effects of Obamacare — overall costs would rise, insurers would flee the exchanges, premiums would go up, the ranks of the uninsured would not even fall. All these predictions have failed. And yet conservative opposition to the law has not diminished. If you want to know why this is, listen to these secretly recorded comments from Iowa Republican Senate candidate Joni Ernst, via Radio Iowa and Greg Sargent. Here Ernst, speaking candidly to supporters, gets to the root of conservative opposition:

“We’re looking at Obamacare right now. Once we start with those benefits in January, how are we going to get people off of those? It’s exponentially harder to remove people once they’ve already been on those programs…we rely on government for absolutely everything. And in the years since I was a small girl up until now into my adulthood with children of my own, we have lost a reliance on not only our own families, but so much of what our churches and private organizations used to do. They used to have wonderful food pantries. They used to provide clothing for those that really needed it. But we have gotten away from that. Now we’re at a point where the government will just give away anything.”

That’s the fundamental belief that motivates most, if not all, the conservative opposition: Health care should be a privilege rather than a right. If you can’t afford health insurance on your own, that is not the government’s problem.

I happen to find this belief morally bizarre. People who cannot afford their own insurance either don’t earn much money, or have health risks, or family members with health risks, too expensive to bear.

...

Read this a few days ago, and found it really striking, because the author's reaction is exactly the same as my reaction to the idea that a service someone else provides can be claimed as a right. THAT seems morally bizarre to me.

you are confused about the "author's reaction". the reaction being described is the rightwing reaction.

you also seem to be confused about what a right is and what the role of health care is in civilized countries.

 

[georgephillip]

Scholarships were a result of my hard work. Taxpayers should not be required to fund a college education for anyone. If someone can't afford to send their kid through college, you are more than welcome to pay the tuition on their behalf. You aren't welcome to demand I should.

If taxpayers are required to fund a future MD's elementary school education, why shouldn't they accept the same obligation for med school? Is it logical that poor countries like Armenia can fund their MDs school expenses and living expenses but the US can fund neither? Or do you harbor hopes of being a billionaire one day...

 

[Conservative65]

Scholarships were a result of my hard work. Taxpayers should not be required to fund a college education for anyone. If someone can't afford to send their kid through college, you are more than welcome to pay the tuition on their behalf. You aren't welcome to demand I should.

If taxpayers are required to fund a future MD's elementary school education, why shouldn't they accept the same obligation for med school? Is it logical that poor countries like Armenia can fund their MDs school expenses and living expenses but the US can fund neither? Or do you harbor hopes of being a billionaire one day...

If someone is in med school, they are actually doing something toward being an MD. If someone in elementary school says they want to be an MD, they are doing nothing more than talking. Either way, it's not my place to be forced to fund college for anyone regardless of their aspirations.

If you like what Armenia is doing, move there. If you're not willing to move where you like it, STFU about us doing it their way.

I likely won't ever be a billionaire. Doesn't change that what I earned should be used to pay for my kid's college, if I choose to do that for what scholarships they won't get, not someone other person's kid.

Sor the sake of argument, let's say college is funded and the person flunks out or quits. Should they be required to pay it back? Without some sort of incentive, what's to stop those having no business going to college going just to occupy time?

 

[georgephillip]

ither way, it's not my place to be forced to fund college for anyone regardless of their aspirations.

How is that any different from funding elementary school for those you don't know? Do you actually believe you would have accomplished all you have without past generations of society creating the infrastructure for your success?

 

[dblack]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/republican-admits-why-republicans-hate-obamacare.html

Conservatives have made a series of specific predictions about the effects of Obamacare — overall costs would rise, insurers would flee the exchanges, premiums would go up, the ranks of the uninsured would not even fall. All these predictions have failed. And yet conservative opposition to the law has not diminished. If you want to know why this is, listen to these secretly recorded comments from Iowa Republican Senate candidate Joni Ernst, via Radio Iowa and Greg Sargent. Here Ernst, speaking candidly to supporters, gets to the root of conservative opposition:

“We’re looking at Obamacare right now. Once we start with those benefits in January, how are we going to get people off of those? It’s exponentially harder to remove people once they’ve already been on those programs…we rely on government for absolutely everything. And in the years since I was a small girl up until now into my adulthood with children of my own, we have lost a reliance on not only our own families, but so much of what our churches and private organizations used to do. They used to have wonderful food pantries. They used to provide clothing for those that really needed it. But we have gotten away from that. Now we’re at a point where the government will just give away anything.”

That’s the fundamental belief that motivates most, if not all, the conservative opposition: Health care should be a privilege rather than a right. If you can’t afford health insurance on your own, that is not the government’s problem.

I happen to find this belief morally bizarre. People who cannot afford their own insurance either don’t earn much money, or have health risks, or family members with health risks, too expensive to bear.

...

Read this a few days ago, and found it really striking, because the author's reaction is exactly the same as my reaction to the idea that a service someone else provides can be claimed as a right. THAT seems morally bizarre to me.

you are confused about the "author's reaction". the reaction being described is the rightwing reaction.

you also seem to be confused about what a right is and what the role of health care is in civilized countries.

Oh, well maybe you can clear things up for me. What did I get wrong?

 

[Conservative65]

ither way, it's not my place to be forced to fund college for anyone regardless of their aspirations.

How is that any different from funding elementary school for those you don't know? Do you actually believe you would have accomplished all you have without past generations of society creating the infrastructure for your success?

