Number of guns in society falling sharply

[Uncensored2008]

Good catch...I did wonder if Uncensored could really be right in claiming four times as many suicides, but I didn't think to check.

Saigon; why is the suicide rate so high in Finland? 16.8 per hundred thousand. The USA is at 12.0

What is it that makes life not worth living for so many in your socialist paradise?

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

Regardless, one thing is clear - the METHOD of suicide has ZERO impact on the act. Those who wish to kill themselves, kill themselves.

Actually no - because the 'success' rate of suicide gun is vastly higher than other methods.

Thus guns do enable suicides, and in societies which remove guns, we also see suicide rates drop accordingly, as in Australia.

 

[Saigon]

Good catch...I did wonder if Uncensored could really be right in claiming four times as many suicides, but I didn't think to check.

Saigon; why is the suicide rate so high in Finland? 16.8 per hundred thousand. The USA is at 12.0

What is it that makes life not worth living for so many in your socialist paradise?

Um....maybe it is the CONSERVATIVE goverment?

Honestly, where the hell do people get this shit about socialist governments from?!

Finns are very melancholy people. In that sense a little like Slavs....people here are very dour, very introspective....though the suicide rate drop is nothing like that it was when I was at school. Finland was worst in the world then, but psychologists in schools have done amazing work. We also have very high gun ownership, remember.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No....its basic statistics. There is nothing emotional about it.

The US rate of gun-related homicide is 10.3. Many of those murders occur in the home.

Utterly false. Very few of those murders occur in the home. Nearly all of them occur when one black youth shoots another black youth.

You know this, yet prevaricate in hopes of stirring emotion.

The Finnish rate is 3.64.

Thus you are in about three times as much danger as I am.

Utterly false, and an appeal to emotion.

Of course it would be more accurate to compare only homicides which take place in homes, but I don't have those at hand.

The anti-civil rights advocates are very careful not to publish those.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually no - because the 'success' rate of suicide gun is vastly higher than other methods.

Thus guns do enable suicides, and in societies which remove guns, we also see suicide rates drop accordingly, as in Australia.

Ah, that's why Finland has a lower suicide rate, of only 16.8 per 100K verses the USA, with that astronomical 12. per 100K

Because GUNS are the reason for suicide.

You leftists sure are smart...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Um....maybe it is the CONSERVATIVE goverment?

Honestly, where the hell do people get this shit about socialist governments from?!

Finns are very melancholy people. In that sense a little like Slavs....people here are very dour, very introspective....though the suicide rate drop is nothing like that it was when I was at school. Finland was worst in the world then, but psychologists in schools have done amazing work. We also have very high gun ownership, remember.

No, I thought Finland was like most of Europe and kept the populace disarmed and cowed.

No matter. the highest suicide rate in the world is Greenland. 108.1 per 100K - Greenland has onerous gun control that essentially outlawed handguns in 1992, and heavily regulates long guns for the citizenry.

Yet even without those nasty guns to con people into killing themselves, they do..

I mean, it couldn't the fucking snow - it HAS to be the guns....

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored-

No, I thought Finland was like most of Europe and kept the populace disarmed and cowed.

No, you didn't think.

Absolutely terrible posting, dude.

 

[Ernie S.]

By comparing the per capita murder rate.

You didn't claim that you were safer on inner-city streets, you claimed you were safer in your house - an obviously false claim.

Because your arguments are founded on an appeal to emotion, rather than upon fact and logic, you tend to play fast and loose.

No....its basic statistics. There is nothing emotional about it.

The US rate of gun-related homicide is 10.3. Many of those murders occur in the home.

The Finnish rate is 3.64.

Thus you are in about three times as much danger as I am.

Of course it would be more accurate to compare only homicides which take place in homes, but I don't have those at hand.

from the CDC:

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

 

[westwall]

Um....maybe it is the CONSERVATIVE goverment?

Honestly, where the hell do people get this shit about socialist governments from?!

Finns are very melancholy people. In that sense a little like Slavs....people here are very dour, very introspective....though the suicide rate drop is nothing like that it was when I was at school. Finland was worst in the world then, but psychologists in schools have done amazing work. We also have very high gun ownership, remember.

No, I thought Finland was like most of Europe and kept the populace disarmed and cowed.

No matter. the highest suicide rate in the world is Greenland. 108.1 per 100K - Greenland has onerous gun control that essentially outlawed handguns in 1992, and heavily regulates long guns for the citizenry.

Yet even without those nasty guns to con people into killing themselves, they do..

I mean, it couldn't the fucking snow - it HAS to be the guns....

