Obama Plans to Scrap Missle Defense Shield?

[DiveCon]

So we are talking THOUSANDS of missiles with say a DOZEN mirvs per missile. How can you POSSIBLY make a case for a missile defense shield that could defend against that many reentry vehicles?

and which countries have that capacity?
the missile defense is not intended to take on a global thermonuclear war
you are trying to deflect by claiming that

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So tell me Dive how simple is it for a defensive shield to overcome the shear VOLUME of nuclear reentry vehicles?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well you are trying to JUSTIFY a defensive shield that would NEVER come into play.........Tell me WHY a country like Iran or North Korea LAUNCH an inter continental missile even if they had a functional version? Wouldn't it be MUCH more likely to deliver it in a cargo container?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Tell me what we GAIN by putting up a defensive shield that could only hit a FEW missiles? The only thing I can see is a move that DESTABILIZES an already unstable region.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Missile defense is a SCAM and a TOTAL waste of money and resources.

 

[DiveCon]

Missile defense is a SCAM and a TOTAL waste of money and resources.

it's neither and you are deflecting

 

[Stormbringer]

So we are talking THOUSANDS of missiles with say a DOZEN mirvs per missile. How can you POSSIBLY make a case for a missile defense shield that could defend against that many reentry vehicles?

russian mirvs are currently 3 warheads per missile treaty allows 8 though. we have means to defeat mirved warheads. why don't you read up on the ABM tech before spouting off that they are invulnerable. also in case you are wondering currently the russians are abiding by a treaty with the US that limits total warheads to under 3500 or thereabouts. and because they wish to retain second and even third strike capability they will not launch all missiles at once at any rate. and get this: Missile defense is not Meant to thwart a russian full strategic strike. with regards to Russia our only policy was to stop a rogue missile strike perhaps ten at most. however if you look up data on the KKV. it can handle mirved warheads and decoys easily. it has enough shots to kill everything that comes off a missile; warheads, decoys and all.

 

[JW Frogen]

Obama just check mated himself with his own sense of moral certainty.

He just said to Russia, take my King, I will move the pawns out of the way.

Then we can play the new game of let's hold hands and sing we are the world.

OK, maybe the shit thing does not even work, and Iran was not really the problem, but putting that system in Poland, Hungry and Czechoslovakia made them sure of NATO's commitment to Eastern Europe and backed Russia off.

If Obama wanted to get rid of this he should have tried to get something from the Russians, say to them if you get out of Georgia we will not deploy missle defense.

But he just gave it away.

Now Putin is thinking Obama is just one big pussy just waiting to be fucked.

*Royalty check to Tony Montana.

 

[DiveCon]

[youtube]KBMU6l6GsdM[/youtube]

 

[DiveCon]

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[JW Frogen]

Just one bigbama pussy waiting to be fucked.

 

[Neser Boha]

there are more nations involved than france and britain. but those were the two nations who had a pact with poland before wwii. yawn, try to be not so transparent.

The only thing transparent is a western european telling us we have nothing to worry about if we let western europeans make decisions for central and eastern europeans, instead of letting those actually involved have a say.

the poles and the czechs were not going to be protected by the missile shield from the russians, hello?

Then why do the russians object.

Hello???

but the missile shield angered the bear, so the net balance for poles and czechs is negative.

And we should give a flying fuck what angers Russia because?

They don't own eastern europe anymore.

and what do poles and czechs have to say about that, you know the opinion of who you pretend to care about?

They are angry and disapointed by it, as anyone betrayed would be.

Nice try at the baghdad bob routine, loved the touch of adding a poll about poles.

Now to skip your inane propaganda and listen to, let's say, LECH WALESA who lead the soldiarity movement:

"I can see what kind of policy the Obama administration is pursuing toward this part of Europe," he said ruefully, adding: "The way we are being approached needs to change."

How about the Czechs?

Former Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek went on Czech radio to vent his frustrations.

"The Americans are not interested in this territory as they were before," he said. "It's bad news for the Czech Republic."

How about the current Czech gov?

But a prominent Czech legislator suggested the rebuff would have consequences should Washington ask for troops — or anything else.

"If the administration approaches us in the future with any request, I would be strongly against it," said Jan Vidim, a lawmaker with the conservative Civic Democratic Party, which had supported the missile defense plan.

Aleksander Szczyglo, head of Poland's National Security Office, characterized the change as a "defeat primarily of American long-distance thinking about the situation in this part of Europe."

"It's quite unfair," said Petr Boubin, 36, who owns a cafe in the Czech capital. "I think Obama is making too many concessions to Russia."

Eastern Europe grumbles about downgrade in US ties - Yahoo! News

So much for your propaganda and polls of poles.

You just quoted a few pro-radar politicians. How is that supposed to be convincing? About 80% of Czech population is against the radar.

 

[Neser Boha]

i posted the attitude of the czech and polish public towards the glorious missile defense shield. the public opinion you claim to care about.

You posted polls and rumor, i posted quotes with names attached.

In short, YOU don't care about them, seeing as you want to lick Putin's nuts.

Are you seriously claiming that quoting a few cherry-picked individuals is better than stating POPULAR opinion? Wow.

the russians object because they probably don't buy the official explanation that this shield is protection against IRAN.

Once again, so?

The Russians are not the masters of the world, and no, they aern't supposed to have a say in the affairs of other nations that don't like them.

Why are you so eiger to appease them?

You say they are no threat, then go on about how you want to kiss their ass.

