no tax return, no place on ballot

[daveman]

If they aren't going to pay 70%, then his plan can't get funded now can it?

Currently Medicare costs us about 750 billion dollars per year, and only 15% of our population is on it. That means it would cost us over six times that amount every year for everybody to be covered. And as Congressman Delaney pointed out, many of the hospitals would close and many doctors would leave the industry.

What you don't understand is that the government only pays for part of the cost for care of their patients. My experience is about 80%. They make up the loss through private pay and insurance payments. This is why when you see facilities close up, it's usually in poorer neighborhoods where most of the patients are government clients. There is no way for them to recoup those government losses.

So with Bernie's plan for starters, it would cost us 4.5 trillion a year which is more than what we spend on everything now, and we're adding to the debt because of it. To keep those hospitals and doctors we currently have, it would cost us an extra 20%. That puts us well over 5 trillion a year, and we still need to fund all our other social programs and defense of this country.

Now tell me that's going to work.

It can get funded because he would close loopholes and deductions to make it work. Either way, the effective tax rate is the 50’s was higher and the world didn’t collapse did it?

Why would the doctors quit? Why would the hospitals close? Based on what? You also forget that we pay per capita more than any nation in the world on earth on healthcare. A socialized system would save us money.

I just explained why hospitals would close and doctors would quit. No business can operate at a loss or even break even for that matter. Do you think an American wants to spend 8 years of their life racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans to become a physician only to work until 50 years old before it's paid off?

There is only one way to approach the healthcare problem, and that is analyze why it's so expensive in the first place. I guarantee you government is mostly responsible for that. After we greatly reduce the cost for healthcare, then let's figure out a way to pay for it. But this approach of paying for something that's out of control cost-wise is pure stupidity. That's why Commie Care is such a failure.

Now as to the tax rate. Yes, people paid higher taxes, but there were not many places left to go. Overseas travel was dangerous and expensive. Communications were antiquated and long distance was expensive, unreliable and the sound quality was miserable.

Today a business owner can pack up and move out of the country with no problem. He can keep track of his investments up to the minute on his or her cell phone. He can have corporate meetings on Skype or other means of virtual gatherings. With radar and satellites, overseas travel has never been safer.

See, what you don’t get is, 1st world countries in Europe have great socialist healthcare systems and there’s no critical shortage of doctors. You act as though our system is the best and when really it is the worst among developed nations. And I’ll tell you why it is worst and the most expensive: it’s a ridiculous for-profit system. People pay for prescription drugs at sky rocket rates. The same drugs in other countries cost a fraction of the same price. That shit is deliberate. Lobbyists made it illegal for Medicare to negotiate lower drug prices.

I don’t understand what point you’re making here. Regardless of the limitations at the time, rich people paid more in effective taxes and the middle class thrived.

I was not alive in the 50's, I was born in 1960, and let me tell you, nobody was thriving back then.

There is no critical shortage of doctors in socialized healthcare? Why don't you visit one country north where people wait forever to have serious medical issues addressed?

Being a truck driver in Cleveland, I often rub elbows with Canadian drivers. While waiting to get loaded or unloaded, we often talk.

I try to bring up the healthcare situation here and there. The younger drivers tell me they love their system. The older drivers tell me to keep what we have, or we will be sorry if in any way duplicate their system.

Show me one country where you think the healthcare system is perfect, and I'll provide several articles saying it's not so, because every country in the world has healthcare issues including the US. Ours may be different in the way of problems, but don't kid yourself thinking they don't have problems as well.

So you want government to control prescription prices? Great idea.

Hillary's Vaccine Shortage

And the other point I want to make is that laws should be put in place that put caps on how high drug prices are.

Hey, genius...what do you think pays for the research for new drugs?

Socialists are profoundly ignorant of basic economics. I wouldn't trust a socialist to run a Little League bake sale without fucking it up.

 

[Dekster]

This will be interesting. Obviously a state can pass such a law. I think it's fair to want a candidate to be transparent. I'm not sure the courts will allow it.

I have been back and forth in this. I used to think that they cannot add to the requirements, but then I started thinking about how different states do it so many different ways to qualify for the ballot, it is possible the SCOTUS would do like with the gerrymandering issue and punt it back to the states to decide as a purely political question.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It is still a requirement that is not in the Constitution.

As for Tx, who knows. We will have to see how the courts rule on this one. I suspect it will be shot down

The signature requirement does not disqualify a party's nominee. It's not a political act of desperation.

