Nuclear deal between Iran, world powers - has been reached

[BlueGin]

You all don't know the details yet, and still you are bellyaching like small children.

Have you ever considered researching information like real adults and then discussing it, instead?

That could be a refreshing change of pace for you....

Nothing I have read about this deal states that Iran will not get an atomic bomb

And you are naively ignoring the fact that Iran has a history of not honoring treaties

I am ignoring nothing. I wrote explicitly in the OP that many details are to follow.

Why do RWNJs hate actual information, as in, details?

Why to LWMORONS believe everything the fucking government tells them?

They don't... They are just trying to convince you.

 

[rhodescholar]

Iran does their attacks by proxy

Notice how the far left dung like this will fiercely attack the US for overthrowing regimes, using death squads, etc., but are utterly silent when iran does the same or worse in many other countries. These same pieces of shit are also quite silent about russia maintaining actual troops in 21 other countries for decades.

That's the real problem with the left as far as I can tell, they are too fucking stupid to comprehend their own hypocrisy.

 

[rhodescholar]

Well, this time you obviously don't have the Soviet Union doing the Job for you in the first place.

So you're admitting that diplomacy did not work to prevent WW2, good to see the left come clean - even if that was not your intention, but the brainpower of the left is low so it was more of an accident than an admission.

 

[peach174]

Iran does their attacks by proxy

Notice how the far left dung like this will fiercel attack the US for overthrowing regimes, using death squads, etc., but are utterly silent when iran does the same or worse in many other countries. These same pieces of shit are silent about russia maintaining actual troops in 21 other countries for decades.

That's the real problem with the left as far as I can tell, they are too fucking stupid to comprehend their own hypocrisy.

To me it seems that they can't put the whole picture together.
They just have one issue at a time that they pick on and seem unable to connect all of the dots.

 

[rhodescholar]

To me it seems that they can't put the whole picture together.
They just have one issue at a time that they pick on and seem unable to connect all of the dots.

Limited brainpower wattage is the sad cause of such issues. Its like trying to surf the internet on an apple IIe with 4K of RAM, there's just not sufficient intelligence to make it happen.

 

[peach174]

To me it seems that they can't put the whole picture together.
They just have one issue at a time that they pick on and seem unable to connect all of the dots.

Limited brainpower wattage is the sad cause of such issues. Its like trying to surf the internet on an apple IIe with 4K of RAM, there's just not sufficient intelligence to make it happen.

I always say that they have a couple of wirers that need connecting.

 

[pwjohn]

57%, destroyed by treaty.Wikipedia › wiki › Russia_and_weapons...
Mobile-friendly - In addition to nuclear weapons, Russia declared an arsenal of 39,967 tons of chemical weapons in 1997, of which 57% have been destroyed. ... to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, with Russia the successor to the ...

Scumbag, did russia not break the '87 treaty? Did they not break their word in the Budapest memorandum? Did assad use chemical weapons after agreeing not to?

Deflect all you want chimp, but those things did happen.

Hey dirtbag,

What's up with all the name calling?

 

[indiajo]

So you're admitting that diplomacy did not work to prevent WW2, good to see the left come clean - even if that was not your intention, but the brainpower of the left is low so it was more of an accident than an admission.

I am more and more doubtful about the human capability to embrace the content of an even short sentence. But quite sure about the uncompromising talent to swirl it around in their head until it is forged into the exact opposite.

1. I am not left. I am an egoistic, conservative, atheist German asshole.
2. Diplomacy did of course not work to prevent WW2. It was not meant to do that.
It was meant to start it.

