Next Move for the Democratic Party?

[candycorn]

Seems like it was the same story in 04…

They came back then. Not sure they can come back again. It’s a different, much more bitter nation. Creating optimism over an individual’s situation isn’t as important as “sticking it” to someone who supposedly did you wrong it seems.

The Democrats aren’t good at playing that game.

I don't think 2004 and 2016 have anything in common, other than superficial accidents. I don't think the Democrat brand is "out" in any way, other than wingnut wet dreams. Clinton won the popular vote, the House was basically unchanged and reflects nationwide gerrymandering, and the Senate remained essentially unchanged, largely reflecting incumbency success.

If anything, the question of greatest importance is whether both major parties have jumped the shark (at this point I think they both have), and whether they can maintain their shared position atop the false dilemma. Let's look at the Presidential elections this century. Bush, then Obama, now Trump. One dynastic figure, and two personality cults. Both parties have failed to offer anything of substance to the American people since the 20th century. It seems clear to me that our political parties, as they now stand, have rounded the same kind of corner as a large businesses that no longer give a shit about satisfying customers. They've so deeply inserted themselves into the market that they can treat the public as if they are our client.

Democrats and Republicans now account for less than half of all registered voters. If anything, I think we're primed to possibly see D-R paradigm be replaced in the next decade. If one goes, they'll both go.

Good point. Also one must remember that HRC was not supposed to win if history is any indicator.

I was jus saying that the next DNC President is probably going to be more like Mike Rowe than Mike Dukakis.

 

[candycorn]

Well, the first year is actually Obama’s fault. The 2nd year of the Presidency is actually when the new president can affect fiscal decisions.

really?

When did they finally stop blaming Bush for the mess Obama was in?

There are two things about that.

On one hand, you had a war going on that the new President was opposed to and wanted out of (since he never wanted to go in to start with). Mr. Trump will not have that.

On the other hand, there was a $700B bailout that was needed to save the economy right before the election



Politically it is not in your interest to acknowledge both of these (a war and a move that averted an economic collapse), I know.

But most people can look at these two extraordinary events (war is actually not a way of life) and realize there would be long lasting effects well into the next Presidency.

Again, Mr. Trump has none of this to contend with.

The stimulus was a failure. All of the Dem's policies on the economy have been failures. Trump has to contend with $20T in national debt and enormous deficits.

See, told ya. You can’t help but bullshit yourself…

Oh, and Obama had to contend with $12T in deficits….
According to the CEO of Ford, the GM Bailout was a success.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

“Deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney.

Try again.

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

 

[peach174]

really?

When did they finally stop blaming Bush for the mess Obama was in?

There are two things about that.

On one hand, you had a war going on that the new President was opposed to and wanted out of (since he never wanted to go in to start with). Mr. Trump will not have that.

On the other hand, there was a $700B bailout that was needed to save the economy right before the election



Politically it is not in your interest to acknowledge both of these (a war and a move that averted an economic collapse), I know.

But most people can look at these two extraordinary events (war is actually not a way of life) and realize there would be long lasting effects well into the next Presidency.

Again, Mr. Trump has none of this to contend with.

The stimulus was a failure. All of the Dem's policies on the economy have been failures. Trump has to contend with $20T in national debt and enormous deficits.

See, told ya. You can’t help but bullshit yourself…

Oh, and Obama had to contend with $12T in deficits….
According to the CEO of Ford, the GM Bailout was a success.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

“Deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney.

Try again.

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

 

[candycorn]

There are two things about that.

On one hand, you had a war going on that the new President was opposed to and wanted out of (since he never wanted to go in to start with). Mr. Trump will not have that.

On the other hand, there was a $700B bailout that was needed to save the economy right before the election



Politically it is not in your interest to acknowledge both of these (a war and a move that averted an economic collapse), I know.

But most people can look at these two extraordinary events (war is actually not a way of life) and realize there would be long lasting effects well into the next Presidency.

Again, Mr. Trump has none of this to contend with.