And any idiot that's read the Constitution knows it could only be upheld in a corrupt court.

The signature requirement disqualifies everyone that does not meet it. Where does the Constitution say the states can impose a signature requirement?

Please like the section of the Constitution you think this would violate.

We both know you're desperate because Democrats have nobody near Trump's stature.

But you're just being pitiful now.

Please like the section of the Constitution you think this would violate.

 

[pknopp]

Try and take Medicare away.

Oh, you mean the Medicare that people are forced to pay for?

Did you have a point?

I made it. Bernie is simply expanding on that.

At gunpoint. Right, Comrade?

Gets old. You live here and you do pay your taxes. Internet bravado is a waste of time.

This may come as a shock to you, but the government wastes billions every year. I can spend my money more wisely than the government can.

Build me a bridge.

 

[pknopp]

He isn't telling anyone how to live. He's trying to see that we catch up to the rest of the first world countries and see that everyone can afford health care.

Oh, so saying "You have to pay to take care of other people" isn't telling anyone else how they have to live?

It's going to happen. Just a matter of time. You can pretend it's still the 19th century if you wish.

And you can pretend unicorns will fart healthcare. What you want is a failure.

I can tell you've never been treated by the VA.

There are occasions an airplane falls from the sky. That does not mean airflight is a failure. We need to hold those who run the VA to a different standard than what we do. I will not argue otherwise but then again, there should be far fewer being treated.

There should be fewer being treated...but you want to put the whole country under the VA or similar government-run healthcare?

Bernie lied to you. And you just ate it up.

People love Medicare. Go ahead, try and end it.

 

[Ame®icano]

sounds good to me -

Trump’s tax returns required under new California election law

What sounds even better is, you don't pay federal income taxes, you can vote.
Here is another one, you don't register for selective services and draft, you can't vote.

 

[daveman]

And the other point I want to make is that laws should be put in place that put caps on how high drug prices are.

We wouldn't have to if some of the 10 years worth of red tape is cut out so the cost to drug companies to get a drug to market in the U.S. is not so motherfucking high.

So many drugs get final approval after 10 years of FDA-mandated testing and the pharmacy companies STILL get sued into exorbitant coats, making the prices go up. Does the FDA do anything at all? You see class-action suits all the time for prescription drugs that the useless FDA held up for a decade.

Just cut the useless, wasteful FDA out of the process and let civil litigation be the motivator.

Either way, price controls NEVER work out. You can't artificially manipulate pricing and expect no serious negative unintended consequences.


.

There will never be tort reform until Democrats have no power in government. Because right now, trial lawyers own the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party values their donors more than they do the working class and the poor.

 

[daveman]

Democrats be like... if you don't streak down 5th ave, you can't be on the ballot

and that is what is going to happen next. the problem with actions like this is while they may seem like a good sneaky move to get at someone, you're simply opening up the door to allowing other rules you may not like to be on the ballot.

what if texas says you must be born in a southern state to be on their ballot? what if florida says you must have $10,000,000 in a florida bank account to be on their ballot? what if NY says you must open up the books on any charity you fund for an independent investigation to be on the ballot?

so sure - giggle away but this is exactly the bite you in the ass move the left loves to do. like the biden rule where you can't select a SCOTUS in your lame duck year. how'd that turn out?

so while all these people are making rules to favor ONE SIDE, great. but they're not the only side that can do that and the other side will follow suit and wheee - we can continue to burn Rome down.

Democrats make stupid rules...then whine like little bitches when those rules are applied to them.

 

[daveman]

This will be interesting. Obviously a state can pass such a law. I think it's fair to want a candidate to be transparent. I'm not sure the courts will allow it.

No, states cannot pass a law that goes against the Constitution.

This is stupid in it's face. No serious person that's read the Constitution believes this will pass muster.

You spout the constitution. Where in it does it specifically cover this? Just throwing that out there may sound good in your head but to the rest of us it sounds like throwing crap at a wall and hoping something sticks.

Excellent slogan.

VOTE DEMOCRATIC 2020 -- WE'RE JUST THROWING CRAP AT THE WALL AND HOPING SOMETHING STICKS

 

[daveman]

And so if every state is allowed to add their own requirements of the Constitution, then the Republican can't run in those states and he's not deprived of the constitutional right to run for President?

California did not change the constitutional requirements for being president nor did they add any candidate requirements for listing on the ballot of the presidential general election.