To avoid the egg and hen discussion I skip WW1.
Now, in very short sentences:
1. Versailles was the revenge of the french for 1871. The Brit were satisfied to get the German fleet, still thinking they were an Empire and keeping their blissful ignorance against the "Continent".
The US had learned that with a big industrial infrastructure that cannot be theatened by anyone.(look on a globe) they can spit on everybody.
3. After the German recovery from the beginning of the 30's onwards, the Brits faced to lose their superiority. The Empire crumbled, the again uprising German competition was threatening.
(Always remember, there was no Germany before 1871, and the french threat under Napoleon was used by the Brits to keep the "Continent" in uproar and contnue to rule the world.
4.Therefore the Brits tried to get Stalin into an allance to attack Germany. (this is well documented).
This failed eventually, because Stalin had his own plans. He assumed correctly that Hitler would run into a new war with the Brits and French and hoped to then take over the blood drained Europe in a swing.
5. Poland was the key for the Brits and French. Actually a rogue state in the 20's, it assaulted Belarus, the Ukraine, and massacred hundreds of thousands of people there, including minorities in Poland itself., including the German one.
They had practicaly annected Danzig, violating the Versailles treaty and mandate of the League of Nations.
Backed up by the mutual aid pact of Brits and French, Poland provoked Germany over years, culminating in mobilizing their military in March 1939. (Remember, the German attack was September 1939). Before that there were several official threats to invade Berlin.
The diplomatic correspondence between London and Warsaw the days before the attack are well documented and proof of the trap, also the attempts to prevent that over the Swedish envoy in Berlin.
Actually the Brits and French had dramatically overrated the military capacity of Poland, and calculated they could simply occupy a weakened Germany.
This was not that far from the truth, the German military almost run out of ammunition and supplies in Poland. One week more and they would have been done.
And despite te declaration of war of the Brits and French to Germany, there was no military on the french border, Hitler had played vabanque.

So much for the diplomacy to prevent WW2. Actually here was none, except from the German side.
The Nazis were absolutely aware that they would need quite some years more to gear up for a war, which they most possibly intended to start. At least against Stalins Soviet Union, because this showdown was inevitable. No further proof needed, I think.


1939 was too early, and they run into the traps set out by the Brits and French.
For the results: The Brits lost their complete empire. The French their colonies. Both are third class powers today and economic midgets. The US, left aside the Pacific, feasted on the remains of Europe and crowned themselves the new Emperor.

And this last sentence is the header, under which each and every occurance in the world since 1945 has to be seen. Everything else are details.

 

[Mertex]

Of course.

Because they have their own, and it's very good.

I can't help it that you get erroneous information....when you only watch Faux News and they don't tell you the truth that's what you come up with. That seems like a personal problem. And, post a link about your second lie....which you either made up yourself or got it from Faux News, too.

Since September 2013, more than 10 million individuals in the United States have signed up for health insuranceunder the Affordable Care Act according to a survey conducted by the Urban Institute. Of those 10 million people, almost 70 percent used federal or health insurance exchange sites, known as marketplaces, to purchase plans. The total number of uninsured Americans dropped from 17.7 percent to 12.4 percent this year, which indicates that Obamacare is working to lower the number of people who lack insurance.
2015 OEP Enrollment Numbers - Obamacare.net



Yeah, it is....so sorry that it didn't come out the way you conservatives wanted it to....must suck to have so many failures in such a short time.


But less than 10 months after major media outlets were hosting debates with headlines like "Is the Affordable Care Act Beyond Repair?", Obama's signature accomplishment is succeeding beyond all reasonable expectation.
The Obamacare train keeps not wrecking - Vox



Yeah.....and we had Doofus G W Bush in between for 8 years......remember?

The only liars are the Republicans.......and there are so many gullible people like you, who even though given the facts, continue to believe the lie. I think you just want to believe it so bad, you don't care if your own mind tells you it can't be....

Just a little reminder here.
President Obama - "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it,"
The liars are in both parties.

You're an idiot. The plans that some people wanted to keep didn't come up to the lowest plan provided by Obamacare....that's why they couldn't keep them.
Too bad some of them were too stupid to realize they were getting a much better deal and were whining they wanted to keep their worthless plans. Talk about stupid.

Employers dropped their plans, 6 million lost theirs and will continue to do so in 2017 when it goes into the full effect.
I also don't know of any low income person that can afford to pay out of pocket deductibles starting at 3,000.00 and up.

You can say whatever you want.......the truth is, people are now better off with Obamacare. Some, like you, will continue to deny it and whine. Get some cheese.



Far too often before the Affordable Care Act came into effect, health insurance did not provide peace of mind - it provided anxiety, panic, and dread. Up to 129 million Americans - that's nearly one in two people - could be discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer, or for that matter pregnancy or even something as ridiculous as acne.

