Nato Planning Massive Buildup Along Russia's Border.

[ESay]

Russia gave freedom to Ukraine, Central Asia, Poland, East Germany, etc... and was minding her own business in the 90's.

The bullies are the ones who took advantage of Russia's magnanimous act of dismantling the soviet empire and started dotting the country's neighborhood and borders with american military bases.

Russia gave freedom to Ukraine, Central Asia, Poland, East Germany, etc... and was minding her own business in the 90's.

The bullies are the ones who took advantage of Russia's magnanimous act of dismantling the soviet empire and started dotting the country's neighborhood and borders with american military bases.

Russia didn't give anything to anyone. Just political system collapsed and the territories broke away to the point that proper Russia might also have been disintegrated.

But as soon as Russia stood on its feet again, it recalled its empire's past at once.

 

[zaangalewa]

What, is Germany going to send their dozen serviceable MBTs?

Shrink heads like yours.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Esay
Russia didn't give anything to anyone. Just political system collapsed and the territories broke away to the point that proper Russia might also have been disintegrated.

But as soon as Russia stood on its feet again, it recalled its empire's past at once.

Your lack of knowledge of the history of the Soviet Union is abysmal.

I'm old enough to remember when Chernenko passed away and a new, young soviet leader came to power.

All the leading experts on the Soviet Union agreed unanimously that the new leader would be "more of the same", that no drastic change would occur since the Soviet Union was not going through any acute political or economic crisis.

The Iron Curtain was dismantled because a new, reformist soviet leader came to power and started implementing reforms that eventually led to the dismantlement of the whole system not because of an imaginary acute, severe political or economic crisis in the late 1980's that only existed inside your head.

Gorbachev himself has stated in dozens of interviews that if he wanted he would still be the general secretary of the comunist party today and his words are confirmed by the current experts as well as those of the past that I mentioned.

If he had ordered soviet troops to put down the popular movements there would be no unified Germany, independent Romania, Bulgaria, etc... let alone a country named Ukraine.

 

[ESay]

Your lack of knowledge of the history of the Soviet Union is abysmal.

I'm old enough to remember when Chernenko passed away and a new, young soviet leader came to power.

All the leading experts on the Soviet Union agreed unanimously that the new leader would be "more of the same", that no drastic change would occur since the Soviet Union was not going through any acute political or economic crisis.

The Iron Curtain was dismantled because a new, reformist soviet leader came to power and started implementing reforms that eventually led to the dismantlement of the whole system not because of an imaginary acute, severe political or economic crisis in the late 1980's that only existed inside your head.

Gorbachev himself has stated in dozens of interviews that if he wanted he would still be the general secretary of the comunist party today and his words are confirmed by the current experts as well as those of the past that I mentioned.

If he had ordered soviet troops to put down the popular movements there would be no unified Germany, independent Romania, Bulgaria, etc... let alone a country named Ukraine.

What? Are you trying to say the USSR collapsed not because of fundamental flaws in its economic and political system, but because some people didn't want to preserve their power? There weren't any crisis in the late 80s there? Have you heard such words as deficit or orgprestupnost, which became widespread at those times?

I would recommend you to watch TV series 'Fitil' which depicted Soviet everyday life from a satirical point of view (at least how the Soviet censorship allowed to show it). But you won't understand much out of that, anyway.

Dude, don't embarrass yourself. It is of little interest to argue with old fart with young schoolboy's knowledge about the world.

 

[denmark]

You simply don't understand. Russia isn't going to accept the US aggression in Russia's sphere of influence, anymore than the US would accept it in theirs.

Lines of battle are drawn and it has nothing to do with the Ukraine other than they are agreeing to be America's pawns in a proxy war with Russia.

Neither the US or Russia are showing any indication of backing down to a settlement because there's so much at stake now for both sides.

China will sit it out as long as they possibly can, but I suspect that China won't tolerate a US win. There's too much as stake for China to allow that.