They added requirements for all presidential and state gubernatorial candidates seeking to be listed on state primary ballots. The state does nothing with presidential primary results accept publish them. It is up to the political parties to use those as they sees fit.

What happens in California is not going have any effect on the outcome of the presidential race. Trump people have written off California just as they did in 2016.

That is not the point. The point is what they are doing is totally unconstitutional. If Trump allows them to get away with this because it's meaningless, then what's next?

What's next is that if CA gets away with it, some commie in a swing state might do the same. You have to stop anti-Americans in their track at the first sign of trouble, or like any other child, they will advance to the next step.

If anyone or any state disagrees or does something that Trump disagrees with then they are a commie. Sounds right to me. That is, if I were a card carrying McCarthy from the 50s person. You keep buying that snake oil Trump is selling. Hope the gout gets better.

No, I consider a commie one who is anti-American, or a Democrat....same thing really. If a commie country has any elections at all, it's totally rigged so they have no real opposition, or their opposition has zero chance at winning.

On one side you hypocrites say Trump needs to show his returns because it's customary. Well so is the way we run our elections, customary. We all played by the same rules with nobody trying to find ways to cheat the system. But now that Democrats are so butt hurt over Trump, they are seeking ways to do just that.

The Corporate America has taken over so well that it's come down to this now. We need to remove the Corporate stanglehold that Corporate America has on our Government. When a Candidate has to show his tax returns for President (or for any elected Federal Job for that matter) then we get to see if they will be will to work for the people instead of Corporate America. Tell me how else we can get that results? Or do you believe that it's a good thing for Corporate America to completely dominate our Federal Government and all it's decisions.

Oh, then you agree Obamacare was bad for America.

 

[daveman]

Yes when she runs for president she will be required to release her tax returns. Just like everyone else who runs for president.

Except of course, trump. Even though he said he would release his tax returns he has not and has fought to keep it secret.

It's as legitimate of a question to ask of everyone. This is why nothing gets done. Everyone is willing to overlook in their politician what they will not overlook in someone else's.

I don't think so.

What exactly do you think would get done, if Trump released his tax returns? Nothing. His tax returns would simply be a political football to kick around by the Democrats, and he knows that.

Even more ironic, having that political football to kick around, would serve as a distraction from getting stuff done. People would be screaming back and fourth over his tax return, and accomplishing nothing.

And while you say it is a legitimate question to ask of everyone.... why? What business is it of yours? Are you suggesting that there is something illegal in his tax return, that magically the IRS which prosecutes people every single year on this, was giving him a free pass on? Do you have any evidence to warrant that accusation? If so, file it in court, to have his tax return made public.

But of course there is nothing to suggest that Trump has done anything wrong.

So why is someone's tax return your business? Why is someone who has done nothing wrong, and no evidence of doing anything wrong, to have his tax returns looked through?

Tax returns contain important information about a candidate that voters need to know, particularly in today's world of false news, twitter attacks, and an Internet which amplifies all false claims.

A candidate’s tax returns include information about what a candidate owns, which can let voters know of possible conflicts of interest and whether there are entanglements with foreign businesses and foreign governments. They reveal whether a candidate owes money and to whom.

So tell us why any voter would need to know these things. We don't. What we need to know is outlined in the US Constitution. That's why they wrote the requirements. Also, tell me how many tax returns that you filed that stated what you own. The closest you'd come is a house or more, and that's only if you have a mortgage and wrote off the interest.

Entanglements with foreign governments or businesses? Didi you read up on Joe Biden and his crooked son the last six months? Tell me we will get to know all about that in his tax returns.

The problem here is if a Republican were low enough to create similar requirements such as revealing college transcripts or original birth certificates before Hussein ran, you on the left would have been rioting. Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

So all you need to know about a candidate is their age and they are a native born US citizen? That must be because your candidates never lie about themselves. They don't boast and exaggerate their achievements, hide their dealing with foreign governments, mobsters, and shady businesses. They tell you all you need to know.

Here in America, our justice system is based on the notion that people are innocent until proven guilty.

The Democratic Party sure did flush that down the toilet, didn't they? Now it's guilty until proven innocent.

How very Soviet.

 

[daveman]

Oh, you mean the Medicare that people are forced to pay for?

Did you have a point?

I made it. Bernie is simply expanding on that.

At gunpoint. Right, Comrade?

Gets old. You live here and you do pay your taxes. Internet bravado is a waste of time.

This may come as a shock to you, but the government wastes billions every year. I can spend my money more wisely than the government can.

