Nuclear meltdown in Japan reactor?

[Annie]

ANNIE, I just checked google news and every third article says that the disaster is not averted, merely that the immediate risk of the explosion is averted.

Meanwhile three plants are widening evacuation perimeters. Two plants still have no cooling, the japanese nuclear oversight committee says one reactor has a breach in the containment vessel leaking cesium and iodine and the risk of a meltdown is still real. In fact some article say it is happening now.

The attempt to use saltwater as a last resort to cool the reactors is telling because the plants will have to be decommissioned due to corrosion once the reaction is halted.

The news is mostly served to avoid panic.

The use of seawater would indeed require these units to be decomissioned. Seawater is incredibly corrosive, especially when elevated in temperature like this.

This, if true, would indicate that they have basically given up efforts to maintain the reactors in some sort of working order for future repair or use.

If you look at the wikipedia article, it appears that the units in question were due for decommissioning anyway, with replacement by more modern units. It is yet to be seen if these units will now be placed into service. I would think they would, with added saftey features learned from this event.

Ya think? Let's see, the containment building blown. Some leakage. Going to need to start over, in the meantime, let's keep the damage to minimum.

Sounds right to me.

 

[martybegan]

It strikes me as odd that a mere 10 months after the BP "disaster" forced the world to reconsider the risks of deep crust oil extraction a nuclear emergency in Japan threatens to force a reconsideration of our nuclear power platform.

My heart goes out to the Japanese. Their emergency services are strained to the limit, the nuclear emergency could not have happened at a worse moment.

Hopefully the seawater/boric acid scheme will work, if not start learning to spell Chernobyl.

I dont think this could be like chernobyl. There the explosion happened DURING a SCRAM, ( SCRAM that didnt finish due to the reactor starting to tear itself apart prior to SCRAM completion)

You also had a graphite fire a chernobyl which added most of the radioactivity spewed into the atmosphere. The BWR used in Japan doesnt have any graphite.

Gotta love them sodium cooled reactors and half-assed construction.

I think the RBMK reactor still used water for cooling, it just used graphite for neutron moderation.

RBMK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ravi]

Front page Yahoo:

Blast at Japan nuke plant; thousands missing - Yahoo! News

Love the headline. They make it look like the blast is directly related to the missing people. Assholes.

Yeah...I guess, if you don't understand what a semi-colon is...they really should make an effort to dumb down the news.

 

[Big Fitz]

Front page Yahoo:

Blast at Japan nuke plant; thousands missing - Yahoo! News

Love the headline. They make it look like the blast is directly related to the missing people. Assholes.

Yeah...I guess, if you don't understand what a semi-colon is...they really should make an effort to dumb down the news.

Need a Midol? Or are we just snapping at anyone nowadays? I made an accurate statement. If you skimmed the article, it very much looks contextually like the blast caused 1000's of people to go missing. Just because you know the context does not change the misleading aspect of the article's title.

 

[Ravi]

I clicked on your link, Fitzie, and the headline was this:

For battered Japan, a new threat: nuclear meltdown



Maybe YOU need a midol, not me?

 

[Big Fitz]

I clicked on your link, Fitzie, and the headline was this:

For battered Japan, a new threat: nuclear meltdown



Maybe YOU need a midol, not me?

was someone elses link I quoted.

I'm not the one snapping at fingers here like I've been watching you in other threads.

Have a drink, relax, pop a midol and stay away from people for a few days maybe?

Don't worry about me. I can condescend with the best of them.

 

[rdean]

Wasn't it Nixon who signed the EPA into existance? he want a liberal, he was a pragmatist.

The other advantage we have is realtively low population concentration.

I agree with alot of the environmental regulations out there, however, the liberals in the past have done thier job, the liberals of today are trying to bastardize the regulations that were set up, using them to eliminate industries they dont like, rather than regulate them in a way that minimizes thier impact.

How can you make such a broad statement without a single example? Besides, there are no "regulations" that a conservative will agree with. Look at what they have done to OSHA and the EPA and Wall Street.

It just a broad as your original statement saying liberals were responsible for our pristine abe beautiful country. One shouldnt use more significant figures than provided by the original data. You didnt provide any examples either.

I consider myself conservative, and I agree with alot of OSHA and EPA regs. What I do not agree with is how the organziations have been perverted from thier original goals to basically lawsuit generating plants, with the rules no longer written by engineers and scientists to protect things, but instead by lawyers and burecrats to create lawsuits and endless regulations that do nothing but add paperwork.

Still no example.

Besides, right wingers have no respect for "engineers and scientists" if the right wingers on the USMB are any indication, and they are.

