Number of guns in society falling sharply

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored -

I'm not sure who your comments are directed at, but I don't believe any of the things you just claimed "you" think, so I guess you meant someone else.

If you want to know what I think rights are - you may be better to ask me than tell me what you think I believe.

So it was not you who claimed that civil rights are;

{The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home. }????????????????

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

Yes, I did state:

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

and I definitely believe that.

That does not mean that I do not believe in freedom of speech, nor that I am somehow opposed to any other form of freedom.

I believe that my neighbourscan do whatever the hell they like, providing they do not impose their interests upon me. I don't care who they have sex with (a right many right wing people oppose),or what god they worship.

I do, however, care when something they does intrudes upon my rights.

 

[westwall]

No, the vast majority of gun deaths are

Suicides.
Domestic Arguments
Accidents

Very few gun deaths are by the evil criminals you seem to think are lurking behind every bush.

Comrade Stalin, Japan has about 4 times the number of suicides that the USA does. If guns cause suicide, as you of the anti-liberty left claim, then how can this be? Japan has very low gun ownership.

Who claimed guns CAUSE suicide?

They don't.

Guns enable suicide.

It's a simple, clear proven fact.

YOU by implying that all gun deaths will drop if all the nasty guns are removed.

Doesn't explain why Japan has a higher rate of suicide than we do. Maybe its a cultural thing? Naaaaaahhhh, that would be too easy...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who claimed guns CAUSE suicide?

They don't.

Guns enable suicide.

Ah, then since Japan has few guns to enable suicide, there are few suicides...

It's a simple, clear proven fact.

Proven by the low suicide rate in Japan.

What about England? Guns are illegal, so they must not have suicide, you know, since it takes a gun to enable suicide.

Oh wait, they have suicide rate virtually identical to the USA.

UK, 11.85 per 100,000
USA, 12.0 per 100,000

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JimBowie1958]

Uncensored -

Yes, I did state:

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

and I definitely believe that.

That does not mean that I do not believe in freedom of speech, nor that I am somehow opposed to any other form of freedom.

I believe that my neighbourscan do whatever the hell they like, providing they do not impose their interests upon me. I don't care who they have sex with (a right many right wing people oppose),or what god they worship.

I do, however, care when something they does intrudes upon my rights.

No one has a right to FEEL safe.

That feeling is an illusion; none of us are often safe. Its better to not feel that way, especially if you are in a gun free zone/mass murder magnet area.

 

[westwall]

more points from the source

In this connection, two recent studies are pertinent. In 2004,
the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released its evaluation
from a review of 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government
publications, and some original empirical research. It failed to
identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, sui‐
cide, or gun accidents.The same conclusion was reached in
2003 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control’s review of then‐
extant studies.

Within the US that may well be true, because introducing gun laws in one state but not in neighbouring states is never going to make much of a difference.

Outside the US we know for a fact that it is not true-it is a proven statistical fact that gun control has worked in many countries.

What about Hawaii? It's an ISLAND. That means that there are no neighboring states. They have very restrictive gun laws and a much higher rate of crime than my state and they have over one million fewer people.

Seems like there is a logic disconnect with your hypothesis.


Hawaii's Firearm Laws Discourage Gun Ownership-As a Result, There are Higher Crime Rates

Regarding Honolulu Police Department Chief Lee Donohue's (Feb. 24, 2004) opposition to a "shall-issue" concealed firearms carry law for Hawaii, the county police chiefs have issued zero carry permits in the past 10 years because permits are entirely at the discretion of the chiefs.

Hawaii's low crime rate is rising (Honolulu Star Bulletin June 13, 2003, "Major crime soars on Oahu"; Advertiser, August 26, 2003, "State crime up for 3rd straight year").

Economist Dr. John Lott's studies show that the deterrent effect of a non-discretionary carry law against violent crime is most effective under such circumstances.

Murder, rape, robbery, assault, and at-home burglary rates drop an average of 5% in counties that pass such laws. 37 states now have them, with more states added annually.

Adults, after a negative criminal and mental health background check, on payment of a fee that covers the costs of the program, shall be issued permits, which are periodically renewable with a background check. Some states require proficiency training.