Finland has a high rate of gun ownership. They are third or fourth in the world. Finland was once the suicide capital of the world. Thankfully that has been turned around of late.

And, no surprise here, hanging is the most common form of suicide. Guns are more commonly used in Switzerland and by males, no surprise there. However they used to use parathion before it was banned..so they simply switched to a different method...once again no surprise..


This report is based on 160 460 suicide cases, 119 122 (74%) males and 41 338 (26%) females, who committed suicide in 16 European countries during the years 2000–4/5. The most frequent suicide method for all studied EAAD countries for both genders was hanging (54.3% among male and 35.6% among female “suicidents”). For males, hanging was followed distantly and in almost equal place by firearms (9.7%) and poisoning by drugs (8.6%). For females, poisoning by drugs (24.7%) and jumping from a high place (14.5%) were the next most frequent methods (table 1).

Hanging was the most frequent suicide method among males in all countries except in Switzerland, where firearms ranked first. Firearms were the second most common suicide method among males in Belgium, Estonia, Finland, Germany and Slovenia. Use of firearms ranked lowest in Scotland (table 2)."



"Finland's dire reputation as a nation of suicidals dates back to the 25-year period from 1965 to 1990 when Finland experienced an economic and urban boom.

During that period, the suicide rate tripled.

By 1991, Finland was the world leader in teen suicides, and among the top three in overall suicides alongside New Zealand and Iceland.

Faced with the grim figures, Finnish authorities dramatically increased funding to improve mental health and since 1991 the amount of available psychiatric help has doubled.

"We also have a lot of new antidepressant drugs (which are) easy to use, whereas until the late 1980s and beginning of the 1990s, practicians usually gave patients anxiolytics (anti-anxiety drugs) and sedatives," Loennqvist said.

Awareness campaigns in schools and among military conscripts also seem to have paid off, as the suicide rate among adolescents and young adults has dropped by 30 percent since 1991.

But the suicide rate is still high among young men -- it is the main cause of death among males aged 20 to 34.

Among all ages and genders, the suicide rate is highest in isolated and economically disadvantaged regions in the east and north of the country. By contrast, it is lower in the Swedish-speaking regions on the west coast.

The typical profile of a Finnish suicide victim is a man in his 40s, divorced and unemployed, alcoholic and in poor health.

In addition to traditional risk factors such as depression, alienation, personal problems and unemployment, Finnish researchers single out alcoholism as the biggest single risk factor.

"The social factor exists but it's not crucial,", said Mauri Marttunen, a professor of youth psychiatry at Helsinki University, noting that Finland's strong economy has made it one of the richest countries per inhabitant and that it has a narrow gap between rich and poor.

However, "half of all suicides are linked to alcohol, and one-third of all suicides have been (committed by) alcohol-dependent persons," Loennqvist said.

Finns drink the equivalent of 10 liters (2.64 gallons) of pure alcohol per year per person, according to figures from the World Health Organization from 2004.

That's less than the French, who drink 14 liters, but more than Swedes or Norwegians who drink seven and six liters respectively.


Read more: Finland's Suicide Rates Has Dropped Dramatically in Last 15 Years | Medindia http://www.medindia.net/news/Finlands-Suicide-Rates-Has-Dropped-Dramatically-in-Last-15-Years-26447-1.htm#ixzz2VGbtIu00"

Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the ?European Alliance Against Depression? -- Värnik et al. 62 (6): 545 -- Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health

 

[westwall]

Uncensored-

No, I thought Finland was like most of Europe and kept the populace disarmed and cowed.

No, you didn't think.

Absolutely terrible posting, dude.

Yours was worse when you didn't know that Norway is a neighbor of Russia.....seriously dude, how stupid do you have to be to make that simple error. Finn my ass....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Now sure why you all have not yet figured out that Saigon is neither interested in nor capable of an honest discussion on this issue.

She only serves to prove that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

 

[Ernie S.]

Now sure why you all have not yet figured out that Saigon is neither interested in nor capable of an honest discussion on this issue.

She only serves to prove that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

In all fairness to Saigon, JoeB666 is at least as ignorant and dishonest.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Now sure why you all have not yet figured out that Saigon is neither interested in nor capable of an honest discussion on this issue.

She only serves to prove that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

In all fairness to Saigon, JoeB666 is at least as ignorant and dishonest.

Indeed.
Saigon was apparently assigned to troll this topic, so I singled her out.

 

[skookerasbil]

Jon -

Still waiting for your answer to this -

Firstly, you might want to work on your geography - Norway is NOT really a neighbouring country of Russia (it barely touches Russia) wheras some 15 countries you do not mention share genuinely long borders with Russia and Ukraine is a neighbouring country to Belarus.

