Obama retakes oath of office

[Paulie]

Embarrassing myself

That's funny jill, especially in the face of you being the only one who's still challenging the notion that Obama wasn't the executive until he recited the oath.

 

[Luissa]

From how I understand the succession, the Secretary of State is under the umbrella of the previous administration and as a designated successor to the position of POTUS, it automatically passes on when the president ceases for whatever reason to be the president. (She has already sworn allegiance.) This is to ensure there is always a president regardless of prefunctories which may not be immediately implementable in the case of an emergency situation.

Actually the day of the inauguration Gates was designated successor!

 

[Jon]

Okay. This is not worth arguing about. My guess is that the USSC would accept that Obama is president, even if his oath was flubbed (I think they would read successor to mean the President-elect).

You're right, the Supreme Court would likely declare that Obama was President at noon just to avoid confusion. However, it's interesting to note the possibility of what the screw-up means. Some of us are enjoying the conversation and what it technically means in American history.

I doubt that even technically, each VP that has taken an oath prior to the President was actually the President for 5 minutes.

Wrong. Because, historically, the President-elect has taken oath right at noon, when the previous President's term ends.

 

[Gord]

Actually the day of the inauguration Gates was designated successor!

Gates was the nuclear bomb survivor successor. If all in the line of succession were killed he was the last resort to preserve the government. But with Condi alive she would usurp him in the succession line. And we are discussing the inauguration presuming everybody survived it.

 

[roomy]

geezus Ravi...they fucked up....you ever fuck up?....or should we start calling you Jesus?.....

You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it slapped you in the face

 

[jgbkab]

Wrong. In a situation where the President dies or becomes incapacitated, the line of succession takes effect immediately. Those in line have already taken an oath to fulfill the role of President, as it is part of their duty in their current position. Basically, Condoleeza had already taken an oath to be President if those before her were unable to serve.

I remember specifically that Johnson had to take the Oath on AF1 after the Kennedy assasination. You still have to take the Oath to be POTUS.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Fixing Bush's mistakes? Seems like it, yeah.

Roberts was the one who made the mistake. Bush nominated him.

What fantasy world do you live in? Roberts corrected the sentence and Obama repeated the wrong one. But who the fuck cares, this is a retarded subject Obama is our President even if they never redid the Oath.

It does not equate to his intelligence or his ability to lead or run the Country. I keep telling you retards to attack him on real issues, there are enough of them. Instead the right keeps going down that low muddy road to no where.

Remember how pissed we got when ever the left made shit up and made more out of bullshit then needed to be? Take the high road. Obama has more then enough issues that are real and are important then a word out of place in the Oath of Office.

I am past tired of defending this President because my own side INSISTS on being stupid.

 

[DiveCon]

What fantasy world do you live in? Roberts corrected the sentence and Obama repeated the wrong one. But who the fuck cares, this is a retarded subject Obama is our President even if they never redid the Oath.

It does not equate to his intelligence or his ability to lead or run the Country. I keep telling you retards to attack him on real issues, there are enough of them. Instead the right keeps going down that low muddy road to no where.

Remember how pissed we got when ever the left made shit up and made more out of bullshit then needed to be? Take the high road. Obama has more then enough issues that are real and are important then a word out of place in the Oath of Office.

I am past tired of defending this President because my own side INSISTS on being stupid.

no shit, this crap only makes conservatives look stupid
like the 9/11 troofers

 

[jillian]

Embarrassing myself

That's funny jill, especially in the face of you being the only one who's still challenging the notion that Obama wasn't the executive until he recited the oath.

Have you been reading this thread at all?

If you look at my posts, Reilly's posts, and jsanders posts, all of us acknowledge that Obama was president at noon.

you're the only one who seems to think that joe biden was ever the president.

i love insecure people like you who seem to find it amusing to pretend they know more law than lawyers. and if you notice, you're the only one not amusing themselves with this subject and finding the need to be insulting about it. I always find that funny from self-professed constitutionalists. I don't even claim the level of expertise at it that you do. Justices don't even ever agree on a bright line answer in complex cases. But you... you have THE answer?? RAFLMAO.

Hint: If the case were before the supreme court, there would be an "Opinion", concurring opinions and a "dissent". And not a lawyer in the world is stupid enough to think that your answer is the one the Court would EVERY give. The Constitution says the term begins at noon. Bush's term ended at noon. The Constitution clearly says he is president at that time... though there is a (small) question as to whether any executive actions on his part at that time would have been effective. An interesting intellectual question and one to toy with, but JOE BIDEN WAS NEVER PRESIDENT and no Court would ever say he was.

