Numbers don't lie.

[saveliberty]

How bout the fact that illegals pay billions into social security and Medicare. Money they will never get back.

During a briefing earlier this week, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said it was his understanding that if immigrants paid taxes, they would be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. Earnest said:

"The goal of the executive — one of the goals of the executive action program or executive action that the President announced, as it relates to immigration, about 10 days ago, was related to bringing those individuals who have been in this country for some time out of the shadows, giving them a work permit ... and under the books, and giving them a Social Security number and making them taxpayers. And that does mean that they're going to be filing their taxes on a regular basis and that does mean that if they qualify for the child tax credit, for example, as a taxpayer that would be something that they would benefit from. But we released this study from the Council of Economic Advisers who talked about the significant economic benefits for the country associated with bringing these individuals out of the shadows so they're not getting paid in cash under the table but actually sort of part of the broader economy."

Katherine Vargas, a White House spokeswoman, told us in an email that once immigrants register under deferred action, they become taxpayers, contributing their "fair share into Social Security and Medicare."

"And only after they've paid taxes for over a decade will they become eligible for Social Security," Vargas wrote. "As taxpayers, deferred action recipients will pay into these systems and receive the same benefits on these issues as other taxpayers."

Under Executive Action, Immigrants Are Entitled To Social Security Benefits

 

[brummelben]

Illegals use up a LOT of taxpayer money. Most are on one form of welfare or another. Most have kids in schools. Many are incarcerated, and take up inordinate law enforcement resources.

The wall doesn't have to cover every single mile of the border. As with any major project, the wall will be built where it makes most sense to build it. Elsewhere there may be a fence or nothing at all. Check with the Israeli's. they have experience with a wall that has been very, very effective in stopping terrorist attacks.

Any government project is minimally "effective." Building the wall, like most government capital projects, will create short-term employment, which helps the economy as that money flows out. Just like a "bridge to nowhere," a Wall will have some benefits coming back, even if it doesn't stop a single bandit from crossing over. It's effect will also be psychological, telling our neighbors from the south (not only Mexico) that we are SERIOUS ABOUT OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS, unlike in the recent past.

The recent past has had a net NEGATIVE immigration. Understand?

 

[MaryL]

No need for a border wall if we just enforced immigration laws, and held people accountable for employing illegals, too. Fine them and make them accountable.Don't excuse them or minimize illegals, they choose this, we didn't choose THEM. And after all, Nobody is above the law, not even Hispanic Mexicans.

 

[RWNJ]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

Would you please explain how illegals are costing us 100 billion a year?

Do you know how to use Google?

 

[RWNJ]

OP - try again because there's not one word of fact in your post.

Where did you get those weird numbers?

Read it and weep.

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

 

[The Original Tree]

Your numbers are off!

California spent 25 Billion harboring illegals in California alone while ignoring their infrastructure needs like dams, and reservoirs.

Just saying but I agree...A wall is cheaper.

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

 

[brummelben]

Your numbers are off!

California spent 25 Billion harboring illegals in California alone while ignoring their infrastructure needs like dams, and reservoirs.

Just saying but I agree...A wall is cheaper.

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

For the last few years we have had a net outflow of illegals. I bet Rump never told you that

 

[RWNJ]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

Would you please explain how illegals are costing us 100 billion a year?

jailing them, medical costs education costs and the like, probably on the low side.

How bout the fact that illegals pay billions into social security and Medicare. Money they will never get back.

Actually, many of them don't pay taxes, and send a lot of their earnings back to their relatives in Mexico. And where did you get that figure? Billions? I think not. You are a credulous fool. They don't even come close to paying their own way.

 

[RWNJ]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

You are wrong. Undocumented immigrants help fuel our economy. Learn. Then post.

YOU are the one who needs to get whacked in the head with a clue stick.

Key Findings

• Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.
• The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality
• Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.
• At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.
• Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

Educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me.

