JOKER96BRAVO
Senior Member
- Aug 13, 2004
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"Necessity never made a good bargain." - Ben Franklinjillian said:"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin
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"Necessity never made a good bargain." - Ben Franklinjillian said:"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin
rtwngAvngr said:THis is not a search or a seizure.
5stringJeff said:
The federal government is searching through 200 million citizens' phone records to look for call patterns that would lead to terrorist activity. How one can not call it a search is beyond me.
jillian said:"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin
rtwngAvngr said:Yes. They're searching in databases, which are not the property of the citizenry.
GotZoom said:The quote is actually:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I would say that stopping a murder, pedophile, or terrorist attack is a bit more than temporary safety.
He also said:
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
GotZoom said:Giving up one or two rights to help ensure safety and security does not the downfall of society make.
We give up rights every day.
rtwngAvngr said:I think they should stipulate that the only crimes that can be prosecuted from this data are security related. Libs still wouldnt go for it. Helping the terrorists is their goal.
jillian said:And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.
jillian said:I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.
Most importantly, what good will the information do if the government has it to use at it's whim, but doesn't use it to actually stop terrorism? The FBI had info about all of the 9/11 hijackers. It was never put to good use.
And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.
This is true, and the phone companies are giving THEIR data to NSA.rtwngAvngr said:There's no constitutional crisis here. Citizens don't OWN entries in databases with their phone number.
The government failing to use the information properly is a different issue. You're really stretching now.
jillian said:I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.
Most importantly, what good will the information do if the government has it to use at it's whim, but doesn't use it to actually stop terrorism? The FBI had info about all of the 9/11 hijackers. It was never put to good use.
And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.
jillian said:I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.
jillian said:"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin
ScreamingEagle said:I wonder how the government knows who is a terrorist on the other end of the phone line...as in the international calls.
ScreamingEagle said:I wonder how the government knows who is a terrorist on the other end of the phone line...as in the international calls.