The stimulus was a failure. All of the Dem's policies on the economy have been failures. Trump has to contend with $20T in national debt and enormous deficits.

See, told ya. You can’t help but bullshit yourself…

Oh, and Obama had to contend with $12T in deficits….
According to the CEO of Ford, the GM Bailout was a success.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

“Deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney.

Try again.

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

 

[Wry Catcher]

The stimulus was a failure. All of the Dem's policies on the economy have been failures. Trump has to contend with $20T in national debt and enormous deficits.

See, told ya. You can’t help but bullshit yourself…

Oh, and Obama had to contend with $12T in deficits….
According to the CEO of Ford, the GM Bailout was a success.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

“Deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney.

Try again.

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

 

[Iceweasel]

See, told ya. You can’t help but bullshit yourself…

Oh, and Obama had to contend with $12T in deficits….
According to the CEO of Ford, the GM Bailout was a success.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

“Deficits don’t matter” Dick Cheney.

Try again.

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

 

[esthermoon]

They should reorganise their party and thinking about the next presidential election in 2020

 

[candycorn]

There were no 12T in deficits. You can't keep deficit and debt straight. I dont care what the CEO of Ford said. He isnt an economist. Economists understand it failed. Everything about Obama's administration was a failure, which is why Trump's mandate is simply to undo everything Obama did.

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

 

[candycorn]

They should reorganise their party and thinking about the next presidential election in 2020

I disagree.

If I were a democrat, I’d first try to craft a policy that starts to win at the lowest levels of government. Winning the Presidency would be great and it will paint over a lot of problems since there is only one President and when you’re occupying the Oval, you have a unique power. But laws and legislation are formed by the legislatures and Congress. That is where governing actually happens. That is where Democrats can make serious inroads with the American public.

 

[Iceweasel]

So the economists know more than the CEO’s all of the sudden? Much like the pollsters knew more than the voters…

Trump’s going to undo eery Obama did? He deported more illegal aliens than any other POTUS in history… How’s dementing the ACA going? Looks like he’s keeping some of that. he he he

It’s inconvenient for you to admit the truth but Obama did inherit an unpopular and costly war that wasn’t paid for and an economy in free fall thanks to 4 years of GOP controlling all 3 entities of law making and of course de-regulating everything.

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

 

[Iceweasel]

But laws and legislation are formed by the legislatures and Congress. That is where governing actually happens. That is where Democrats can make serious inroads with the American public.

They have. And America is sick of it. Run your cities into the dirt but leave the people alone.

 

[candycorn]

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

The governor runs the state education departments and boards of education. Each district is under them.

Therefore if the Kentucky legislature says you must take 4 years of latin to graduate, you take 4 years of latin; if the Texas Legislature says you must take 3 years of Science, you must take 3 years of science.

 

[candycorn]

But laws and legislation are formed by the legislatures and Congress. That is where governing actually happens. That is where Democrats can make serious inroads with the American public.

They have. And America is sick of it. Run your cities into the dirt but leave the people alone.

he he he…

Yes, they need to change.

 

[Iceweasel]

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

The governor runs the state education departments and boards of education. Each district is under them.

Therefore if the Kentucky legislature says you must take 4 years of latin to graduate, you take 4 years of latin; if the Texas Legislature says you must take 3 years of Science, you must take 3 years of science.

Sure, they can set standards but they don't run the classrooms. Liberals get blamed for focusing less on academics and more on social matters. The fact is the US is doing poorly compared to other nations and we spend more than anybody.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The gov. should never have started Freddy and Fannie Mac to begin with.
I'm getting sick and tired of the lies about this being all Repubs fault.
If the Dems and one or 2 progressive R's had not blocked the bills that BUSH JR. asked congress for 17 times in the comittee, it would have been discoverd before we had that meltdown. He tried to get them to do something about it. Dodd and Frank obstructed all untill the dems got control of the senate. Another lefty bill that needs to go.
Both parties were at fault.
The left would not allow any of those bills get out in order for congress to even vote on any of them.

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

It means ideology rules and pragmatism & humanity is out.