 

[The Original Tree]

California spent $25 Billion a year on illegals and neglected their dams, reservoirs, roads and schools.

 

[The Original Tree]

You mean net outflow of tax dollars, right?

Your numbers are off!

California spent 25 Billion harboring illegals in California alone while ignoring their infrastructure needs like dams, and reservoirs.

Just saying but I agree...A wall is cheaper.

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

For the last few years we have had a net outflow of illegals. I bet Rump never told you that

 

[jillian]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

You are pulling numbers out of your butt

 

[RWNJ]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

You are pulling numbers out of your butt

Key Findings

• Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.
• The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality
• Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.
• At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.
• Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

 

[usmbguest5318]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us.

Any responsible analysis must look at costs and gains. It's convenient to say that illegal immigration costs some $100B. Saying that, however, ignores what is returned in exchange for that cost.

According to George Borjas' analysis:

• Illegal immigrants increased GDP by $395 to $472 billion. As before, this “contribution” to the economy does not measure the net benefit to natives.
• The immigration surplus or benefit to natives created by illegal immigrants is estimated at around $9 billion a year or 0.06 percent of GDP — six one-hundredths of 1 percent.
• Although the net benefits to natives from illegal immigrants are small, there is a sizable redistribution effect. Illegal immigration reduces the wage of native workers by an estimated $99 to $118 billion a year, and generates a gain for businesses and other users of immigrants of $107 to $128 billion.

Economists have long known that immigration redistributes income in the receiving society. Although immigration makes the aggregate economy larger, the actual net benefit accruing to natives is small, equal to an estimated two-tenths of 1 percent of GDP. There is little evidence indicating that immigration (legal and/or illegal) creates large net gains for native-born Americans.

Even though the overall net impact on natives is small, this does not mean that the wage losses suffered by some natives or the income gains accruing to other natives are not substantial. Some groups of workers face a great deal of competition from immigrants. These workers are primarily, but by no means exclusively, at the bottom end of the skill distribution, doing low wage jobs that require modest levels of education. Such workers make up a significant share of the nation’s working poor. The biggest winners from immigration are owners of businesses that employ a lot of immigrant labor and other users of immigrant labor. The other big winners are the immigrants themselves. Illegal immigration continues to vex the public and policymakers.

Illegal immigrants have clearly benefited by living and working in the United States. Many business owners and users of immigrant labor have also benefited by having access to their labor. But some native-born Americans have also lost, and these losers likely include a disproportionate number of the poorest Americans.


Who is George Borjas?

George J. Borjas has been described by both Business Week and the Wall Street Journal as “America’s leading immigration economist”. He is the Robert W. Scrivner Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. He is the recipient of the 2011 IZA Prize in Labor Economics. Professor Borjas is also a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research and a Research Fellow at IZA. Professor Borjas is the author of several books, including Heaven’s Door: Immigration Policy and the American Economy (Princeton University Press, 1999), and the widely used textbook Labor Economics (McGraw-Hill, 2012), now in its sixth edition. He has published over 125 articles in books and scholarly journals. He received his Ph.D. in economics from Columbia University in 1975.​

It may be politically inauspicious to tell the whole story of both costs and benefits of illegal immigration, but that one tells only half of it -- the negative half -- does not make the other side of the story fail to exist for responsible voters and policy makers who want to be fully informed before arriving at conclusion. Now you can have fun parsing the matter any way you want, but there is no way the numbers make a net increase to GDP become a cost; it is a gain.

 

[danielpalos]

we should be making money on the several million illegals in the country; only the right wing, hates capitalism and prefers their socialism on a national basis.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Watched Jurassic Park yesterday, rethinking walls and frog DNA.

That's it! An Electrified fence not a wall, and make it Solar/wind powered too!

That idea has been floated several times. Read the thread on it in the Clean Debate forum. Suffice it to say, it wouldn't work.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

we should be making money on the several million illegals in the country; only the right wing, hates capitalism and prefers their socialism on a national basis.