And for the rest of Americans, they knew that coming down with any illness could mark them with that scarlet letter, where they could be unable to get affordable coverage, be trapped in a job, or even be dropped from their coverage because they got sick and have nowhere to turn. As the Vice President said in a speech to this morning, every family was one job loss or one illness away from seeing the worst of the insurance system - "There but for the grace of God."

Health Coverage Before the ACA And Why All Americans Are Better Off Now Insurance News Net

I'm not better off.
We now have to pay a deductible when we didn't have to before.
That is very hard to do on fixed incomes.

You probably are and don't know it. You may have to pay a deductible, but you probably have better coverage...of course, most conservatives would rather have no insurance and would still claim that was better than Obamacare.

 

[GHook93]

A nuke deal with the Charles Manson family allowing them to have nukes.
That is so Obama.

I am going to wait for some details, but here is some of what I have read and heard. Some good and some bad.

Here is what conservative townhall listed as some aspects (none of these aspects are not to like from a conservative stand point I might add.

Obama Touts Iran Deal Says Inspectors Will Have Access to Key Facilities - Katie Pavlich
Some key parts of the deal according to the President:
-Iran will not produce weapons grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium
-Iran will remove 2/3 of its centerfuges
-Iran won't use advanced centerfuges
-Iran will not build any new heavy water reactors for the next 15 years
-Iran will get rid of 98 percent of it's enriched uranium stock pile
-Nothing in the deal extends past 15 years

Obama said that if Iran doesn't hold up its end of the deal, sanctions can be snapped back. Critics argue "snapping back" sanctions is impossible and takes a panel and time to happen

Now Obama has been a proven liar. He just doesn't care, because he knows that 90% of US voters won't do their homework anyways. Therefore what he said today might be a lie! That said, if what he stated above is turn, then the list isn't that bad.

But then I also heard on the radio that the US must alert Iran 14 days prior to an inspection (just enough time to clean up or move anything they don't want the inspectors to do) and Iran has the option of denying each and every inspection request. That is not good. How will anything on the list stated above be verified?

None of it is good because Iran has no intention of honoring any deal of any sort with an entity it wants only to destroy. This is where obama does his Carter impression. Carter thought making nuke deals with the USSR was an accomplishment but they honored no deals either.

How come conservatives know everything? They all claimed the United States was going to go to hell in a basket when Obamacare was passed.......here we are....Obamacare doing quite well......and we're not in hell. How do you know that Iran has no intention of honoring any deal? I'm sure they don't want the sanctions....but then, you know best....

Interesting you claim conservatives know everything and then you claim a blatant lie about Obamacare. It might not have been the total disaster envisioned, but it's a failed policy. Health insurance premiums, deductibles and copays have skyrocketed. There are still tens of millions of Americans without coverage. The vast majority pf enrollees selected the über high deductible bronze and silver plans which are really just insurance in name only, it is coverage to avoid the penalty. The mass amount of subsidies are going to the these horrible bronze and silver plans. Obamacare is and utter failure and a very expensive one. It was built on a pack of lies and the dishonorable democrats will continue to lie about it's success.

 

[rhodescholar]

What's up with all the name calling?

What do you want, turd?

I am a throwback to when this forum was filled with men, not the girlymen who make up large parts of its current membership like you.

Those familiar with me from years past know how I have long dealt with racist trash; they deservedly receive the most ferocious of lashings from me. Those days gone by, when Gunny ran this place....

 

[Shrimpbox]

It is a fantasy to assume that this isn't going to be a constant problem. Eventually Iran will be using the media to convince the world that the United States is being evil for trying to keep them from having their nukes. Eventually they'll get their nukes with the blessing of the United Nations.....and then Israel will be forced to attack them, Saudi Arabia will have to get their own nukes......so-on and so-forth.

You liberals all assume that everyone will be good and do what they promised. Obama doesn't even know what his own administration is doing. How is he going to make sure that Iran does what they're supposed to?

You fucking idiots are so damned stupid.

You're just scratching the surface here...I am beginning to think leftists were put on this earth for the sole purpose of fucking things up to give rightwingers something to do, like fixing their fuckups.