Hawaii's strict gun control laws discourage law-abiding citizens from possessing firearms, and result in higher crime rates. If Hawaii passed a non-discretionary carry law, there would be approximately 2 fewer murders, 20 less rapes, 50 fewer robberies, and 75 fewer assaults reported annually, statewide. Suffering of victims and their families, dollars lost to medical care and loss of productivity, and the justice system burden would be proportionately reduced. There is no down side.

Florida enacted its law in 1987. Florida Law Enforcement Commissioner James Moore testified in a 1995 Michigan Judiciary Committee hearing, "From a law enforcement perspective, the licensing process has not resulted in problems in the community from people arming themselves with concealed weapons." Had Eric Kawamoto had a defensive firearm on his person when he entered his house, most likely he would not have been shot.

Leaders like Chief Donohue and Senator Colleen Hanabusa, who declined to hear SB 2398 this year, should be more open to ordinary citizens' needs.

'''Dr. Maxwell A. Cooper is the Legislative Chair for the Hawaii Rifle Association. He can be reached via email at mailto:[email protected]'''


Hawaii's Firearm Laws Discourage Gun Ownership-As a Result, There are Higher Crime Rates | Hawaii Reporter

 

[Uncensored2008]

and I definitely believe that.

That does not mean that I do not believe in freedom of speech, nor that I am somehow opposed to any other form of freedom.

I believe that my neighbourscan do whatever the hell they like, providing they do not impose their interests upon me. I don't care who they have sex with (a right many right wing people oppose),or what god they worship.

I do, however, care when something they does intrudes upon my rights.

Your neighbor owning a gun doesn't infringe your rights.

Your neighbor owning a baseball bat doesn't infringe your rights.

Your neighbor bashing your brains in with a bat, does.

Your neighbor shooting you does.

Notice a pattern?

It is an act, rather than an inanimate object, which infringes rights?

 

[westwall]

How has gun control worked out in Mexico?

Seriously?

Are you sure you don't want to compare the US with Zimbabwe?

Let's trick and stick to rational arguments.

Why? You don't.

 

[Saigon]

and I definitely believe that.

That does not mean that I do not believe in freedom of speech, nor that I am somehow opposed to any other form of freedom.

I believe that my neighbourscan do whatever the hell they like, providing they do not impose their interests upon me. I don't care who they have sex with (a right many right wing people oppose),or what god they worship.

I do, however, care when something they does intrudes upon my rights.

Your neighbor owning a gun doesn't infringe your rights.

Your neighbor owning a baseball bat doesn't infringe your rights.

Your neighbor bashing your brains in with a bat, does.

Your neighbor shooting you does.

Notice a pattern?

It is an act, rather than an inanimate object, which infringes rights?

I have no problem with my neighbour owning a gun, providing he is sane, balanced, and knows what he is doing so that he does not represent a danger.

Hence - background checks.

I would also prefer that my neighbour did not keep assault weapons at home, due to the links between assault weapons and acts which very definitely intrude upon my civil rights.

 

[Saigon]

No one has a right to FEEL safe.

That feeling is an illusion; none of us are often safe. Its better to not feel that way, especially if you are in a gun free zone/mass murder magnet area.

I disagree.

Statistically, I am safer at home than you are. We can prove this quite categorically.

Any loss of that safety is something I consider an imposition on my rights.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I disagree.

Statistically, I am safer at home than you are.

Bullshit - a complete fabrication on your part.

Statistically, Americans have more to fear from their bathtubs than from guns in the home.

We can prove this quite categorically.

Hardly.

You took a statistic of total deaths and applied it to the home - failing to consider that nearly all the firearm homicides are gangbangers shooting each other in the streets.

Any loss of that safety is something I consider an imposition on my rights.

And you're more than happy to strip everyone else of civil rights to appease your feelings.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I have no problem with my neighbour owning a gun, providing he is sane, balanced, and knows what he is doing so that he does not represent a danger.

Hence - background checks.

I would also prefer that my neighbour did not keep assault weapons at home, due to the links between assault weapons and acts which very definitely intrude upon my civil rights.

"Links" that you just fabricated?

You can't even define "assault weapon." Even if every rifle is considered an "assault weapon," murders with hand guns dwarf those with rifles.