Scientists: Bush Distorts Science

The Union of Concerned Scientists, an independent organization, also issued a 37-page report, "Scientific Integrity in Policymaking," detailing the accusations. The statement and the report both accuse the Bush administration of distorting and suppressing findings that contradict administration policies, stacking panels with like-minded and underqualified scientists with ties to industry, and eliminating some advisory committees altogether.

Culture: Scientists and Bush administration at odds - US News and World Report

Bush administration accused of doctoring scientists' reports | Environment | The Guardian

===========================

How many USMB members have said similar statements to: Education is just a piece of paper, scientists sit back and collect government money for doing nothing, people that are over educated have no common sense, liberals have taken over science and that's why there are no more inventions and discoveries, and on and on. The "anti science" comments are endless.

And still, right wingers insist more than 6% of scientists are Republican. I'm sure it's less.

 

[polarbear]

They have completely lost the cooling towers. Unable to stop the heating now.

Evacuated to a radius of 10 miles, and expanding as fast as they can.

It isn't good.

All this reactor melt down hype is going to look in a few days from now just as stupid as the 10 meter tsunami which was supposed to annihilate the west coast.

Reactors that could "melt down" have been de-comissioned for over 30 Years or have been updated to use a sub critical mass fuel, just like this one @ Fukushima Daiichi
Most of You don`t even know the difference between weapons grade an fuel grade fission fuel....and believe there might even be a "nuclear explosion".
But You`re all instant "Wikipedia Experts"... man all these Internet forums are pathetic, this one is no exception after all!

I don`t know what kind of garbage news sources You guys read and quote. That crap is no better than reading the "national Enquirer".

Cooling is not even a do or die situation with these types of reactors, it just speed the fuel cooling process up which would proceed without it also, only slower than desired!

Just form where do You guys get all these fair tales from how a modern reactor works?

Here read something not as retarded as this "Green Peace"-"Sierra Club"-"Al Gore Global warming"..."Yahoo News"...etc etc crap.. :

BBC News - Uncertainty surrounds Japan's nuclear picture

Of course next Month when it`s all in the past and the world did not end, none of You want to be reminded of the absolutely ridiculous statement so many of you are making here today

 

[skeptic]

There are now 6 plants that have lost cooling capacity.

Reactors that could "melt down" have been de-comissioned for over 30 Years or have been updated to use a sub critical mass fuel, just like this one @ Fukushima Daiichi
Most of You don`t even know the difference between weapons grade an fuel grade fission fuel....

And yet scores of experts ranging from the IAEA to specialists in the US and Japanese nuclear energy industry are currently not sure whether a meltdown has already occurred in the very plant you mention.

Here are a few thousand articles that just don't agree with you: Meltdown - Google News

 

[skookerasbil]

They have completely lost the cooling towers. Unable to stop the heating now.

Evacuated to a radius of 10 miles, and expanding as fast as they can.

It isn't good.

All this reactor melt down hype is going to look in a few days from now just as stupid as the 10 meter tsunami which was supposed to annihilate the west coast.

Reactors that could "melt down" have been de-comissioned for over 30 Years or have been updated to use a sub critical mass fuel, just like this one @ Fukushima Daiichi
Most of You don`t even know the difference between weapons grade an fuel grade fission fuel....and believe there might even be a "nuclear explosion".
But You`re all instant "Wikipedia Experts"... man all these Internet forums are pathetic, this one is no exception after all!

I don`t know what kind of garbage news sources You guys read and quote. That crap is no better than reading the "national Enquirer".

Cooling is not even a do or die situation with these types of reactors, it just speed the fuel cooling process up which would proceed without it also, only slower than desired!

Just form where do You guys get all these fair tales from how a modern reactor works?

Here read something not as retarded as this "Green Peace"-"Sierra Club"-"Al Gore Global warming"..."Yahoo News"...etc etc crap.. :

BBC News - Uncertainty surrounds Japan's nuclear picture

Of course next Month when it`s all in the past and the world did not end, none of You want to be reminded of the absolutely ridiculous statement so many of you are making here today

Polar........you should know by now..........the k00ks on the board would gladly buy a bag of dog doo for $1,000 if it was packaged just right. If its hysterical..............they buy.


Just take a gandor over and check out the total post counts of idiots like Ravi, Rightwinger and Dean. Now tell me these people have any social connections beyond their PC.. And you wonder why they are fcukking k00ks??

 

[Ravi]

I clicked on your link, Fitzie, and the headline was this:

For battered Japan, a new threat: nuclear meltdown



Maybe YOU need a midol, not me?

I can condescend with the best of them.