Bwahahaha....you've been iin a coma too long. It's the Republicans - ala George W Bush - that fucked things up. And because of the obstinate Republicans in Congress, it took Obama longer to get the nation back on it's feet again.......but he was able to do it in spite of the idiots you all sent to Washington. Try to listen to real news instead of just Faux News and maybe you'll find out what is really going on in the world.


Here....educate yourself, although it may be too late for someone as dumb as you. America has always done better under Democratic presidents.......they're the ones that have to clean up the fuckups the Republicans leave behind.

Bush vs. Obama: Private Sector Job Creation

Bush vs. Obama: Unemployment Rate

Bush vs. Obama: Corporate Profits

Bush vs. Obama on the Economy In 3 Simple Charts UPDATED


America Is Definitely Better Off Under Obama - US News

Mertex ,I know you are off your meds but your graphs are misleading to put it lightly. Some real facts. In 01 the unemployment rate was 4.20. In 08 it was an average of 5.0 so through almost all of George bushes terms the rate was lower than almost any Obama had and that includes dealing with 911 and the Clinton recession. You love to jigger the graphs to selectively pick the time lines. Never in the history of our country have so many able,bodied people who would like to work been unable to find work.

These are the graphs that tell the real truth about the Obama economic recovery and real job growth compared to bush. As far as real full time jobs go, Obama sucks.
Ratio of Part-Time Employed Remains Higher Than the Pre-Recession Levels - dshort - Advisor Perspectives

And the way I really know how you are off your feed is for you to post a graph about how well corporate profits are doing under Obama. Yeah he is really looking out for the middle class. Obama like Hilary is a pawn of big business as much or more so than bush ever was. He is such a con artist.

Three strikes, you're out!

 

[Shrimpbox]

US Unemployment Rate by Year

 

[TooTall]

Anyone who thinks Iran will abide by any agreement is a few cards short of a full deck.

Iran has never abided by any agreement its made. Only and idiot would think that this time they will.

Oh wait. I forgot. DC abounds with idiots and the biggest one sits in the White House. Never mind.

Know-nothing neo-con goobers said the same thing about Reagan's nuclear arms treaty with Russia. Reagan needed moderate Republicans and the Democratic party to go with it because, predictably, our right-wing warmongers and other chickenhawks never waste an opportunity to be outraged over a prospect for world peace.

The deal isn't rooted in trust; it's rooted in verifications. Now there actually are real guidelines in writing and should Iran not abide by them, the P5+1 countries actually have international leverage to take action instead of the idiotic Republican stance of just standing around beating our chests without any kind of supporting evidence.

I am not sure that China and Russia in the P5+1 would agree with you.

 

[peach174]

Just a little reminder here.
President Obama - "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it,"
The liars are in both parties.

You're an idiot. The plans that some people wanted to keep didn't come up to the lowest plan provided by Obamacare....that's why they couldn't keep them.
Too bad some of them were too stupid to realize they were getting a much better deal and were whining they wanted to keep their worthless plans. Talk about stupid.

Employers dropped their plans, 6 million lost theirs and will continue to do so in 2017 when it goes into the full effect.
I also don't know of any low income person that can afford to pay out of pocket deductibles starting at 3,000.00 and up.

You can say whatever you want.......the truth is, people are now better off with Obamacare. Some, like you, will continue to deny it and whine. Get some cheese.



Far too often before the Affordable Care Act came into effect, health insurance did not provide peace of mind - it provided anxiety, panic, and dread. Up to 129 million Americans - that's nearly one in two people - could be discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer, or for that matter pregnancy or even something as ridiculous as acne.

And for the rest of Americans, they knew that coming down with any illness could mark them with that scarlet letter, where they could be unable to get affordable coverage, be trapped in a job, or even be dropped from their coverage because they got sick and have nowhere to turn. As the Vice President said in a speech to this morning, every family was one job loss or one illness away from seeing the worst of the insurance system - "There but for the grace of God."

Health Coverage Before the ACA And Why All Americans Are Better Off Now Insurance News Net

I'm not better off.
We now have to pay a deductible when we didn't have to before.
That is very hard to do on fixed incomes.

You probably are and don't know it. You may have to pay a deductible, but you probably have better coverage...of course, most conservatives would rather have no insurance and would still claim that was better than Obamacare.

