Obamacare causes prices to skyrocket

[Sun Devil 92]

This has been explained to you people numerous times before, and you still don't get it. But, hey, if Alex Jones says it, it must be true.

I can only imagine what kind of absurd explanation you have for why it is ok for Obamacare to drastically increase the cost of healthcare when the entire premise for the unconstitutional disaster was that healthcare costs were too high...

It has not increased the cost of health care.

It has increased the cost of health insurance.

It has made insurance companies very profitable.

I can't see what you are addressing, but I know who you are....I've got them on ignore.

But, I'll bet you don't get any kind of explanation at all. You'll just get some stupidassed left wing answer.....

"It has not increased the cost of healthcare - it had increased the cost of health insurance"

First of all - health insurance costs are healthcare costs. I pay for health insurance specifically for my healthcare.

Second - insurance costs go up to cover healthcare costs (which have gone up)

Third - Obama and the Dumbocrats said people couldn't afford health insurance and that was also why we needed Obamacare.

Epic fail by them. Epic fail by you to make excuses for their epic fail.

Not altogether true.

As CATO states, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance ILLEGAL.

Way to much garbage in the 10 essentials.

Insurance administration also costs money.

I know people who work at hospitals who say they've tripled the staff they used to have to take care of of the Obamacare BS.

If you want to throwstones and the democrats go ahead. The GOP had plenty of opportunity to address this issue (and it has been a huge issue for a long time) for many years so we would NOT have a a government solution.

Instead they started a bunch of wars.

Good job.

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

This has been explained to you people numerous times before, and you still don't get it. But, hey, if Alex Jones says it, it must be true.

I can only imagine what kind of absurd explanation you have for why it is ok for Obamacare to drastically increase the cost of healthcare when the entire premise for the unconstitutional disaster was that healthcare costs were too high...

It has not increased the cost of health care.

It has increased the cost of health insurance.

It has made insurance companies very profitable.

I can't see what you are addressing, but I know who you are....I've got them on ignore.

But, I'll bet you don't get any kind of explanation at all. You'll just get some stupidassed left wing answer.....

"It has not increased the cost of healthcare - it had increased the cost of health insurance"

First of all - health insurance costs are healthcare costs. I pay for health insurance specifically for my healthcare.

Second - insurance costs go up to cover healthcare costs (which have gone up)

Third - Obama and the Dumbocrats said people couldn't afford health insurance and that was also why we needed Obamacare.

Epic fail by them. Epic fail by you to make excuses for their epic fail.

Epic fail by you for (A) not understanding the history of health insurance cost increases and reacting with and (B) not understanding which side of the issue Sun Devil's on because you can't even bother reading any other thread in this forum or the ObamaCare one.

Keep going, though. This is fun.

Great "logic" on your behalf. The statistical facts being reported in the media today are irrelevant and should be ignored because you believe I haven't "bothered to read other threads in this forum".

Incidentally junior - how do you know what I've read and haven't read? Do you work for the NSA?

I can't see the quote which tells me that you've got someone in the reply I have on ignore.

I would suggest you not waste your time.

It's like talking to a Hillary-bot.

 

[P@triot]

I can only imagine what kind of absurd explanation you have for why it is ok for Obamacare to drastically increase the cost of healthcare when the entire premise for the unconstitutional disaster was that healthcare costs were too high...

It has not increased the cost of health care.

It has increased the cost of health insurance.

It has made insurance companies very profitable.

I can't see what you are addressing, but I know who you are....I've got them on ignore.

But, I'll bet you don't get any kind of explanation at all. You'll just get some stupidassed left wing answer.....

"It has not increased the cost of healthcare - it had increased the cost of health insurance"

First of all - health insurance costs are healthcare costs. I pay for health insurance specifically for my healthcare.

Second - insurance costs go up to cover healthcare costs (which have gone up)

Third - Obama and the Dumbocrats said people couldn't afford health insurance and that was also why we needed Obamacare.

Epic fail by them. Epic fail by you to make excuses for their epic fail.

Not altogether true.

As CATO states, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance ILLEGAL.

Way to much garbage in the 10 essentials.

Insurance administration also costs money.

I know people who work at hospitals who say they've tripled the staff they used to have to take care of of the Obamacare BS.