Funnily enough, Lithuania shares a border with both Russia and Belarus - yet you list it with neither. Why is that?

Secondly, handguns are not the complete picture - obviously.

Who cares?


Nobody cares about the Scandanavian countries, except maybe every 4 years for the winter Olympics and that is 2 weeks!! Maybe 183 people in the USA takes any notice of anything these people say about pretty , much everything.

 

[skookerasbil]

I can do this ALL summer!!!

Newly released Harvard study =


More guns = less crimes



Does Owning Guns Reduce Crime?

 

[JoeB131]

Japan also has a society that sees suicide as honorable and a religion that thinks if you off yourself, your next life will be better.

But wait, you said GUNS cause suicide, now you say it is culture.

Regardless, one thing is clear - the METHOD of suicide has ZERO impact on the act. Those who wish to kill themselves, kill themselves.

1) Never claimed guns "caused" suicides. They do make them a lot easier to do, though.

2) Making suicide harder does reduce it's number. for instance, a popular method of killing yourself used to be sticking your head in an oven when they used coal gas. Then ovens were redesigned so you couldn't do that anymore.

Why have people stopped committing suicide with gas?

The switch from coal gas to natural gas also had one unexpected effect. During the ‘50s and ‘60s, about half of the suicides in Britain were by coal gas. By the ‘70s, when the transition to natural gas was complete, the number of gas suicides had dropped to zero and the overall suicide rate was down a third. Even the suicidal appreciate convenience. If it's too much trouble, as Dorothy Parker said, "You might as well live."

[

Compared to America where Suicide is considered a sin by most Christians.

However, as usual, your claims are wrong.

Japan had 23,502 suicides last year. The US had 38,285. (19,000 of those were committed with guns.)

Per hundred thousand, dumbass.

Um, no, those are the RAW numbers. Do try to follow along.

[

Even accounting for the fact the land of the Rising Sun has only about a third of the US population, the suicide rate is 18.4 per 100,000 compared to 12.3 in the US. Not "Four times as many as you claimed."

Data Comparison from GunPolicy.org Facts

Your math doesn't work - mainly because it's fabricated.

Japan has a rate of 21.7 per hundred thousand.

The united states 12.0

]

the Gun Policy Cite says 18.4 for Japan vs. 12.3 for the US. But let us pretend for a moment that your numbers are good.

21.7/12 = 1.8

NOT

4

Which is what you claimed when you said Japan has "four times as many suicides" as the US.

1) They have less overall suicides (38K for the US vs. 23K for Japan)

2) They have only slightly more PER CAPITA suicides.

And again, this is a society where sucide is kind of an art form. Not only such wonderful institutions like seppuku and kamikazis, but the Japanese have "suicide forests".

Aokigahara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ernie S.]

1.8 is slightly more than slightly more. As a matter of fact, it's only slightly less than twice the suicides per capita.

 

[Ernie S.]

You didn't claim that you were safer on inner-city streets, you claimed you were safer in your house - an obviously false claim.

Because your arguments are founded on an appeal to emotion, rather than upon fact and logic, you tend to play fast and loose.

No....its basic statistics. There is nothing emotional about it.

The US rate of gun-related homicide is 10.3. Many of those murders occur in the home.

The Finnish rate is 3.64.

Thus you are in about three times as much danger as I am.

Of course it would be more accurate to compare only homicides which take place in homes, but I don't have those at hand.

from the CDC:

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

So, Saigon. Where are you? When the US becomes a homogeneous white society like Finland, we see that our homicide rate is less than yours. Care to comment?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

A little levity for y'all -

 

[Missourian]

Joe -

Japan had 23,502 suicides last year. The US had 38,285. (19,000 of those were committed with guns.)

Even accounting for the fact the land of the Rising Sun has only about a third of the US population, the suicide rate is 18.4 per 100,000 compared to 12.3 in the US. Not "Four times as many as you claimed."

Good catch...I did wonder if Uncensored could really be right in claiming four times as many suicides, but I didn't think to check.

Population of Japan...129 million.

Population of U.S. ... 315 million...2.4 times the population of Japan.

Adjusted suicide statistics:

U.S. - 1 suicide per 8228 citizens.

Japan - 1 suicide per 5489 citizens

or, for better comparison...

U.S. - 12.15 per 100,000

Japan - 18.21 per 100,000

Put another way...the Japanese suicide rate is one third HIGHER that of the U.S.

With no firearms in Japan.

And this was using Joe's numbers.

​

So obviously, high suicide rates are achieved in countries where guns are banned...which is the point.