Obama care:190% Increase in premiums - Without - 20% REDUCTION!!

[healthmyths]

OP- more fear mongering Pub propaganda, for dupes only.

You DO know employer based won't change, Medicaid for under 140% of poverty, subsidies up to 4x poverty line, right?

AGAIN YOU are so woefully uninformed it is pathetic.. YOU are memeing the same cliched comments from Obamanation!

The American Action Forum surveyed insurers with a promise of anonymity, and found that the average 27 year old male nonsmoker’s rates would almost triple – (increase by 190%) under the Affordable Care Act. Of course, many 27 year old nonsmokers will be eligible for federal subsidies. The AAF concluded that health insurance premiums would decline by 40% for an older woman with known health problems.
Managing Healthcare Costs

 

[francoHFW]

Pubcrappe.

 

[francoHFW]

American Action Forum LOL!

 

[auditor0007]

First Obamacare will increase premiums... see below..

The survey, fielded by the American Action Forum and made available to POLITICO, found that if the law’s insurance rules were in force,
the premium for a relatively bare-bones policy for a 27-year-old male nonsmoker on the individual market would be nearly 190 percent higher.
Read more: ACA premium sticker shock could fuel foes - Brett Norman - POLITICO.com

So if we didn't have Obamacare AND instead had REAL Tort reform of the $850 billion a year in "defensive medicine" as the experts declare, i.e. physicians!!!
Premiums could drop by 20 to 30% rather then INCREASE NOW under Obamacare by 190%!!!!

Here is how...
1) Assume Defensive Medicine is at 34% of the $2.5 trillion health care expense or $850 billion a year! See below.
2 Assume this can be reduced to 10% ... this would mean $600 BILLION a year in savings mean reducing CLAIMS to insurance/Medicare.
3) So... IF according to the 10-k financials of health care insurance companies 80% of their premiums are paid out in claims..
This would mean if the insurance companies had no longer $600 billion in additional claims..
So now insurance companies pass 50% of these savings on or $300 billion.
So if the average premium for an employer today to cover a single employee is $8,000.
And 80% is paid out in claims.. that means $6,000 paid in claims..would reduce the premium by almost $2,000 per family health insurance premium.

All by attacking the number one cost driver "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE" out of fear of lawsuits!
In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature. Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests, 29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations, 14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.

Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.

Medical loss -claims 80% of premiums

Source Medical expenditures as % of premiums:
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):
Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program

MLR company
76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
The Average is 80%..

http://www.newamerica.net/blog/new-health-dialogue/2009/health-reform-medical-loss-ratio-or-just-medical-loss-15773

So let's get this straight; we are going to have many more people paying into the system, yet we will not be treating any new patients, because everyone already gets full medical care, but rates will double. So where is all this money going to go? Insurance companies will have to pay out 80% of premiums to medical care or they must refund the difference.

Anyway, it's an interesting concept that you have put forth. Think of it this way; we know that despite auto insurance being mandatory in every state, many people still drive around without, which drives up rates for everyone who does carry insurance. Now let's suppose that everyone driving actually did purchase insurance. Based on what you are telling us, we should then expect for auto insurance rates to double since everyone had insurance.

Now see how stupid that sounds?

 

[auditor0007]

Really? My health insurance rates have stayed unchanged for the last two years....hhhmmm

First time in over a decade. I've seen a 4% increase each of the last two years, but that is nothing compared to what happened from 2002 through 2008 when my premiums doubled in six years.

 

[bripat9643]

Obama care:190% Increase in premiums - Without - 20% REDUCTION!!

Right. Because premiums have been going down without health care reform...oh wait...they've increased to the pint of being unaffordable to people shopping on the private market.

Major fail op, major fail.

Right. So "reform" is supposed to make the cost go up 5 times faster than the rate it was perviosly increasing by.

Liberals Dictionary:
==================================================
reform - anything that causes the government to increase in size

 

[gwennie]

Really? My health insurance rates have stayed unchanged for the last two years....hhhmmm

Self-insured? Self-employed? Group coverage from an employer? High deductible plan? Covers preventative care only? Catastrophic coverage only? Depending on what type of insurance you have, that can make a major difference in premiums. For those in most categories, insurance premiums continue to rise dramatically. My group coverage went up about 15% this year. It's a good plan, but the fact is that costs continue to soar.