Yeah, I've noticed. Pretty soon I'm going to start negging you for hating on women. Which is kind of sad.

Regardless, your linky poo did not back you up.

 

[Mini 14]

They have completely lost the cooling towers. Unable to stop the heating now.

Evacuated to a radius of 10 miles, and expanding as fast as they can.

It isn't good.

All this reactor melt down hype is going to look in a few days from now just as stupid as the 10 meter tsunami which was supposed to annihilate the west coast.

Reactors that could "melt down" have been de-comissioned for over 30 Years or have been updated to use a sub critical mass fuel, just like this one @ Fukushima Daiichi
Most of You don`t even know the difference between weapons grade an fuel grade fission fuel....and believe there might even be a "nuclear explosion".
But You`re all instant "Wikipedia Experts"... man all these Internet forums are pathetic, this one is no exception after all!

I don`t know what kind of garbage news sources You guys read and quote. That crap is no better than reading the "national Enquirer".

Cooling is not even a do or die situation with these types of reactors, it just speed the fuel cooling process up which would proceed without it also, only slower than desired!

Just form where do You guys get all these fair tales from how a modern reactor works?

Here read something not as retarded as this "Green Peace"-"Sierra Club"-"Al Gore Global warming"..."Yahoo News"...etc etc crap.. :

BBC News - Uncertainty surrounds Japan's nuclear picture

Of course next Month when it`s all in the past and the world did not end, none of You want to be reminded of the absolutely ridiculous statement so many of you are making here today

Polar, please expound. I've always found your knowledge of Science to be dead on, and I admitted, I'm no expert on nuclear power.

The original post was early this morning, and I was relaying what was being broadcast on the news (CNN and Fox). The Japs were pretty worked up over it, and seem to still be.

What's the rub?

TIA

 

[Big Fitz]

I clicked on your link, Fitzie, and the headline was this:

For battered Japan, a new threat: nuclear meltdown



Maybe YOU need a midol, not me?

I can condescend with the best of them.

Yeah, I've noticed. Pretty soon I'm going to start negging you for hating on women. Which is kind of sad.

Regardless, your linky poo did not back you up.

yeah, negging people when your rep is turned off. Coward. And I'm not hating on women... just you. Just a personal touch to let you know I care.

 

[waltky]

Sky ain't fallin' after all...

Japan earthquake: Officials say nuclear catastrophe averted
March 12, 2011 - Fears of a nuclear meltdown in Japan have subsided after a reactor that was damaged in Friday’s devastating earthquake reportedly emerged intact from an explosion.

A day after the country was thrown into chaos by a fierce tsunami triggered by the largest earthquake in Japan’s history, the country was, for a few terrifying hours, bracing itself for a possible nuclear catastrophe. Television cameras captured the moment that smoke poured from what at first appeared to be one of four reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, located 150 miles north of Tokyo.

After a few nerve-wracking hours, however, the government and the plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power, said the damage had been confined to the walls and roof surrounding the reactor, sparing its metal casing. The chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, told a televised press conference that radiation around the plant had, in fact, started to decrease.

A “tiny” amount of radiation had leaked earlier in the day when officials attempted to relieve pressure inside the reactor. “We have confirmed that the walls of this building were what exploded, and not the reactor’s container,” Edano said, adding, “There was no large amount of radiation leakage outside. At this point, there has been no major change to the level of radiation leakage outside, so we'd like everyone to respond calmly.”

Some exposure to radiation

See also:

Reports: 9,500 Missing in Japan Coastal Town
Mar 12, 2011 - As emergency responders made their way today into the hardest-hit coastal villages of Japan, the country's Kyodo News Agency reports that 9,500 people are unaccounted for in Minamisanriku -- roughly half the town's population.

The town, located along the Pacific Ocean on the northeast coast of Japan, has a population of 17,000 residents. Japan Self-Defense Forces are trying to help local authorities find residents, Japanese public broadcasting station NHK reported. So far, they've only been able to confirm that about 7,500 residents were successfully evacuated to dozens of shelters after the massive earthquake and tsunami, NHK reported.

Even before rescuers reached the hardest-hit areas, NHK reported stories of devastation from the towns and villages along Japan's northeastern coast affected by the quake and its aftershocks. In Sendai, the largest nearby city, police said between 200 and 300 bodies were found along the coast. Many more are believed to have been buried in the rubble or washed out with the waves.

Military helicopters grabbed survivors from rooftops and streets were littered with remnants of the destruction. The U.S. agreed to send helicopters from Okinawa to assist rescue efforts. Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan said more than 3,000 people have been rescued, Kyodo News Agency reported. "We'd first like to focus on saving lives and secondly the comfort of the evacuees," Kan said. "There will be many resources that will be needed for this evacuation process."