It's a become a matter of which great alliance controls Asia and the East.

I think you don’t understand ... that USA is much more powerful militarily (outside nukes where no one wins) and especially economically than Russia, and NATO is an additional plus against Putin. USSR crumbled because of mostly economic disadvantages. China is a more potent threat now.

Do you think Russia will also attack Finland or Sweden when they join NATO? USA will supply even more lethal weapons against Russia then.

 

[Ringo]

 

[westwall]

A classic deflection.

Show some character and explain your anger towards our brother to the south.

Duck is a Chinese stooge. Anything that hurts the west helps his masters in Beijing

 

[Toro]

NATO Planning Massive Military Buildup Along Russia's Border - News From Antiwar.com

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is in the middle of a "fundamental transformation" and planning a massive military buildup along Russian borders. Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said NATO will undergo a major "reset" and plans to put enough troops in states that border Russia to repel...

news.antiwar.com

The significance of this should be rather easy to understand. If the Buildup includes Nato military personnell, then Russia will be taking on and killing Nato's military, and that becomes the 'direct' war that has been avoided due to rules that were mutually agreed upon.
Or is this supposed to mean a massive buildup of Nato's weaponry, attended by Ukraine forces and others who are not fighting on behalf of any country?

The build up is along NATO’s Russia borders, not within Ukraine.

 

[Toro]

Russia gave freedom to Ukraine, Central Asia, Poland, East Germany, etc... and was minding her own business in the 90's.

The bullies are the ones who took advantage of Russia's magnanimous act of dismantling the soviet empire and started dotting the country's neighborhood and borders with american military bases.

IOW The rapist stopped raping you so you should be thankful to the rapist. And the bad guy is the protector who is protecting you from being raped again by the rapist.

Hilarious logic.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Toro
IOW The rapist stopped raping you so you should be thankful to the rapist.

The fact that the SU - Russia, fighting the nazi aggression, ended up imposing a comunist tyranny on Eastern Europe for 50 years is not even open for discussion because it's pure european history.

But the Soviet Union was not going through any acute, catastrophic crisis in the late 1980's so the Iron Curtain could have existed for another 20 or 30 years. It fell in the 90's because a new generation of reformist soviet leaders finally came to power.

The country then retreated to her own borders and spent the first decade (AT LEAST) minding their own business. It didn't deserve to continue to be treated as an enemy after the end of the Cold War. It was a gratuitous aggression, sheer vindictivenes, callousness, arrogance, revanchism.

It was a historic injustice that is now unfortunately having to be corrected by prehistoric means when a bare modicum of common sense could have prevented it.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Toro
And the bad guy is the protector who is protecting you from being raped again by the rapist.

Hilarious logic.

Mexico (that lost half of its territory to the US) and Ukraine have good reasons to fear America and Russia just like most countries that are neighbors to regional or global powers.

Latin American and Eastern European countries are welcome to build their own army, on their own dime, just like America and Russia did, to protect themselves against their powerful neighbors.

But if America and Russia's neighbors allow their countries to serve the interests of foreign powers, if they allow their territories to host american or russian military bases, if they become members of foreign hostile military alliances (either DE JURE or DE FACTO, either officially or unofficially), they immediately become an extension of american and russian territory, they become part of a global geopolitical conflict.

As such they become fair targets for american and russian bombs.

 

[para bellum]

Mexico (that lost half of its territory to the US) and Ukraine have good reasons to fear America and Russia just like most countries that are neighbors to regional or global powers.

Latin American and Eastern European countries are welcome to build their own army, on their own dime, just like America and Russia did, to protect themselves against their powerful neighbors.

But if America and Russia's neighbors allow their countries to serve the interests of foreign powers, if they allow their territories to host american or russian military bases, if they become members of foreign hostile military alliances (either DE JURE or DE FACTO, either officially or unofficially), they immediately become an extension of american and russian territory, they become part of a global geopolitical conflict.

