Obama declares US not at war with Islam

[elvis]

Wait, the subject of this thread and the points you're making in it are two different things. We are indeed, not at war with Islam; however, Muslim countries could surely do something to improve human rights within their country. You'll rarely see this from far left human rights organizations, though. They're more interested in picking on Israel for defending its own people.

I try as hard as possible to not do business with Chinese products or companies. Unfortunately, the keyboard I'm typing this on was probably made in China as was my computer monitor. And if I have any problems with either, I need to call India. :sigh:

surprised you don't have an apple.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

The Prophet deserves a little credit here. One of the things this country (no, not just Bush 43) has failed to do for a very long time is overtly counter the propaganda of its current or potential enemies. Presidents have hardly ever used their position on the world stage for this explicit purpose.

Am prepared to concede that The Prophet is playing a bigger game here. It I were the Mullahs, I would have narrow eyes.

The issue about all Islam vs radicals, etc., my advice: don't be a foot soldier for ideologues - any of them.

 

[ItsFairmont]

It's not mainstream Muslims that are the problem. It's Islamofascist radicals and their dumbass Jihad crap.

Radicals, yes.

There is no Islamofascist.


That's a fake word made up by Michael Weiner (Savage). Fascists are people who put the state ahead of the people (like communists). Fascists in the last century were backed by nationalist corporations. Hitler was backed by corporations, some of them right here in the USA.


Islamofascists.

Why don't we just call them Islamunists or something equally stupid.


Personally, I just think they're terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph or bin Laden. Just plain old mean people who terrorize others for some cause they think is more worthy than the next.

Anyone who resorts to violence in order to get his way is someone of weak character and questionable intelligence.

Violence is always the last resort of a failed human being.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think I'm about to puke. We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect? Ah yes, our mutual interest, oil. Does the mutual respect come into play with the way we both respect women's rights? Or how about the freedom to worship as we choose, or to not worship at all?

We are on China's ass all the time about their human rights violations, but with the Muslim world we call it mutual respect. To top it off, we know that Muslims don't respect us in return, so what the hell is mutual here? What it boils down to is Obama kissing Muslim ass, and they're laughing at us. Bush was no better when it came to this. Politicians think they can schmooze their way into getting Muslims to like us and our freedoms, but that will never happen.

but we aren't at war with Islam. We have to deal with putting down the wahibbist threat, but out of the entire muslim population, i think we all know that only a small percent are violent fundie wackos.

the moderate Arabs... people in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon (excluding Hezbollah)... appreciate it. The wackos see anythig short of blowing them off the face of the earth with impunity as weakness and they hate us either way. so those people and their threats need to be addressed differently. but nothing wrong with a little nuanced thought after eight years of wacko meets wacko.

Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt were conquered by peace-loving Muslims, Jillie.

A so-called "moderate" Muslim is, as I said, either ignorant of the contents of the Koran and Haddiths, or is an out and out liar.

The Muslims have a word for people who acquiesce, and they have a different word of their own for PRETENDING to acquiesce, when they are losing a conflict. But their surrender is never meant to be any but a temporary state of affairs, a breathing space until they can again take up arms and continue with their crusade.

 

[AllieBaba]

Wow, some of the opinions here... Many times on this board I'm very hopeful that these are the opinions of the past. The opinions of a dying and crippled generation forged in the grips xenophobia and ideological fear.

Write to the guy, and to congress, and get them to declare war on a billion people. Go ahead. You'll be much safer! It'll be easy to occupy a quarter of the earth. And hey, if it goes bad, just nuke the whole fucking place- you guys love nuke so much, cuz they make the whole world so safe. Fix a big dome over Jerusalem just in case, and then boom. It'll be very cheap, too. All you need to do is what, press 50 million Americans into military service and spend 50% of GDP on the military for the next 1,000 years. Glorious!

And sure, It's high time for another great war. It'll get the economy going.

Good luck! = ) I'll be watching the TV to hear Obama say "We are at War with Islam" on CNN, and then I'll feel just SO FUCKING SAFE MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE.

Islam has already declared war. We're just pretending they haven't.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2VqqVDgRs]YouTube - RADICAL islam DECLARES WAR AGAINST AMERICA AND THE WEST[/ame]

"The official Iranian News Agency headlined the speech: "World Without U.S. Achievable," indicating one of the Iranian president's main messages. In that spirit, a top Iranian military commander, Maj.-Gen. Ataollah Saleh, stated that a clash between the Islamic Republic and the U.S. has become inevitable. A few days later, the Iranian Ministry of Education announced that 20 million students in primary schools would chant "Death to America" to mark the anniversary of the occupation of the U.S. Embassy in Teheran in 1979....

Ahmadinejad directly threatened the West as well, although this was largely missed by the Western media. He also declared in his address: "We are in the process of an historical war between the World of Arrogance [i.e., the West] and the Islamic world,...