Build me a bridge.

Pay for your own healthcare.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Democrats be like... if you don't streak down 5th ave, you can't be on the ballot

and that is what is going to happen next. the problem with actions like this is while they may seem like a good sneaky move to get at someone, you're simply opening up the door to allowing other rules you may not like to be on the ballot.

what if texas says you must be born in a southern state to be on their ballot? what if florida says you must have $10,000,000 in a florida bank account to be on their ballot? what if NY says you must open up the books on any charity you fund for an independent investigation to be on the ballot?

so sure - giggle away but this is exactly the bite you in the ass move the left loves to do. like the biden rule where you can't select a SCOTUS in your lame duck year. how'd that turn out?

so while all these people are making rules to favor ONE SIDE, great. but they're not the only side that can do that and the other side will follow suit and wheee - we can continue to burn Rome down.

Or my personal favorite, Dems removing the Filibuster for lower judicial appointments, and then screaming bloody murder when Republicans removed it for the SC. The Dems broke the dam, the republicans just widened the breach.

like i said - it may work THIS ONE TIME, but i have to believe if trump had tax issues the IRS would nail him to the wall. i messed up on my investment income 2 years in a row when i started doing my own taxes and it was costly. but it was my fault. they find it and they miss nothing.

all the taxes thing is for is a PR stunt to give them something to bitch about. since trump either gives them something to bitch about or they simply make something up on a daily basis, the best the taxes would provide is comic relief for a week or so and then be a non-issue.

but suddenly, the states now have the power to get "cute" with a national election. their own arrogance and ignorance shows off their lack of understanding where that road will go.

if california can make rules, so can texas and every other state out there.

we continue to de-evolve.

Democrats love creating problems like this. It costs God knows how many millions of dollars to fight this through the court system only to eventually be overturned. The Democrats know this quite well, but hell, it's not their money, so why should they care?

These political stunts are getting too costly. Get rid of all Democrats in power and we can end these little antics of theirs.

And we can get rid of the Corporate total control of the government as well where the phrase "For the People, by the People" have become a laughing stock. Figure out how to do that and you can have my support.

 

[pknopp]

I made it. Bernie is simply expanding on that.

At gunpoint. Right, Comrade?

Gets old. You live here and you do pay your taxes. Internet bravado is a waste of time.

This may come as a shock to you, but the government wastes billions every year. I can spend my money more wisely than the government can.

Build me a bridge.

Pay for your own healthcare.

I do.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

According to the Constitution.

Show Me

Already did. I don't keep repeating myself over and over because you are too lazy to read or you are playing some kind of game. But I'll give you a hint. It's called "Due Process".

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't think so.

What exactly do you think would get done, if Trump released his tax returns? Nothing. His tax returns would simply be a political football to kick around by the Democrats, and he knows that.

My reply was in discussion about why this would not apply to other politicians if people were wanting transparency. But since you said what you did, I will once again note that Trump said more than once he would release them. Why Lie?

Even more ironic, having that political football to kick around, would serve as a distraction from getting stuff done. People would be screaming back and fourth over his tax return, and accomplishing nothing.

He isn't getting stuff done.

And while you say it is a legitimate question to ask of everyone.... why? What business is it of yours? Are you suggesting that there is something illegal in his tax return, that magically the IRS which prosecutes people every single year on this, was giving him a free pass on? Do you have any evidence to warrant that accusation? If so, file it in court, to have his tax return made public.

But of course there is nothing to suggest that Trump has done anything wrong.

So why is someone's tax return your business? Why is someone who has done nothing wrong, and no evidence of doing anything wrong, to have his tax returns looked through?

Because he said he would.

Politicians lie all the time. All of them. Why did Hillary lie about classified information on a private email server? Why did she lie about a obscure video on the internet, causing a spontaneous riot the killed a US diplomat?

I refused to vote for her because she did lie all the time. Again, I supported Sanders. Can you show where he lies "all the time"?

I'll take Trump changing his mind on releasing a tax return, over bold faced lies about national security and the murdering of a diplomat, any day.

He lied. The reason he had no problem doing so is he knew that there would be plenty of those like yourself that would cover for them. That's why so many have no problem lying.

You are talking about Trump changing his mind on a tax return, over bold faced lies about very important issues, to... I don't want to release my tax return now.

No I am not. You are trying to spin it that way. Trump has lied about all kinds of things also. I consider health care a very important aspect also. I'm still waiting for the great plan he had that we all were going to love. I'm still waiting on Mexico paying for the wall.