If you want to throwstones and the democrats go ahead. The GOP had plenty of opportunity to address this issue (and it has been a huge issue for a long time) for many years so we would NOT have a a government solution.

Instead they started a bunch of wars.

Good job.

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It has not increased the cost of health care.

It has increased the cost of health insurance.

It has made insurance companies very profitable.

I can't see what you are addressing, but I know who you are....I've got them on ignore.

But, I'll bet you don't get any kind of explanation at all. You'll just get some stupidassed left wing answer.....

"It has not increased the cost of healthcare - it had increased the cost of health insurance"

First of all - health insurance costs are healthcare costs. I pay for health insurance specifically for my healthcare.

Second - insurance costs go up to cover healthcare costs (which have gone up)

Third - Obama and the Dumbocrats said people couldn't afford health insurance and that was also why we needed Obamacare.

Epic fail by them. Epic fail by you to make excuses for their epic fail.

Not altogether true.

As CATO states, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance ILLEGAL.

Way to much garbage in the 10 essentials.

Insurance administration also costs money.

I know people who work at hospitals who say they've tripled the staff they used to have to take care of of the Obamacare BS.

If you want to throwstones and the democrats go ahead. The GOP had plenty of opportunity to address this issue (and it has been a huge issue for a long time) for many years so we would NOT have a a government solution.

Instead they started a bunch of wars.

Good job.

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

I can't think of anything more silly than this.

Elected representatives....high visiblity people who have access to information on issues.....can't comment or lead a discussion on health care.

That's just funny.

 

[Arianrhod]

The statistical facts being reported in the media today are irrelevant and should be ignored ...

Is that the conclusion you draw? It's worse than I thought.

 

[P@triot]

"It has not increased the cost of healthcare - it had increased the cost of health insurance"

First of all - health insurance costs are healthcare costs. I pay for health insurance specifically for my healthcare.

Second - insurance costs go up to cover healthcare costs (which have gone up)

Third - Obama and the Dumbocrats said people couldn't afford health insurance and that was also why we needed Obamacare.

Epic fail by them. Epic fail by you to make excuses for their epic fail.

Not altogether true.

As CATO states, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance ILLEGAL.

Way to much garbage in the 10 essentials.

Insurance administration also costs money.

I know people who work at hospitals who say they've tripled the staff they used to have to take care of of the Obamacare BS.

If you want to throwstones and the democrats go ahead. The GOP had plenty of opportunity to address this issue (and it has been a huge issue for a long time) for many years so we would NOT have a a government solution.

Instead they started a bunch of wars.

Good job.

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

I can't think of anything more silly than this.

Elected representatives....high visiblity people who have access to information on issues.....can't comment or lead a discussion on health care.

That's just funny.

Yeah....how silly that elected representatives should be legally bound to the law and have their powers restricted by the U.S. Constitution.

You know a person has lost the argument when their response is essentially "this is so silly....of course elected representatives are above the law".

By the way junior - we ALL have "access to information". We're a free society and in this day and age of technology, the entire world's information is at our fingertips.

You are incapable of making a rational argument on this one. Everything you've said is bizarre and flat out wrong. We all have "access to information" (I can't stop laughing about such a third grade attempt at making a weak argument) and it is literally illegal for the federal government to engage in healthcare as it is not one of the 18 enumerated powers granted to them by the states in the Constitution.

 

[Geaux4it]

Wait....I thought Obama said that we needed Obamacare because the costs of healthcare were just too much???

Thanks Obamacare: This Is What Americans Spent Most Money On In 2015

I was suppose to save $2000 a year, right?

-Geaux

 

[P@triot]

The statistical facts being reported in the media today are irrelevant and should be ignored ...

Is that the conclusion you draw? It's worse than I thought.

Sadly that is the weak argument that you made after the facts proved your position was wrong and left you with no other direction to go in.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Rottweiler dblack Dale Smith The Professor Geaux4it
Thank you for posting and being here. It helps to have people who understand and think along the same
lines and know what each other is even saying!
I had gone through several months of what I call "political depression" when I first realized that
liberals had such engrained beliefs, they couldn't even recognize their own biases or see the
beliefs of others as valid. They believe those views are wrong just like atheists cannot see how
any concept of God could possibly be real. Their brains are just wired to think in secular terms,
and liberals only think in terms of rights coming through govt in order to be real.

