No fly lists

[Votto]

Are they Constitutional?

 

[Kosh]

Yes

The ACLU is seeking reform of this broken watchlisting system in a variety of ways. We filed a landmark challenge to the No Fly List in which a federal judge struck down the government’s redress process, ruling that it “falls far short of satisfying the requirements of due process” and is “wholly ineffective.” The ACLU continues to advocate for broad reform of the watchlisting system, consistent with the court’s ruling and the Constitution.

Watchlists

 

[Votto]

Yes

The ACLU is seeking reform of this broken watchlisting system in a variety of ways. We filed a landmark challenge to the No Fly List in which a federal judge struck down the government’s redress process, ruling that it “falls far short of satisfying the requirements of due process” and is “wholly ineffective.” The ACLU continues to advocate for broad reform of the watchlisting system, consistent with the court’s ruling and the Constitution.

Watchlists

Does the ACLU also oppose gun laws that restrict certain people from obtaining a firearm?

For example, is it OK to discriminate against someone who is "crazy"? Is it OK to discriminate against someone who has a criminal record? Is it OK to discriminate against someone who is suspected of having terrorist affiliations etc.?

To me, it is the same question. Should we give these people access to a deadly weapon?

 

[Kosh]

Yes

The ACLU is seeking reform of this broken watchlisting system in a variety of ways. We filed a landmark challenge to the No Fly List in which a federal judge struck down the government’s redress process, ruling that it “falls far short of satisfying the requirements of due process” and is “wholly ineffective.” The ACLU continues to advocate for broad reform of the watchlisting system, consistent with the court’s ruling and the Constitution.

Watchlists

Does the ACLU also oppose gun laws that restrict certain people from obtaining a firearm?

The ACLU is a another wing of the Democrat/far left party..

So NO!

Second Amendment

This should also provide some insight into the far left and how dangerous their religion is:

Democrats’ misleading claims about closing the no-fly list ‘loophole’

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Are they Constitutional?

No.

 

[flacaltenn]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The deal is -- the LIST probably is Constitutional.. BUT -- the procedures for folks to discover if they are on it and the procedures to get OFF of it -- are virtually non-existent. And THAT is a Constitutional no-no...

BIGGER QUESTION is --- Is the No-Fly list worth anymore than used toilet paper? It is RIDDLED with errors, wrong assumptions on names and other mistakes. AND --- the GOvt itself doesn't even seem to use it -- since it was recently discovered that 72 employees of the TSA were on the freakin No Fly List..

 

[flacaltenn]

NOTHING that incompetent and inaccurate should EVER BE used to deprive citizens of their rights and privileges..

 

[Kosh]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The ACLU is not the best bet, if they were they could have had it changed under the far left Obama Holder period with and EO..

Fact is this is constitutional, but just like any government program it was built broken!

Once you get on the list it is hard to get off, unless you are a senator or high roller..

The only way it can be fixed is via EO or Congress changing the laws, but the list existed long before 9/11..

If you understand the roots of the ACLU, no one other than far left drones would like them..

 

[flacaltenn]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The ACLU is not the best bet, if they were they could have had it changed under the far left Obama Holder period with and EO..

Fact is this is constitutional, but just like any government program it was built broken!

Once you get on the list it is hard to get off, unless you are a senator or high roller..

The only way it can be fixed is via EO or Congress changing the laws, but the list existed long before 9/11..

If you understand the roots of the ACLU, no one other than far left drones would like them..

Folks committed to fighting for the Constitution are pretty rare. So I side with the ACLU when they are actually not playing for donations from their lefty moneybags.. And a good percentage of the time -- they really ARE doing straight up defense of the Constitution.

 

[Kosh]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The ACLU is not the best bet, if they were they could have had it changed under the far left Obama Holder period with and EO..

Fact is this is constitutional, but just like any government program it was built broken!

Once you get on the list it is hard to get off, unless you are a senator or high roller..

The only way it can be fixed is via EO or Congress changing the laws, but the list existed long before 9/11..

If you understand the roots of the ACLU, no one other than far left drones would like them..

Folks committed to fighting for the Constitution are pretty rare. So I side with the ACLU when they are actually not playing for donations from their lefty moneybags.. And a good percentage of the time -- they really ARE doing straight up defense of the Constitution.

I have to claim that you are wrong!

Show where the ACLU has ever defended a gun owner in court..

 

[OKTexas]

Are they Constitutional?

Sure, if a judge puts you on it.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Or a bug zapper for that matter?

 

[Votto]

Are they Constitutional?

Sure, if a judge puts you on it.

How is it Constitutional to say I can't fly on a plane or obtain a weapon? What laws have I violated? If I'm a legal US citizen what right do they have to violate my rights?

 

[Votto]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The deal is -- the LIST probably is Constitutional.. BUT -- the procedures for folks to discover if they are on it and the procedures to get OFF of it -- are virtually non-existent. And THAT is a Constitutional no-no...

BIGGER QUESTION is --- Is the No-Fly list worth anymore than used toilet paper? It is RIDDLED with errors, wrong assumptions on names and other mistakes. AND --- the GOvt itself doesn't even seem to use it -- since it was recently discovered that 72 employees of the TSA were on the freakin No Fly List..

Ok then, how about a no drive list? How about a no sports arena list? How about a no bus list? We could do this all day to the point that people will have no rights at all. How is this Constitutional?

After Obama, I think there should be a no President list.

 

[OKTexas]

Are they Constitutional?

Sure, if a judge puts you on it.

How is it Constitutional to say I can't fly on a plane or obtain a weapon? What laws have I violated? If I'm a legal US citizen what right do they have to violate my rights?

Any right can be taken through due process, including your right to life, that's why I said only a judge can order it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Kosh is probably right here. And even tho he doesn't like the ACLU -- they are the best bet to get redress.

The deal is -- the LIST probably is Constitutional.. BUT -- the procedures for folks to discover if they are on it and the procedures to get OFF of it -- are virtually non-existent. And THAT is a Constitutional no-no...

BIGGER QUESTION is --- Is the No-Fly list worth anymore than used toilet paper? It is RIDDLED with errors, wrong assumptions on names and other mistakes. AND --- the GOvt itself doesn't even seem to use it -- since it was recently discovered that 72 employees of the TSA were on the freakin No Fly List..

Ok then, how about a no drive list? How about a no sports arena list? How about a no bus list? We could do this all day to the point that people will have no rights at all. How is this Constitutional?

After Obama, I think there should be a no President list.

There kinda is a 'no-drive' list. It's done explicitly by REVOKING a privilege and openly available to LawEnf everywhere. I like the No-Prez list. Would cut the number of podiums almost in half for the debates.

I THINK -- I don't know -- that the No Fly list is a subset of the "official" Terrorist Watch List" ..

Which supposedly is an internal list of SUSPECTS that have no criminal charges filed against them. (Maybe a few have warrants -- but I suspect those would be on a real CRIMINAL list.)

So a list of SUSPECTS is not un-Constitutional UNTIL you start using it to revoke "privileges".. And when those privileges involve freedom of motion -- then it SHOULD be Unconstitutional if the subjects are not ALERTED of their status or have no clear right of redress.