NATO has been spreading since 1989 - far and wide. Now NATO - with the new US radar system - would get insight far into the Russian territory. That is what Russia is objecting to. Russia is a superpower - it doesn't matter if you like it or not - and a superpower, if it wants to be taken seriously can't just acquiescence to such advances. It wants to maintain a certain sphere of influence - every country wants that. Also, Eastern Europe is way closer to its territory than it is to the US territory. Logic at work. People should drop the Cold War mentality. That war is long over.

it is also very transparent that you think the mighty american is better equipped to make decisions for those poor eastern european nations without their democratic input.

have a nice day

A statement that is truely monumental in cluelessness.

YOU are the one arguing that postion, and you say I think it!

The bottom line is that most of the populace is against the radar. Howgh. The end. Thank you President Obama for doing the work of the anti-democratic parties in power in Czech Republic (dunno about Poland).

 

[Neser Boha]

A spokeswoman at the Polish Ministry of Defense also said the program had been suspended.

"This is catastrophic for Poland," said the spokeswoman

U.S. scraps missile defense shield plans - CNN.com

Yes, the current polish government justs LUVS this!

Not.

Current Polish government, if it doesn't follow the desires of its people that elected it into power can kiss my ass.

The 'dismay' that's been described in all of those articles only refers to CZ and Poland - and - only quotes pro-radar politicians. Even though it's not reported, believe it or not, there are many who are jubilant over Obama's decision.

 

[Neser Boha]

Just read a bunch of Czech articles about the Defense Shield scrapping and they're quoting not only politicians against the move, but also politicians happy about the move. One politician called it 'the victory of the Czech people'. I'd provide a link, but I don't think any of you can read Czech.

A few of the articles also mentioned that Czech popular opinion was decidedly against the radar - they quote 70% were against.

 

[editec]

Obama just check mated himself with his own sense of moral certainty.

He just said to Russia, take my King, I will move the pawns out of the way.

Then we can play the new game of let's hold hands and sing we are the world.

OK, maybe the shit thing does not even work, and Iran was not really the problem, but putting that system in Poland, Hungry and Czechoslovakia made them sure of NATO's commitment to Eastern Europe and backed Russia off.

If Obama wanted to get rid of this he should have tried to get something from the Russians, say to them if you get out of Georgia we will not deploy missle defense.

But he just gave it away.

Now Putin is thinking Obama is just one big pussy just waiting to be fucked.

*Royalty check to Tony Montana.

I think the USA still has something over 10,000 nuclear warheads aimed at Russia.

My point?

I think that's enough deterent that we don't have to worry too much about russia lunching missles at anybody.

 

[Toro]

The Czechs are happy about this.

The U.S. and Russians have been playing chess over the missile shield. Warsaw and Prague were just squares on the chessboard.

Still, with nearly 60% of Czechs, according to some recent local polls, opposed to hosting a radar facility for the U.S. missile shield, the decision to scrap it will go down well.

The most common concern among locals who oppose the radar is that the U.S. Army facility intensifies the security risks faced by the Czech Republic. “Terrorists may actually want to attack the Czech Republic because it would host the radar base,” said one protester at one of the recent anti-radar demonstration.

Others argue the radar is based on an untested and unproven technology.

The smallest and least vocal group of Czech radar opponents argued that the radar would in the long-run destabilize the allegedly fragile Russian government of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

“What if some real lunatic rules in Russia in the near future?” an acquaintance of mine once told me. “I’m against the radar because it may stir up a nasty nationalistic backlash in Russia.”

The View From Prague: Goodbye and Good Riddance - New Europe - WSJ

 

[Ravi]

It seems everyone is happy about it but the neocons.

 

[rdean]

The thing people have to understand is that because less than 6% of scientists are Republicans, they simply don't believe what scientists have to say.

Worse, they really don't see a connection between "technology" and "science".

The truth about the "missile defense system" is that it's an oxymoron. Our technology isn't developed for this system to work the way Republicans believe it can. The system can't even tell the difference between a missile and a goose or a weather balloon.

Republicans point to tests that prove the system works, but the truth is our missiles only hit the target a percentage of the time EVEN when given the target, coordinates, speed and trajectory fed into targeting computers. How well would it do against an unknown target especially since the enemy would only have to release a bunch of balloons to fool the system?

Once again, it's Republicans chasing waterfalls. They believe it you throw enough money at something, it will work.

 

[Neser Boha]

Obama just check mated himself with his own sense of moral certainty.

He just said to Russia, take my King, I will move the pawns out of the way.

Then we can play the new game of let's hold hands and sing we are the world.

OK, maybe the shit thing does not even work, and Iran was not really the problem, but putting that system in Poland, Hungry and Czechoslovakia made them sure of NATO's commitment to Eastern Europe and backed Russia off.

If Obama wanted to get rid of this he should have tried to get something from the Russians, say to them if you get out of Georgia we will not deploy missle defense.

But he just gave it away.

Now Putin is thinking Obama is just one big pussy just waiting to be fucked.

*Royalty check to Tony Montana.

I think the USA still has something over 10,000 nuclear warheads aimed at Russia.

My point?

I think that's enough deterent that we don't have to worry too much about russia lunching missles at anybody.

Thank you.

Enough of the armed escalation. US still has the largest functional stockpile of nuclear warheads, Russia has the second largest - both countries have pledged to get rid of them in the Nuclear Non proliferation Treaty (which so far hasn't really worked) ... I think this move is actually very smart on Obama's part. One Russian politician was quoted saying (now I'm paraphrazing) - "it's as if you had a rotting corpse on your carpet and now somebody finally took it away". I might be too optimistic about it, Poland might totally disengage from helping the US in Iraq and Afghanistan - if the politicians are stupid enough, but I really hope and believe some good will come out of this move - better relations between Russia and USA perhaps? I like to be a little optimistic from time to time.