Differences in Conservative and Liberal Brains - 2012 Presidential Election - ProCon.org

I appreciate being able to connect with likeminded people. It helps a lot to have consistent
support so that I can perfect how to spell out these points, where eventually the mainstream
liberals can grasp how they are abusing govt to infringe on the beliefs of others, instead of taking this for
granted or discrediting it in their minds.

If I can organize a regular team of petitions to push, I'd like to campaign to have
Constitutionalism recognized as a political religion and push for equal protection of all beliefs
from infringement by govt. Of course it is impossible to separate Constitutionalism from govt,
and that's the same problem liberals are having, unable to separate their beliefs about health
care and abortion rights from govt either. If we cannot separate, then we need to unite on
points and policies of agreement, and agree to relegate areas we disagree to parties or
states outside of federal govt so we don't establish national mandates not all people believe in.

I am sick and tired of being harassed for my views, called a bigot, a racist, etc.

If I cannot get anyone to respect my views, I can at least start a campaign where I accept
responsibility for defending the beliefs of others, raising funds for restitution for damages
and costs incurred by ACA and other unconstitutional requirements (like fines imposed on
businesses for refraining from participation on gay weddings), and conflict resolution to
try to keep policies central and neutral and not biased one way or another, but respecting
equal inclusion under Constitutional standards and ethics.

I will ask public help to raise 10 million to set up a Constitutional center for outreach,
mediation and fundraising to cover these costs.

I am thinking the reason people don't want to think about change is the cost of
corrections and restitution if these violations were recognized.

So if I offer to help raise the money to pay the costs of corrections, maybe
that will attract interest and open minds to the process instead of refusing to consider.

I think it is too scary to consider the enormity of change involved across the
different institutions: the govt, the media, the schools and prisons, and economy.
Everything would shift if the control and funding of programs shifted back to
people and out of the backlogged bureaucracy our federal govt is tied up in.

Thank you again and I hope we can spell out how these
changes can take place logistically, invite all the R and D candidates
for office to join in shaping collaborate plans, organized in teams,
and quit this blindsighted bickering of pushing one agenda and cutting out the other.

A better way is right around the corner, when we
are ready to make that turn. Thanks and God Bless!

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[emilynghiem]

Wait....I thought Obama said that we needed Obamacare because the costs of healthcare were just too much???

Thanks Obamacare: This Is What Americans Spent Most Money On In 2015

I was suppose to save $2000 a year, right?

-Geaux

Dear Geaux4it

This reminds me of how it would save people "more money"
by paying off debts sooner with bigger payments each month.

But if they can't afford that, it is still easier to pay less each month
and take longer with more interest. At least the other household costs
can be covered instead of dropping everything else to try to reduce that debt!

This business of deciding someone's ability to pay out of their income
does not account for other costs that have to come from that income.

And what price can you put on someone's freedom?

That part isn't even taken into account!

It is equally disturbing to me that since this set up does not cover
all health care costs for either covered people or those without insurance,
this means money will still need to be spent on "other means of covering health care."

So why fine people if "other means" are still needed anyway?
If those other means and choices are still needed, why are they being fined?

Never mind, I cannot think this way and just
have to be avoid being under this. Please see other msg.
I am thinking to set up a fund to pay for memberships for
all other objectors who cannot be under this system without violating their rights and beliefs.

And just focus on saving our sanity, which is worth the cost
of buying everyone a membership in the cheapest health sharing ministry available.

That's cheaper than arguing in circles going nowhere
while no lawyers or legislators will take this on.

If that's the cheapest way to OPT OUT, I will launch a campaign
to assess the cost to buy everyone's freedom who wants out of this deal.
and charge the cost back to Democrats who signed for it,
because we certainly didn't agree to pay for all this!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Not altogether true.

As CATO states, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance ILLEGAL.

Way to much garbage in the 10 essentials.

Insurance administration also costs money.

I know people who work at hospitals who say they've tripled the staff they used to have to take care of of the Obamacare BS.

If you want to throwstones and the democrats go ahead. The GOP had plenty of opportunity to address this issue (and it has been a huge issue for a long time) for many years so we would NOT have a a government solution.

Instead they started a bunch of wars.

Good job.

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

I can't think of anything more silly than this.

Elected representatives....high visiblity people who have access to information on issues.....can't comment or lead a discussion on health care.