The funding of local elementary schools is done based on a State level decision through property taxes. If you'll read the Constitution you bleeding hearts claim to hold so near and dear to your hearts, there is nothing in it that gives the federal government authority to deal with education. The 10th Amendment, however, gives States the authority to deal with things that aren't a federal level power. Education is one of them. While I may not agree specifically with using property taxes to fund it, if my State under it's reserved powers chooses to do it, they have that authority. If they don't or don't do it the way federal level officials want, that doens't, by default, give the federal government authority.

What I believe is that my success was due to MY hard work in school and afterwards. I didn't do it to pay for someone else's kid to go to school especially if doing so takes away a penny of my ability to do it for mine. You are more than welcome to fund college for any person of your choosing. You won't but you will damn sure demand others be forced to do it your way.

 

[dblack]

ither way, it's not my place to be forced to fund college for anyone regardless of their aspirations.

How is that any different from funding elementary school for those you don't know?

It's not

Do you actually believe you would have accomplished all you have without past generations of society creating the infrastructure for your success?

Of course not. None of us is an island. But the pertinent question is whether people should be forced to create such an infrastructure. I don't think they should. Moreover, I don't think much would change if such public goods were no longer maintained by government. Society promotes education and welfare because it's in our interests to do so. Such functions can, and do, exist without coercive government.

 

[Conservative65]

ither way, it's not my place to be forced to fund college for anyone regardless of their aspirations.

How is that any different from funding elementary school for those you don't know?

It's not

Do you actually believe you would have accomplished all you have without past generations of society creating the infrastructure for your success?

Of course not. None of us is an island. But the pertinent question is whether society will create such infrastructure without compulsory government programs.

To people like georgephillip, the only way something can get done is by government intervention. He doesn't take into account that a lot was done prior to the mindset of entitlement and if one person has it but another doesn't, the one that does got it by cheating out the one that doesn't. Any time he want to pay the tuition for someone he doesn't, I'm sure the college/university taking the money wouldn't care whether it came from him or the parents of the kid he's funding.

 

[georgephillip]

Society promotes education and welfare because it's in our interests to do so. Such functions can, and do, exist without coercive government.

Is it likely corporate rule would be any less coercive?

 

[dblack]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'corporate rule'. Although the term might describe what we have now.

 

[georgephillip]

To people like georgephillip, the only way something can get done is by government intervention. He doesn't take into account that a lot was done prior to the mindset of entitlement and if one person has it but another doesn't, the one that does got it by cheating out the one that doesn't.

While those who "think" the way you do can't imagine a government that doesn't serve its richest citizens first and foremost, and there is good historical evidence to support your ignorance since all governments ever created have behaved in just that manner. Your fatal flaw is believing individuals concerned solely with their own selfish ends can ever change that particular tyranny. You can't.

 

[Conservative65]

To people like georgephillip, the only way something can get done is by government intervention. He doesn't take into account that a lot was done prior to the mindset of entitlement and if one person has it but another doesn't, the one that does got it by cheating out the one that doesn't.

While those who "think" the way you do can't imagine a government that doesn't serve its richest citizens first and foremost, and there is good historical evidence to support your ignorance since all governments ever created have behaved in just that manner. Your fatal flaw is believing individuals concerned solely with their own selfish ends can ever change that particular tyranny. You can't.

Selfish ends? Nothing selfish about me wanting to keep what I've earned to use on me and my family. However, selfishness abounds when someone that didn't earn it thinking a portion of what I earned should support them and their kids. All I ask is to keep what I did the work to get. They are asking to get a portion of what they didn't work to earn.

 

[georgephillip]

Selfish ends? Nothing selfish about me wanting to keep what I've earned to use on me and my family. However, selfishness abounds when someone that didn't earn it thinking a portion of what I earned should support them and their kids. All I ask is to keep what I did the work to get. They are asking to get a portion of what they didn't work to earn.

It isn't likely you're rich enough to be affected by the changes required to fund health care and education in the US as human rights. When you earn your first billion, then you can embrace greed and selfishness.

 

[dblack]

Society promotes education and welfare because it's in our interests to do so. Such functions can, and do, exist without coercive government.

Is it likely corporate rule would be any less coercive?

I'd like to come back to this - because I think the assumption behind this question is really one of our biggest problems You seem to be assuming that we have a choice between surrendering our freedom to government, or to corporations, and I really don't get where that comes from. I know a lot of liberals see it that way but I don't see why. Corporations don't rule anything, only government does that. The question is how we want government to rule.

In that context, I suppose you might say that it's then a choice between government that rules in favor of corporations, or "the people" (nevermind, for now, that corporations are owned by "the people"). But even that seems like a false dilemma. Why can't we have government that protects economic freedom for everyone?

 

[Conservative65]

Selfish ends? Nothing selfish about me wanting to keep what I've earned to use on me and my family. However, selfishness abounds when someone that didn't earn it thinking a portion of what I earned should support them and their kids. All I ask is to keep what I did the work to get. They are asking to get a portion of what they didn't work to earn.

It isn't likely you're rich enough to be affected by the changes required to fund health care and education in the US as human rights. When you earn your first billion, then you can embrace greed and selfishness.

Neither are human rights especially if another person is forced to fund it for some sorry piece of shit, which likely includes you, because you won't do it for yourself.

No ones owes another person a damn thing in life nor is it greedy to want to keep what you've earned. However, it is greedy to think a penny of what another person has is yours.