You have to quite making shit up, if you expect to be taken seriously at all.

 

[westwall]

No one has a right to FEEL safe.

That feeling is an illusion; none of us are often safe. Its better to not feel that way, especially if you are in a gun free zone/mass murder magnet area.

I disagree.

Statistically, I am safer at home than you are. We can prove this quite categorically.

Any loss of that safety is something I consider an imposition on my rights.

Really? Please do show us the math.

 

[Ernie S.]

How has gun control worked out in Mexico?

Seriously?

Are you sure you don't want to compare the US with Zimbabwe?

Let's trick and stick to rational arguments.

My contention is that violent crime is to a large extent, cultural. Gun violence is rampant in Mexico as it is among Mexicans in the US. Gun violence is rampant in Africa, as is is among Africans in the US.
Gun violence is rampant among Russian, as it is among Russians in the US.

You would rather I compare the US to gun violence in Japan. Japan is a homogeneous society with damned few Russians, Africans, Mexicans. Japanese Americans are not responsible for any significant amount of gun violence in the US, but using Japan for your comparison supports your untenable position if you can get past the basic intellectual dishonesty.

The fact is that about 2/3 of gun violence in the US is perpetrated by blacks and Hispanics. The homicide rate among European Americans is very similar to that in most of Europe.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No one has a right to FEEL safe.

That feeling is an illusion; none of us are often safe. Its better to not feel that way, especially if you are in a gun free zone/mass murder magnet area.

I disagree.

Statistically, I am safer at home than you are. We can prove this quite categorically.

Any loss of that safety is something I consider an imposition on my rights.

Please prove that you are more safe in your house than I am in my house.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How has gun control worked out in Mexico?

Seriously?

Are you sure you don't want to compare the US with Zimbabwe?

Let's trick and stick to rational arguments.

Zimbabwe is where we are heading.

Nah.
Kenya.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Comrade Stalin, Japan has about 4 times the number of suicides that the USA does. If guns cause suicide, as you of the anti-liberty left claim, then how can this be? Japan has very low gun ownership.

Who claimed guns CAUSE suicide?

They don't.

Guns enable suicide.

It's a simple, clear proven fact.

YOU by implying that all gun deaths will drop if all the nasty guns are removed.
Doesn't explain why Japan has a higher rate of suicide than we do. Maybe its a cultural thing? Naaaaaahhhh, that would be too easy...

If guns do not cause suicide, then they do not cause crime.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You all recognize that the troll have neither the intention nor the ability to have an honest, informed discussion here.
Right?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You all recognize that the troll have neither the intention nor the ability to have an honest, informed discussion here.
Right?

Yeah, it's the same ignorant pattern of dodge and denial on almost every topic from faith, to taxation, to the Constitution, to Obama's power grabs.

They don't have anything to show for their claims so they just try to baffle everyone with bullshit, thread hijacks, lies and nonsense.

There are some here who do actually try to engage in reason, but their leftie buds kill them for it, sort of the Alan Colmes syndrome.

 

[jon_berzerk]

more points from the source

In this connection, two recent studies are pertinent. In 2004,
the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released its evaluation
from a review of 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government
publications, and some original empirical research. It failed to
identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, sui‐
cide, or gun accidents.The same conclusion was reached in
2003 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control’s review of then‐
extant studies.

Within the US that may well be true, because introducing gun laws in one state but not in neighbouring states is never going to make much of a difference.

Outside the US we know for a fact that it is not true-it is a proven statistical fact that gun control has worked in many countries.

more from the source

Table 2: Murder Rates of European that Ban
Handguns as Compared to Their Neighbors that Allow Handguns
(rates are per 100,000 persons)

A. Belarus banned 10.40 late 1990s
Neighboring countries with gun law and murder rate data
Poland allowed 1.98 2003
Russia banned 20.54 2002
B. Luxembourg banned 9.01 2002
[Neighboring countries with gun law and murder rate data
Belgium allowed 1.70 late 1990s
France allowed 1.65 2003
Germany allowed 0.93 2003
C. Russia banned 20.54 2002
Neighboring countries with gun law and murder rate data
Finland allowed 1.98 2004
Norway allowed 0.81 2001