That's not even really a lie. I wager at the time he said he would release his tax return, and then after realized the Democraps would use it as a political football, and decided not to.

Big deal. If you can prove wrong doing, then do so. Until then, people can change their minds on things. You have never said you would do X, and then later changed your mind? Why is that ok for you, but not Trump? Or do you expect me to believe you have never changed your mind on anything in your life?

Trump lies constantly. Even when it is shown to him that he said something he claims he never said he lies about it. Trump is very much like Hillary. They will lie even when the truth is a better answer.

I'm not entirely sure if Sanders lies or not. I think he does, because he says things that are clearly garbage, like we can get the rich to pay for all our free stuff.

He never said that. That's an example of you lying.

NO more free rides.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Democrats be like... if you don't streak down 5th ave, you can't be on the ballot

and that is what is going to happen next. the problem with actions like this is while they may seem like a good sneaky move to get at someone, you're simply opening up the door to allowing other rules you may not like to be on the ballot.

what if texas says you must be born in a southern state to be on their ballot? what if florida says you must have $10,000,000 in a florida bank account to be on their ballot? what if NY says you must open up the books on any charity you fund for an independent investigation to be on the ballot?

so sure - giggle away but this is exactly the bite you in the ass move the left loves to do. like the biden rule where you can't select a SCOTUS in your lame duck year. how'd that turn out?

so while all these people are making rules to favor ONE SIDE, great. but they're not the only side that can do that and the other side will follow suit and wheee - we can continue to burn Rome down.

Or my personal favorite, Dems removing the Filibuster for lower judicial appointments, and then screaming bloody murder when Republicans removed it for the SC. The Dems broke the dam, the republicans just widened the breach.

like i said - it may work THIS ONE TIME, but i have to believe if trump had tax issues the IRS would nail him to the wall. i messed up on my investment income 2 years in a row when i started doing my own taxes and it was costly. but it was my fault. they find it and they miss nothing.

all the taxes thing is for is a PR stunt to give them something to bitch about. since trump either gives them something to bitch about or they simply make something up on a daily basis, the best the taxes would provide is comic relief for a week or so and then be a non-issue.

but suddenly, the states now have the power to get "cute" with a national election. their own arrogance and ignorance shows off their lack of understanding where that road will go.

if california can make rules, so can texas and every other state out there.

we continue to de-evolve.

Democrats love creating problems like this. It costs God knows how many millions of dollars to fight this through the court system only to eventually be overturned. The Democrats know this quite well, but hell, it's not their money, so why should they care?

These political stunts are getting too costly. Get rid of all Democrats in power and we can end these little antics of theirs.

And we can get rid of the Corporate total control of the government as well where the phrase "For the People, by the People" have become a laughing stock. Figure out how to do that and you can have my support.

Prior to Trump, we had the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. DumBama and many other Presidents saddled them with more choking regulations than you can shake a stick at.

There is no corporate control of our government because corporations are too small of a vote to cater to. It's all in your head. If corporations have control of our government, they are doing a pretty lousy job at it.

 

[daveman]

Oh, so saying "You have to pay to take care of other people" isn't telling anyone else how they have to live?

It's going to happen. Just a matter of time. You can pretend it's still the 19th century if you wish.

And you can pretend unicorns will fart healthcare. What you want is a failure.

I can tell you've never been treated by the VA.

There are occasions an airplane falls from the sky. That does not mean airflight is a failure. We need to hold those who run the VA to a different standard than what we do. I will not argue otherwise but then again, there should be far fewer being treated.

There should be fewer being treated...but you want to put the whole country under the VA or similar government-run healthcare?

Bernie lied to you. And you just ate it up.

People love Medicare. Go ahead, try and end it.

People hate Communism. Go ahead, try and force it on them.

 

[mikegriffith1]

How about no photo ID, no vote? If you want to buy beer, buy cigarettes, buy an airline ticket, or buy a train ticket, you have to show a photo ID. If it's not "oppressive" to require a photo ID for these items, how in the world is it "oppressive" to require a photo ID to vote?

 

[daveman]

At gunpoint. Right, Comrade?

Gets old. You live here and you do pay your taxes. Internet bravado is a waste of time.

This may come as a shock to you, but the government wastes billions every year. I can spend my money more wisely than the government can.

Build me a bridge.

Pay for your own healthcare.

I do.

Do you really? Everything is out-of-pocket? No insurance?