We have the same coverage as before.
We have to set aside an extra 59.00 a month for the yearly deductible. We never had to do that before.
The ones who have AHCA that start at 3,000.00, comes to 250.00 a month, I don't see how anyone can do that on a fixed income.
This is why people are calling it the affordable health care act.
What good is a low monthly premiums for them when they can't afford to pay for the high deductibles?

 

[mudwhistle]

You're an idiot. The plans that some people wanted to keep didn't come up to the lowest plan provided by Obamacare....that's why they couldn't keep them.
Too bad some of them were too stupid to realize they were getting a much better deal and were whining they wanted to keep their worthless plans. Talk about stupid.

Employers dropped their plans, 6 million lost theirs and will continue to do so in 2017 when it goes into the full effect.
I also don't know of any low income person that can afford to pay out of pocket deductibles starting at 3,000.00 and up.

You can say whatever you want.......the truth is, people are now better off with Obamacare. Some, like you, will continue to deny it and whine. Get some cheese.



Far too often before the Affordable Care Act came into effect, health insurance did not provide peace of mind - it provided anxiety, panic, and dread. Up to 129 million Americans - that's nearly one in two people - could be discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer, or for that matter pregnancy or even something as ridiculous as acne.

And for the rest of Americans, they knew that coming down with any illness could mark them with that scarlet letter, where they could be unable to get affordable coverage, be trapped in a job, or even be dropped from their coverage because they got sick and have nowhere to turn. As the Vice President said in a speech to this morning, every family was one job loss or one illness away from seeing the worst of the insurance system - "There but for the grace of God."

Health Coverage Before the ACA And Why All Americans Are Better Off Now Insurance News Net

I'm not better off.
We now have to pay a deductible when we didn't have to before.
That is very hard to do on fixed incomes.

You probably are and don't know it. You may have to pay a deductible, but you probably have better coverage...of course, most conservatives would rather have no insurance and would still claim that was better than Obamacare.

We have the same coverage as before.
We have to set aside an extra 59.00 a month for the yearly deductible. We never had to do that before.
The ones who have AHCA that start at 3,000.00, comes to 250.00 a month, I don't see how anyone can do that on a fixed income.
This is why people are calling it the affordable health care act.
What good is a low monthly premiums for them when they can't afford to pay for the high deductibles?

Democrat like calling their programs something it's not......like Affordable.

Since 2009 my health insurance premiums have tripled. My coverage has decreased. But I can get a sex-change if I need it.

 

[Mertex]

Employers dropped their plans, 6 million lost theirs and will continue to do so in 2017 when it goes into the full effect.
I also don't know of any low income person that can afford to pay out of pocket deductibles starting at 3,000.00 and up.

You can say whatever you want.......the truth is, people are now better off with Obamacare. Some, like you, will continue to deny it and whine. Get some cheese.



Far too often before the Affordable Care Act came into effect, health insurance did not provide peace of mind - it provided anxiety, panic, and dread. Up to 129 million Americans - that's nearly one in two people - could be discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer, or for that matter pregnancy or even something as ridiculous as acne.

And for the rest of Americans, they knew that coming down with any illness could mark them with that scarlet letter, where they could be unable to get affordable coverage, be trapped in a job, or even be dropped from their coverage because they got sick and have nowhere to turn. As the Vice President said in a speech to this morning, every family was one job loss or one illness away from seeing the worst of the insurance system - "There but for the grace of God."

Health Coverage Before the ACA And Why All Americans Are Better Off Now Insurance News Net

I'm not better off.
We now have to pay a deductible when we didn't have to before.
That is very hard to do on fixed incomes.

You probably are and don't know it. You may have to pay a deductible, but you probably have better coverage...of course, most conservatives would rather have no insurance and would still claim that was better than Obamacare.

We have the same coverage as before.
We have to set aside an extra 59.00 a month for the yearly deductible. We never had to do that before.
The ones who have AHCA that start at 3,000.00, comes to 250.00 a month, I don't see how anyone can do that on a fixed income.
This is why people are calling it the affordable health care act.
What good is a low monthly premiums for them when they can't afford to pay for the high deductibles?