Muslim terrorists are regularly arrested in various countries. Iran has been a major contributor to the radicalization of European Muslim conservatives as well, where cases of Islamist violence have been spreading.6 These developments increasingly undermine the credibility of propaganda slogans such as "Islam is only a religion of peace," "Islam condemns all terrorism," and "Muslims are solely victims and not perpetrators."
Ahmadinejad Calls for Israel's Elimination and Declares War on the West: A Case Study of Incitement to Genocide - Manfred Gerstenfeld

 

[Avatar4321]

Well duh. Did he just figure this out?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Personally, I just think they're terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph or bin Laden. Just plain old mean people who terrorize others for some cause they think is more worthy than the next.

I know of many Liberals who call them freedom fighters......some are posting on this very board now.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Personally, I just think they're terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph or bin Laden. Just plain old mean people who terrorize others for some cause they think is more worthy than the next.

I know of many Liberals who call them freedom fighters......some are posting on this very board now.

Uhhhhh................. huh?? Really? Like who??

Eric Robert Rudolph (born September 19, 1966), also known as the Olympic Park Bomber, is an American far-right radical described by the Federal Bureau of Investigation as a terrorist[2] who committed a series of bombings across the southern United States which killed two people and injured at least 150 others.

Rudolph declared that his bombings were part of a guerrilla campaign against abortion and what he describes as "the homosexual agenda." He spent years on the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, but was caught in 2003.

After leaving the Army in 1992, McVeigh grew increasingly transient. At first he worked briefly near his hometown of Pendleton as a security guard, where he sounded off daily to his co-worker Carl Lebron, Jr. about his loathing for government. Deciding the Buffalo area was too liberal, he left his job and began driving around America, seeking out his old friends from the Army.[21]
McVeigh wrote letters to local newspapers, complaining about taxes:
“ Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate "promises," they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight ... Is a Civil War Imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn't come to that. But it might.:[22]

[...]

He also quit the NRA, viewing its stance on gun rights to be too weak.[26]

[...]

“ The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful, and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[28]

[...]

McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called "The People's Socialist Republic of California."[30]

Wow.... I really wasn't expecting that. Wow... this... this is actually kind of disturbing... especially because of how often one hears these views in this board.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Wow, some of the opinions here... Many times on this board I'm very hopeful that these are the opinions of the past. The opinions of a dying and crippled generation forged in the grips xenophobia and ideological fear.

Write to the guy, and to congress, and get them to declare war on a billion people. Go ahead. You'll be much safer! It'll be easy to occupy a quarter of the earth. And hey, if it goes bad, just nuke the whole fucking place- you guys love nuke so much, cuz they make the whole world so safe. Fix a big dome over Jerusalem just in case, and then boom. It'll be very cheap, too. All you need to do is what, press 50 million Americans into military service and spend 50% of GDP on the military for the next 1,000 years. Glorious!

And sure, It's high time for another great war. It'll get the economy going.

Good luck! = ) I'll be watching the TV to hear Obama say "We are at War with Islam" on CNN, and then I'll feel just SO FUCKING SAFE MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE.

Islam has already declared war. We're just pretending they haven't.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2VqqVDgRs]YouTube - RADICAL islam DECLARES WAR AGAINST AMERICA AND THE WEST[/ame]

"The official Iranian News Agency headlined the speech: "World Without U.S. Achievable," indicating one of the Iranian president's main messages. In that spirit, a top Iranian military commander, Maj.-Gen. Ataollah Saleh, stated that a clash between the Islamic Republic and the U.S. has become inevitable. A few days later, the Iranian Ministry of Education announced that 20 million students in primary schools would chant "Death to America" to mark the anniversary of the occupation of the U.S. Embassy in Teheran in 1979....

Ahmadinejad directly threatened the West as well, although this was largely missed by the Western media. He also declared in his address: "We are in the process of an historical war between the World of Arrogance [i.e., the West] and the Islamic world,...

Muslim terrorists are regularly arrested in various countries. Iran has been a major contributor to the radicalization of European Muslim conservatives as well, where cases of Islamist violence have been spreading.6 These developments increasingly undermine the credibility of propaganda slogans such as "Islam is only a religion of peace," "Islam condemns all terrorism," and "Muslims are solely victims and not perpetrators."
Ahmadinejad Calls for Israel's Elimination and Declares War on the West: A Case Study of Incitement to Genocide - Manfred Gerstenfeld

I'm sorry, but that's just idiotic. "Islam" can't do anything, AllieBaba. It's a religion. It can't pilot a plane. Only people can pilot a plane. Similarly, "Islam" can't declare a war. Only a person with power can declare a "war." In this case you are talking about 2 muslims - who hate each other and believe in totally different things, and in fact may consider each other infidels, even- and deciding "Hey, that must be how ALL Muslims think!"