Source

 

[skeptic]

Partial meltdown likely under way at power plant, Japanese official says

By Steven Mufson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 12, 2011; 10:33 PM

A partial meltdown is likely under way at one nuclear power plant affected by Friday's earthquake, according to Japan's top government official, the Associated Press reports.

This has been reported all day long by hundreds and hundreds of media sources. I can't believe ya'll are so resistant to finding it.

Tokyo Electric said it had also vented or planned to vent steam and gas containing small amounts of radioactivity from seven of its reactor units. The company said that one employee, who had been working inside a reactor building, had been hospitalized for radiation exposure.

While Japanese authorities tried to calm citizens, they also began evacuating more than 200,000 residents from a 12.5-mile radius around two nuclear power complexes, made preparations to distribute potassium iodide pills, and warned people in the vicinity to stay inside and cover their mouths if they ventured outdoors. Federal safety agency officials said that as many as 160 people had been exposed to radiation from the plants.

"Only the gravest danger would justify an evacuation at such a moment," said Peter Bradford, a former commissioner at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1 is one of the oldest operating nuclear plants in Japan, turning 40 years old on March 26. NISA, the country's regulatory authority for the sector, licenses reactors to operate for 40 years - meaning that Unit 1 was scheduled to be taken offline this month. It is unclear whether NISA had planned to extend the reactor's license.

There are 23 reactors in the United States with the same design as Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1.

Experts said that the decision to pump seawater into the unit was a recognition that the elaborate system of valves, pumps and pipes, and the layers of steel and concrete, might not be enough to guarantee that the nuclear facility could avoid a disaster of Chernobyl proportions.

The water and boric acid would absorb neutrons, Tokyo Electric said. But experts said it would also make it unlikely that the plant would operate again.

Partial meltdown likely under way at power plant, Japanese official says

 

[dilloduck]

Partial meltdown likely under way at power plant, Japanese official says

By Steven Mufson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 12, 2011; 10:33 PM

A partial meltdown is likely under way at one nuclear power plant affected by Friday's earthquake, according to Japan's top government official, the Associated Press reports.

This has been reported all day long by hundreds and hundreds of media sources. I can't believe ya'll are so resistant to finding it.

Tokyo Electric said it had also vented or planned to vent steam and gas containing small amounts of radioactivity from seven of its reactor units. The company said that one employee, who had been working inside a reactor building, had been hospitalized for radiation exposure.

While Japanese authorities tried to calm citizens, they also began evacuating more than 200,000 residents from a 12.5-mile radius around two nuclear power complexes, made preparations to distribute potassium iodide pills, and warned people in the vicinity to stay inside and cover their mouths if they ventured outdoors. Federal safety agency officials said that as many as 160 people had been exposed to radiation from the plants.

"Only the gravest danger would justify an evacuation at such a moment," said Peter Bradford, a former commissioner at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1 is one of the oldest operating nuclear plants in Japan, turning 40 years old on March 26. NISA, the country's regulatory authority for the sector, licenses reactors to operate for 40 years - meaning that Unit 1 was scheduled to be taken offline this month. It is unclear whether NISA had planned to extend the reactor's license.

There are 23 reactors in the United States with the same design as Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1.

Experts said that the decision to pump seawater into the unit was a recognition that the elaborate system of valves, pumps and pipes, and the layers of steel and concrete, might not be enough to guarantee that the nuclear facility could avoid a disaster of Chernobyl proportions.

The water and boric acid would absorb neutrons, Tokyo Electric said. But experts said it would also make it unlikely that the plant would operate again.

Partial meltdown likely under way at power plant, Japanese official says

So do we run or what ?

 

[Mini 14]

So do we run or what ?

I don't know either.

I just bought some silver on line and poured myself some bourbon.

I'm hoping that stops it.

 

[skeptic]

So do we run or what ?

if you are in the effected prefecta you run.

They have already evacuated 200,000 people in the midst of a vast national emergency. Does that sound like they are just being cautious?

 

[dilloduck]

So do we run or what ?

I don't know either.

I just bought some silver on line and poured myself some bourbon.

I'm hoping that stops it.

we could get shit faced and argue the technical terms of a "meltdown" until you passed out and then I'd swipe your silver !

 

[skeptic]

This series of coolant failures will have the same chilling effect on nuclear power as the BP Macondo spill had on deep water drilling.

The US halted nuclear electrical generation construction after the 3 mile island partial meltdown.

We are getting backed into a corner.