Democrat like calling their programs something it's not......like Affordable.

Maybe what you want makes it not so affordable. For a lot of people, that couldn't afford it before, they now can. Most conservatives don't care about other people, they are just concerned about what affects them, or how they see things, so I can see where you are coming from on this. The fact that insurance companies can no longer use "pre-existing" condition to block certain people from getting insurance is a big improvement...not to mention being able to keep your college kids on your plan till they are 26.

Since 2009 my health insurance premiums have tripled. My coverage has decreased. But I can get a sex-change if I need it.

I'm sure that in some states, the health insurance premiums have gone up, but I'm not so sure I buy the fact that your coverage has decreased. Maybe you should get a sex-change....then your reasoning would improve.

 

[Derideo_Te]

To be clear, I haven't clocked in totally for this deal yet, but even a 15 year delay is worth it.

What I have said is that for those who actually READ the deal, there is no doubt that we, the western allies, get the better part of the bargain. Here are the five most critical points:

1.) Iran gives up all hopes of getting, building or buying any nuclear weapons.
2.) Iran gives up 97% of it's enriched Uranium.
3.) When enrichment does begin again, then only in Natanz, and they won't be allowed to enrich up to weapons grade, just enough to power nuclear reactors. This automatically means that Ispahan, which was the greater, much more secret threat, anyway, must be closed. This is the part of the deal that most people won't see right away, because they are not looking, but it is a HUGE win for the West. I cannot overstate how important this point is.

4.) WE lift the sanctions, but on a long, painful timetable for the Iranskis. The lifting includes unfreezing bank accounts, making loans possible again and allowing a slow normalization of free trade. And the lifting of sanctions only happens as the Iranians are PROVING to us that they are not seeking a nuclear weapon.

5.) The Iranians are subject to the humiliation of inspections anytime we want them to happen. With this deal, they have given up some of their sovereignty.

And if Iran does lie and gets a bomb, then we can still bomb them out of existence, anyway. And Iran knows this very well.

As a Jew who feels VERY strongly about Israel and am 100% for Israel's existence and continued flourishing on our wonderful planet, I cannot see a thing in this deal not worth trying. On the surface, this deal looks exceedingly good. Jews should, in my opinion, be breathing a sigh of relief.

But don't take my word for it. Read the entire deal and marvel at how direct and detailed it is. Also notice the order of importance in the deal.

The very first point is that Iran completely gives up all attempts to get nuclear weapons in any way, shape or form, which is EXACTLY what we have been striving for. Everything else pretty much logically flows from that point.

One more detail, important to me. Obama only deserves partial credit for this, for the 10-year long negotiations, done painstakingly behind the scenes, are the work of people who were first sent by Bush, Blair and Schröder, among others, to do this. This has been a LONG process, something that we instant-tea Americans do not see. So, the deal is historic, but I, as a Democrat, give Obama himself only partial credit. He has only been one piece of many of this very intricate puzzle. One President alone does not make deals like this happen. And George W. Bush (43) also deserves credit AND my respect for having been willing to get the ball rolling on this. Credit where credit is due. Remember, this is not just an American-Iranian deal. This is a deal among at least 8 nations, if I recall correctly. And the entire UN also has had a say in this.

If the GOP candidates are smart (which they are not), then they will actually read the treaty (deal) before screaming at the top of their lungs.

I am no fan of Iran and Khomenei can go to hell, for all I care. But I see no reason to wage war against the Iranian people, and let's face it: Iran just blinked.

Derideo_Te Mertex Grandma Luddly Neddite

If the extremist rightwingers were smart they would be claiming credit for Bush jr's role in getting this deal started.

But instead they are screeching like simians. Even Jeb is whining and this was the deal his own brother set out to achieve.

Partisan politics getting in the way of a safer world for all of us.

 

[pwjohn]

What's up with all the name calling?

What do you want, turd?

I am a throwback to when this forum was filled with men, not the girlymen who make up large parts of its current membership like you.

Those familiar with me from years past know how I have long dealt with racist trash; they deservedly receive the most ferocious of lashings from me. Those days gone by, when Gunny ran this place....

You say you're a throwback to when this board was covered up by "girlymen" like you? Whatever you say bub.

 

[Vigilante]