Actually, we are making money on them.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Construct a new 4-lane highway — $4 million to $6 million per mile in rural and suburban areas, $8 million to $10 million per mile in urban areas. Construct a new 6-lane Interstate highway – about $7 million per mile in rural areas, $11 million or more per mile in urban areas.

Please explain how a simple wall can cost 25 million a mile

 

[RWNJ]

Construct a new 4-lane highway — $4 million to $6 million per mile in rural and suburban areas, $8 million to $10 million per mile in urban areas. Construct a new 6-lane Interstate highway – about $7 million per mile in rural areas, $11 million or more per mile in urban areas.

Please explain how a simple wall can cost 25 million a mile

It is not a simple wall.

 

[Timmy]

Someone, a liberal who shall remain nameless, was recently complaining that a wall on our southern border could cost as much as 25 million per mile. So, let's crunch some numbers. A 2,000 mile wall, at 25 million per mile, would cost 50 billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of money, right? Well, compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us. That wall would be a bargain at twice the price. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

compare that to the 100 billion a year that illegal aliens are costing us.

Any responsible analysis must look at costs and gains. It's convenient to say that illegal immigration costs some $100B. Saying that, however, ignores what is returned in exchange for that cost.

According to George Borjas' analysis:

• Illegal immigrants increased GDP by $395 to $472 billion. As before, this “contribution” to the economy does not measure the net benefit to natives.
• The immigration surplus or benefit to natives created by illegal immigrants is estimated at around $9 billion a year or 0.06 percent of GDP — six one-hundredths of 1 percent.
• Although the net benefits to natives from illegal immigrants are small, there is a sizable redistribution effect. Illegal immigration reduces the wage of native workers by an estimated $99 to $118 billion a year, and generates a gain for businesses and other users of immigrants of $107 to $128 billion.

Economists have long known that immigration redistributes income in the receiving society. Although immigration makes the aggregate economy larger, the actual net benefit accruing to natives is small, equal to an estimated two-tenths of 1 percent of GDP. There is little evidence indicating that immigration (legal and/or illegal) creates large net gains for native-born Americans.

Even though the overall net impact on natives is small, this does not mean that the wage losses suffered by some natives or the income gains accruing to other natives are not substantial. Some groups of workers face a great deal of competition from immigrants. These workers are primarily, but by no means exclusively, at the bottom end of the skill distribution, doing low wage jobs that require modest levels of education. Such workers make up a significant share of the nation’s working poor. The biggest winners from immigration are owners of businesses that employ a lot of immigrant labor and other users of immigrant labor. The other big winners are the immigrants themselves. Illegal immigration continues to vex the public and policymakers.

Illegal immigrants have clearly benefited by living and working in the United States. Many business owners and users of immigrant labor have also benefited by having access to their labor. But some native-born Americans have also lost, and these losers likely include a disproportionate number of the poorest Americans.


Who is George Borjas?

George J. Borjas has been described by both Business Week and the Wall Street Journal as “America’s leading immigration economist”. He is the Robert W. Scrivner Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. He is the recipient of the 2011 IZA Prize in Labor Economics. Professor Borjas is also a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research and a Research Fellow at IZA. Professor Borjas is the author of several books, including Heaven’s Door: Immigration Policy and the American Economy (Princeton University Press, 1999), and the widely used textbook Labor Economics (McGraw-Hill, 2012), now in its sixth edition. He has published over 125 articles in books and scholarly journals. He received his Ph.D. in economics from Columbia University in 1975.​

It may be politically inauspicious to tell the whole story of both costs and benefits of illegal immigration, but that one tells only half of it -- the negative half -- does not make the other side of the story fail to exist for responsible voters and policy makers who want to be fully informed before arriving at conclusion. Now you can have fun parsing the matter any way you want, but there is no way the numbers make a net increase to GDP become a cost; it is a gain.

That's some fuzzy math.

Why would an illegal be filing taxes ? And if they are , then they are paying taxes .

The school thing is dubious also.