But if it gives your ego a boost, have at it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Have you been reading this thread at all?

If you look at my posts, Reilly's posts, and jsanders posts, all of us acknowledge that Obama was president at noon.

you're the only one who seems to think that joe biden was ever the president.

i love insecure people like you who seem to find it amusing to pretend they know more law than lawyers. and if you notice, you're the only one not amusing themselves with this subject and finding the need to be insulting about it. I always find that funny from self-professed constitutionalists. I don't even claim the level of expertise at it that you do. Justices don't even ever agree on a bright line answer in complex cases. But you... you have THE answer?? RAFLMAO.

Hint: If the case were before the supreme court, there would be an "Opinion", concurring opinions and a "dissent". And not a lawyer in the world is stupid enough to think that your answer is the one the Court would EVERY give. The Constitution says the term begins at noon. Bush's term ended at noon. The Constitution clearly says he is president at that time... though there is a (small) question as to whether any executive actions on his part at that time would have been effective. An interesting intellectual question and one to toy with, but JOE BIDEN WAS NEVER PRESIDENT and no Court would ever say he was.

But if it gives your ego a boost, have at it.

"An interesting intellectual question and one to toy with, but JOE BIDEN WAS NEVER PRESIDENT and no Court would ever say he was."

Owned.

Oh, the drama of it all. LOL. I bet you're right. Despite all the theories of the arm chair lawyers, I doubt a court in the land would ever conclude Joe Biden was president.

 

[Luissa]

Gates was the nuclear bomb survivor successor. If all in the line of succession were killed he was the last resort to preserve the government. But with Condi alive she would usurp him in the succession line. And we are discussing the inauguration presuming everybody survived it.

Yes she would but the term 'designated successor' applies to Gates not Rice!

 

[Harry Dresden]

Perhaps, I've seen it argued from both sides and I'm not convinced either way. But as Obama is president it's mostly just sour grapes on the wingnuts part.

Not that I don't enjoy watching them cry.

why would a perfect being such as yourself enjoy watching the imperfect cry?....

 

[Luissa]

I remember specifically that Johnson had to take the Oath on AF1 after the Kennedy assasination. You still have to take the Oath to be POTUS.

yes because there was an assasination and it wasn't noon on jan 20. The amendment has to do with regular terms of Presidents. I don't see how it can say one Presidents terms ends at noon and the other therefore begins at such time in easier terms. Did you guys ever think it states this for the same reason you guys are using for your agruement.
When they wrote the amendment they probably realized if they didn't people could argue the VP or whoever was President for five minutes. With the amendment there is no lapse between incoming and outgoing Presidents!

 

[Gord]

Yes she would but the term 'designated successor' applies to Gates not Rice!

OK - I explained what Gates was as the designated successor and that he did not apply to our discussion, and you agreed with me when you said "Yes". Gates is irrelevant to the three minutes following noon that we have been discussing. So what is your point?

 

[Paulie]

Have you been reading this thread at all?

If you look at my posts, Reilly's posts, and jsanders posts, all of us acknowledge that Obama was president at noon.

you're the only one who seems to think that joe biden was ever the president.

You'll see as the thread progressed, that my view progressed as well. I came to the final conclusion that IN THE LEAST, there was a brief time of about 5 minutes where there was a powerless executive branch, because until Obama takes the official oath, he can not make executive decisions Jill. I'm sorry, but the constitution CLEARLY states that in Article 2, Section 1. Just because you're a fucking lawyer doesn't mean a regular old non-lawyer can't read a couple fucking sentences in the constitution and clearly distinguish what it's saying. Until the president takes the oath, he has no executive power. If you're challenging that, then I suggest you take some more law classes or something because you're WRONG. Wasn't the executive means that he can not make an executive decision, it doesn't have to mean he "wasn't president", because believe me, I realize how much that would hurt your feelings had it been true, for whatever stupid ass fucking reason. You liberals all jumped all over this for some reason as though it somehow detracted from Obama's overall worth. It was pretty funny to watch.