 

[healthmyths]

First Obamacare will increase premiums... see below..

The survey, fielded by the American Action Forum and made available to POLITICO, found that if the law’s insurance rules were in force,
the premium for a relatively bare-bones policy for a 27-year-old male nonsmoker on the individual market would be nearly 190 percent higher.
Read more: ACA premium sticker shock could fuel foes - Brett Norman - POLITICO.com

So if we didn't have Obamacare AND instead had REAL Tort reform of the $850 billion a year in "defensive medicine" as the experts declare, i.e. physicians!!!
Premiums could drop by 20 to 30% rather then INCREASE NOW under Obamacare by 190%!!!!

Here is how...
1) Assume Defensive Medicine is at 34% of the $2.5 trillion health care expense or $850 billion a year! See below.
2 Assume this can be reduced to 10% ... this would mean $600 BILLION a year in savings mean reducing CLAIMS to insurance/Medicare.
3) So... IF according to the 10-k financials of health care insurance companies 80% of their premiums are paid out in claims..
This would mean if the insurance companies had no longer $600 billion in additional claims..
So now insurance companies pass 50% of these savings on or $300 billion.
So if the average premium for an employer today to cover a single employee is $8,000.
And 80% is paid out in claims.. that means $6,000 paid in claims..would reduce the premium by almost $2,000 per family health insurance premium.

All by attacking the number one cost driver "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE" out of fear of lawsuits!
In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature. Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests, 29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations, 14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.

Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.

Medical loss -claims 80% of premiums

Source Medical expenditures as % of premiums:
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):
Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program

MLR company
76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
The Average is 80%..

http://www.newamerica.net/blog/new-health-dialogue/2009/health-reform-medical-loss-ratio-or-just-medical-loss-15773

So let's get this straight; we are going to have many more people paying into the system, yet we will not be treating any new patients, because everyone already gets full medical care, but rates will double. So where is all this money going to go? Insurance companies will have to pay out 80% of premiums to medical care or they must refund the difference.

Anyway, it's an interesting concept that you have put forth. Think of it this way; we know that despite auto insurance being mandatory in every state, many people still drive around without, which drives up rates for everyone who does carry insurance. Now let's suppose that everyone driving actually did purchase insurance. Based on what you are telling us, we should then expect for auto insurance rates to double since everyone had insurance.

Now see how stupid that sounds?

YOU didn't ADDRESS the $850 billion gorilla! That is an actual number of actual claims sent in by actual providers ... ALL out of FEAR of lawsuits.
That process does NOT apply to auto insurance.
NOT one person fears that another person driving doesn't have insurance so therefore they DOUBLE THEIR Premiums??
No of course not because the accident happens.
BUT health insurance claims are for things that happened and the providers want to make sure they won't be sued so they duplicate,etc... GET IT??

So if your love for ambulance chasing lawyers was mitigated for a few years and we were allowed to tax at 10% the $250 billion lawyers make and that 10% would decline AS the $850 billion in "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE " claims declined.. that would be the cause.. i.e. lawyers wouldn't be so quick to sue, providers wouldn't be so fearful of suits they would NOT be doing duplicate,etc. claim submissions!

So if the claim costs decline... insurance companies being competitive animals would be confronted with competitors offering lower premiums,etc.. as the insurance companies COSTS decline! Even if the insurance companies "Defensive Medicine" costs decline and the insurance companies pass on 40% of the reduction in claim costs to premiums... WE ALL win!

OH and you never commented on the use of the $25 billion from taxing lawyers to be used to pay the premiums for the truly 8 million uninsured that flock to hospitals and when they couldn't pay the hospitals "pad and pass" these uninsured expenses on to the payers, i.e. Insurance/Medicare/Out of pocket!
When the "uninsured" is registered as such.. ALL claims would be paid out of the $25 billion a year and hospitals submit to claim audits to make sure they are not continued "padding and passing" on to payers ... like this hospital one of 6,000 I have access to that submitted to Medicare claims for CAT scans marked up 6,000% over costs! The majority of hospitals don't markup so much by most do markup more then 100% their costs!

Do you understand now???