 

[Iceweasel]

Strange…from the last 8 years we’ve learned that the President gets 100% of the blame for everything

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

It means ideology rules and pragmatism & humanity is out.

The GOP turned our schools into 3rd world academic standards.

LOL

 

[Wry Catcher]

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

The governor runs the state education departments and boards of education. Each district is under them.

Therefore if the Kentucky legislature says you must take 4 years of latin to graduate, you take 4 years of latin; if the Texas Legislature says you must take 3 years of Science, you must take 3 years of science.

Sure, they can set standards but they don't run the classrooms. Liberals get blamed for focusing less on academics and more on social matters. The fact is the US is doing poorly compared to other nations and we spend more than anybody.

It is true the public education system is in need of reform, but to deny that "social matters" are not of value to our culture is wrong. We need to first define the problems, then honestly discuss solutions. Simply writing "aint' it awful" isn't helpful.

 

[Iceweasel]

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

The governor runs the state education departments and boards of education. Each district is under them.

Therefore if the Kentucky legislature says you must take 4 years of latin to graduate, you take 4 years of latin; if the Texas Legislature says you must take 3 years of Science, you must take 3 years of science.

Sure, they can set standards but they don't run the classrooms. Liberals get blamed for focusing less on academics and more on social matters. The fact is the US is doing poorly compared to other nations and we spend more than anybody.

It is true the public education system is in need of reform, but to deny that "social matters" are not of value to our culture is wrong. We need to first define the problems, then honestly discuss solutions. Simply writing "aint' it awful" isn't helpful.

It isn't helpful when you completely misrepresent people's words either.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Of course both parties are to blame, and off course members of the alt-right never admit to making a mistake, and most always point a finger at a Democrat, a liberal or a progressive when things go wrong. It is in their DNA, a closed mind allows no facts or reality to intrude on their beliefs.

You're accusing others of having a closed mind?

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

It means ideology rules and pragmatism & humanity is out.

The GOP turned our schools into 3rd world academic standards.

LOL

You asked: The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.[/QUOTE]

My response: "It means ideology rules and pragmatism & humanity is out" was in refernce to your phrase posted above. It had nothing to do with the GOP and Schools, and everything to do with the GOP voting in lockstep on other issues, i.e. "prisons, their parole boards".

The GOP cut to the bone parole and probation in favor of incarceration. That's a fact. I was there when the changes were made, and saw the consequences, fiscal, emotional and on the streets when we began to reform the Criminal Justice System (CJS).

The CJS - both Juvenile and Adult - needs real, practical reform an a thread on the issue is one more topic needing discussion.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Not my argument but when the GOP controls 30+ state legislatures, their prisons, their parole boards, their departments of education and has now for some time….and liberals get blamed for over-regulation, lax prosecution and the failing schools… in those states; what do you call it?

The GOP doesn't run schools and have no idea what the rest was supposed to mean.

The governor runs the state education departments and boards of education. Each district is under them.

Therefore if the Kentucky legislature says you must take 4 years of latin to graduate, you take 4 years of latin; if the Texas Legislature says you must take 3 years of Science, you must take 3 years of science.

Sure, they can set standards but they don't run the classrooms. Liberals get blamed for focusing less on academics and more on social matters. The fact is the US is doing poorly compared to other nations and we spend more than anybody.

It is true the public education system is in need of reform, but to deny that "social matters" are not of value to our culture is wrong. We need to first define the problems, then honestly discuss solutions. Simply writing "aint' it awful" isn't helpful.

It isn't helpful when you completely misrepresent people's words either.

I wasn't vetting your comments, I was responding to the general comment, "Liberals get blamed for focusing less on academics and more on social matters"

The public school readies, or should ready, every student to function in the diverse culture which exists in the US today. Getting along with others is the first step to instill in an already violent and divided nation. Do you agree?

Sexually transmitted disease, and unwanted pregnancies are a problem, providing Sex Ed. as part of a comprehensive, age appropriate, general curriculum in Health seems to be a hot stove issue, for me it is a common sense approach to these problems. Do you agree?