The delay in taking the oath that day caused a brief lapse of power in the executive branch. Had there been some kind of event that happened during that couple minutes, Obama would not have had the legal authority to make any executive decision. Now what I'm NOT going to argue, is that the SCOTUS would most likely have ruled in his favor to avoid any kind of confusion or create a bigger problem would need be. But in an official constitutional sense, the executive branch had no power until Obama actually took the oath.

Here's an article that breaks it down, and finally caused me to abandon thinking Biden was president:

Joe Biden Was Never President | TagSurfer

Now, according to Article II, Section I, “Before [the president] enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation” and then it goes on to quote the oath.

So here is our conundrum: The President’s term begins at noon since the old President’s term ends at noon. However, he can’t “enter on the Execution of his Office” until after he takes the Oath which he did not do until a few minutes after noon. So how do we deal with those few minutes in between?

Here I’ll have to explain a couple of terms. There is a difference between taking office and executing that office. Another case in which the President may hold office but not be able to execute it is if he is disabled and lying in the hospital, for example. So in that regard we have a clear answer to who held the office of President. The moment the clock struck noon, George Bush left office and Barack Obama took office.

Our next term we have to discuss is “Acting President” which is what the Constitution explains will be the position of the person who acts for the President when he is unable to act for himself. In this case that would be the already sworn in Vice President Joe Biden. The Acting President is not the President. He retains his office as Vice President but fulfills the duties of the President. The Vice President only becomes the President upon death, removal, or resignation of the current President.

...

So at this point we seem to have a logical conclusion. At noon on January 20th, Barack Obama became the President and Vice President Joe Biden, already having been sworn in, took on the duties of Acting President until Obama took the Oath of Office. Right? Wrong.

Here’s what almost everybody missed. The Constitution accounts for succession in all of the following situations: The “removal” of the President from office, his death, his resignation, and cases where certain individuals (the combination is different depending on the situation) give each other written notifications that the current President can not perform his duties. Long story short, none of these apply to the situation we saw on the 20th.

The truth is, the Constitution just doesn’t specifically account for the situation as it happened. That being the case, there is still a way it can fit the parameters.

If Barack Obama had not been removed from office, if he had not died or resigned, then there are only a couple of ways for Biden to assume Presidential duties.

First, Obama writes a letter saying he is unable to perform his duties.

Second, the Vice President and some others write a letter saying that Obama is unable to perform his duties.

Obviously, neither of these occurred. What that means is that Barack Obama became the President at noon and, although he was not able to perform his duties until after taking the Oath, there was no Acting President. Had this been a serious issue lasting any significant amount of time, the necessary measures would have been taken to institute Joe Biden as Acting President.

When you put it all together it turns out that we actually had a situation (albeit lasting only a few minutes) in which the United States of America had an entirely powerless executive branch of government.

So you can take your fucking rant and shove it up your ass.

 

[Jon]

If you look at my posts, Reilly's posts, and jsanders posts, all of us acknowledge that Obama was president at noon.

I have? I said that the Supreme Court would likely rule that he was, but I personally see it a different way. No oath means not qualified means not President.

 

[Paulie]

I have? I said that the Supreme Court would likely rule that he was, but I personally see it a different way. No oath means not qualified means not President.

Aw, don't ruin it for her. She's basking in her legal greatness right now.

 

[Luissa]

OK - I explained what Gates was as the designated successor and that he did not apply to our discussion, and you agreed with me when you said "Yes". Gates is irrelevant to the three minutes following noon that we have been discussing. So what is your point?

YOu called her designated successor which she was not that is my point, she was just someone who was in line before him if everyone was still alive to be President.
Also for anyone else to be President for those three minutes they would all had to resign their position including Biden who took the oath to be VP. You can't still hold another office and be President. And if any did resign they would either have to be reaffirmed or re-elected!

 

[Gord]

YOu called her designated successor which she was not that is my point, she was just someone who was in line before him if everyone was still alive to be President.
Also for anyone else to be President for those three minutes they would all had to resign their position including Biden who took the oath to be VP. You can't still hold another office and be President. And if any did resign they would either have to be reaffirmed or re-elected!

Did you read the thread? This has already been dealt with. She was the successor that was eligible at the time. She held an unelected position and had already pledged allegience. Gates was further down the line.

 

[jillian]

Why else swear Biden in first?

Just tradition.... always lead up to the big prize... kind of like the Academy Awards.

If every VP were president even for a minute, we'd have had a lot more than 44 presidents, no?