As such they become fair targets for american and russian bombs.

I don't see the US's westward expansion in the 19th century as relevant. Something more contemporary:

Russia tried to put nuclear weapons in Cuba, and we almost went to war. We tried a half-assed coup in Cuba and failed. But we never invaded Cuba or bombed Havana to rubble, we've coexisted uncomfortably for the last 60 years.

Ukraine wasn't threatening Russia and Putin's back wasn't against a wall.

It's Russia that wants to eliminate Ukraine, and you guys are calling Ukraine the Nazis...

 

[Donald H]

I think you don’t understand ... that USA is much more powerful militarily (outside nukes where no one wins) and especially economically than Russia, and NATO is an additional plus against Putin. USSR crumbled because of mostly economic disadvantages. China is a more potent threat now.

Do you think Russia will also attack Finland or Sweden when they join NATO? USA will supply even more lethal weapons against Russia then.

I've posted a new thread on Scott Ritter's explanation of nearly all the answers and I find it pretty close to what I've been saying all along. However, I've learned a few facts that I was a bit off base on, from his explanations.

Take an hour to hear him. I can't waste time on people who are uninformed. You don't have to agree with Ritter but you have to at least understand some of the important details.

Nobdoy knows whether Russia will attack Finland or Sweden and we don't even know if they will want to join Nato. Ritter touches on the question and gives less than a direct answer.

 

[Donald H]

The fact that the SU - Russia, fighting the nazi aggression, ended up imposing a comunist tyranny on Eastern Europe for 50 years is not even open for discussion because it's pure european history.

All issues that surround that question on why the Soviet Union was formed, is also contained in Scott Ritter's comments.
He does a great job of clarifying one of the gray areas, which leads to an explanation on why Russia has moved against the Ukraine.

Inform yourself if you consider the topic to be worthy of discussion.

 

[José]

In 1983, America invaded Grenada, a godforsaken caribbean island that you need a magnifying glass to find on a map because of an airstrip!!!!

You heard it right, a miserable airstrip that wasn't even finished yet.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

US President Ronald Reagan stated that particularly worrying was the presence of Cuban construction workers and military personnel building a 10,000-foot (3,000 m) airstrip on Grenada.[40] Bishop had stated the purpose of the airstrip was to allow commercial jets to land, but some US military analysts argued that the only reason for constructing such a long and reinforced runway was so that it could be used by heavy military transport planes. The contractors, American and European companies, and the EEC, which provided partial funding, all claimed the airstrip did not have military capabilities.

Grenada - Wikipedia

Now the same people who applauded the invasion are telling Russia it's perfectly OK to have her borders surrounded by a military alliance four times the size of her army.

I gotta tell you...

Super patriotic american clowns give me homicidal tendencies.

 

[Ringo]

NATO must protect its nazi subordinates

 

[frigidweirdo]

NATO Planning Massive Military Buildup Along Russia's Border - News From Antiwar.com

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is in the middle of a "fundamental transformation" and planning a massive military buildup along Russian borders. Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said NATO will undergo a major "reset" and plans to put enough troops in states that border Russia to repel...

news.antiwar.com

The significance of this should be rather easy to understand. If the Buildup includes Nato military personnell, then Russia will be taking on and killing Nato's military, and that becomes the 'direct' war that has been avoided due to rules that were mutually agreed upon.
Or is this supposed to mean a massive buildup of Nato's weaponry, attended by Ukraine forces and others who are not fighting on behalf of any country?

Should have done this in January, might not be a war going on right now if they had.

 

[badger2]

Whore's Ecology: NATO

Russia warns of potential run-ins with NATO in Arctic

The growing activities of NATO in the north threatens security and stability of the whole Arctic region, a senior Russian diplomat has said

www.rt.com

 

[badger2]

NATO must protect its nazi subordinates

This punk was very likely born near Mezin.

 

[Ringo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/11/nato-ukraine-refugees-whiteness/