Sorry, but let me inform you that nobody has a "monopoly" on culture or religion. To claim that Bin Laden and Ahmedinejad represent Islam is clearly a sign or mere ignorance- have you even met a Muslim? Guess not, huh... after all, YOU are at War with them. Hahahaha... It'd be like claiming that white, old, german Benedict represents Catholics world wide. I mean, I'd just like to know when we took a fuckin' vote on it. And I'm sure if I were a muslim, I'd be thinking to myself "Bin Laden and Ahmedinejand?? I don't fuckin' know- I didn't even vote for them!" When was these series of elections that granted these buffoons power to suddenly represent 1 or 2 billion souls- and by what margin did they win?

AND EVEN THEN that doesn't mean damn a thing, cuz even if you were to vote for someone, it doesn't mean you agree with all they say. In this case we can't even know.

To put it in perspective, let's pretend I make the same idiotic assumptions that you do. By that same token, then I can assume that you are undoubtedly a "liberal." You must believe in stricter gun control, higher taxes, abortion and bigger government, right? After all, your president is Democrat Barack Obama, isn't he? If he is your president, then absolutely everything he says must be what all Americans think. RIGHT?! Ohhhh, then it all makes sense. That's why nobody in this board argues with each other! Because it is obvious- if the leader of the Americans thinks something, it must mean ALL Americans think the same way! Ahhh, AllieBaba, now I understand. Must be like having a nuts mental disorder, you all agreed with Bill Clinton for 8 years, and then you all agreed with George Bush for 8 years, and then switch it all the way around to Obama again. Crazy American schizos! Again, DAMN, at least that makes a bit more sense because you guys actually voted for him- it certainly makes MUCH more sense than claiming that all Muslims are at war with America because Bin Laden is. But it's not so.

In any case, as has been said a million times, Ahmedinejad is a joke. Iran has a Supreme Leader. He makes the decisions, quote him if you actually want to discuss Iranian foreign policy, not this batshit idiot- who's on his way out anyway.

 

[manu1959]

did the us ever declare war on islam?

no....but we did just send another 17,000 troops to afganistan to kill muslims.....

 

[Yurt]

did the us ever declare war on islam?

no....but we did just send another 17,000 troops to afganistan to kill muslims.....

yet we never hear how obama is at war with islam or how obama hates muslims...bush does the same thing, bush hates muslim and is at war with islam...

 

[manu1959]

did the us ever declare war on islam?

no....but we did just send another 17,000 troops to afganistan to kill muslims.....

yet we never hear how obama is at war with islam or how obama hates muslims...bush does the same thing, bush hates muslim and is at war with islam...

bush held hands and kissed the king.....obama just bent over.....

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Personally, I just think they're terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph or bin Laden. Just plain old mean people who terrorize others for some cause they think is more worthy than the next.

I know of many Liberals who call them freedom fighters......some are posting on this very board now.

Uhhhhh................. huh?? Really? Like who??

You'll figure it out, I'm having enough problems with certain individuals to start naming names.

 

[Xenophon]

Well, maybe we should be at war with it, all it does is attack everyone else.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

You'll figure it out, I'm having enough problems with certain individuals to start naming names.

... I get the feeling my point just flew way past you.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

You'll figure it out, I'm having enough problems with certain individuals to start naming names.

... I get the feeling my point just flew way past you.

You asked me who and I said I wasn't naming names. If you did indeed have a point yes I missed it.

 

[garyd]

Are you Kidding? First off I was two years ahead of Michael Savage. The term was a bit different Fascist Followers of Islam but the meaning was the Same. It was accurate then it is accurate today.

If one properly views Fascism as a socialist totalitarian state then the difference between what the Jihadis are after and said socialist totalitarian state lies only in the means to justify said state. Note such states never work well in practice.

 

[Diuretic]

I thought this was an interesting read - I've linked it direct to the single page entry to save you having to read the latest "croc takes human" story here.

This week, the George Bush era seems remarkably distant. Barack Obama was in Turkey, where he chose to end his eight-day tour of Europe with a speech to the Turkish parliament. Not so long ago, opinion polls showed that only some 9 per cent of Turks had a favourable opinion of the United States.

Yet, as Obama stood there, advocating for Turkey's inclusion in the European Union and celebrating it as the site of connection between East and West, it was clear this was a different world. He praised Turkey's evolving political culture, rattling off a list of Turkey's recent reforms to increase political freedom. He quoted Turkish proverbs and acknowledged their wisdom. Everyday Turks are now feting the new American President as a hero. By any standard, that is remarkable.

More at link -

Waleed Aly | Obama speech | Turkey | Muslim world

 

[garyd]

More evidence that even the the best of Muslims are subject to some rather peculiar thought processes usually of the form over substance sort. Thanks Di. I needed that not.

 

[Munin]

I try as hard as possible to not do business with Chinese products or companies. Unfortunately, the keyboard I'm typing this on was probably made in China as was my computer monitor. And if I have any problems with either, I need to call India. :sigh:

I think we had this discussion already a couple of times on this forum, I think we can conclude it with this video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KITcV5jgQiU]YouTube - Why nothing is made in America[/ame]