That's just funny.

Yeah....how silly that elected representatives should be legally bound to the law and have their powers restricted by the U.S. Constitution.

Please show me that I ever argued against that.

You are the one who is arguing they can't behave like citizens and lead a "conversation" on a topic.

The NRC was totally absent from the conversation as was just about every other conservative or establishment group.

NO LEADERSHIP.

That's what both parties have....nothing.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

By the way junior - we ALL have "access to information". We're a free society and in this day and age of technology, the entire world's information is at our fingertips.

Well, dickweed....that got us what ?

Obamacare.

Obama.

A public that does not care that the SCOTUS is all but running the place.

It also has a public that understands little about the Constitution.

Good job with that information.

Bring on MSNBC, FoxNews, Drudge, DailyKOS.

 

[HenryBHough]

Fella I knew actually did save $2,500 after the inception of Obamacare.

He died.

 

[P@triot]

By the way junior - we ALL have "access to information". We're a free society and in this day and age of technology, the entire world's information is at our fingertips.

Well, dickweed....that got us what ?

Obamacare.

Obama.

A public that does not care that the SCOTUS is all but running the place.

It also has a public that understands little about the Constitution.

Good job with that information.

Bring on MSNBC, FoxNews, Drudge, DailyKOS.

No genius...the cancer known as liberalism got us Obamacare. Raising lazy generations who believe that other people owe them stuff got us Obamacare. People like you who believe the Constitution doesn't matter and the ends justify the means got us Obamacare.

 

[P@triot]

Well that is interesting. How could the GOP (representatives in government) "address this issue" (direct quote from you) and yet "not" be a "government solution"?

If if the GOP did anything to interfere, then it is in fact a "government solution".

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

I can't think of anything more silly than this.

Elected representatives....high visiblity people who have access to information on issues.....can't comment or lead a discussion on health care.

That's just funny.

Yeah....how silly that elected representatives should be legally bound to the law and have their powers restricted by the U.S. Constitution.

Please show me that I ever argued against that.

You are the one who is arguing they can't behave like citizens and lead a "conversation" on a topic.

The NRC was totally absent from the conversation as was just about every other conservative or establishment group.

NO LEADERSHIP.

That's what both parties have....nothing.

Read above...where you said over and over that they should "lead" a conversation about an issue in which they have absolutely zero authority to be involved. It's as absurd as stating that a Microsoft employee on the clock should "lead" discussions about diversity at Google. That is not their job and their employer would be pretty pissed off that they were wasting company time on something they were not hired to do. The American tax payer (those of us informed anyway - which apparently excludes you since I had to explain the powers and responsibilities of the federal government) are furious when the people we pay to do a job decide to do whatever they want on "company time".

 

[Geaux4it]

Government dependence.. That's what this is about.

They want us government dependent and are calling on many fronts. What I find striking is we have one of the biggest government programs in that of Social Security failing right before our eyes. All managed by our competent folks in the government. But things in SS are not fairing so well. The halls are ringing with calls to privatize SS due to mismanagement by the government. And so to goes Obamacare. I find it hard to understand how anyone could possibly believe that after seeing the demise of SS, and the calls to privatize, that Obamacare somehow will come out different

Really?

-Geaux

 

[P@triot]

Government dependence.. That's what this is about.

They want us government dependent and are calling on many fronts. What I find striking is we have one of the biggest government programs in that of Social Security failing right before our eyes. All managed by our competent folks in the government. But things in SS are not fairing so well. The halls are ringing with calls to privatize SS due to mismanagement by the government. And so to goes Obamacare. I find it hard to understand how anyone could possibly believe that after seeing the demise of SS, and the calls to privatize, that Obamacare somehow will come out different

Really?

-Geaux

Actually, I can. Liberalism is the complete and total absence of intellectualism. It is entirely based on feelings. And so the liberal ignores facts and data for what feels good to them. They won't feed the hungry or pay for the health insurance policy of someone else with their money (oh no, no, no - they are greedy hoarding capitalists when it comes to that) but they will pull a lever for communism because that makes them feel good. In their mind, they "cared" and "did" something for the less fortunate (even though what they did was put more people out of work, created a worse economy, and destroyed rights, freedoms, and the Constitution).

 

[Sun Devil 92]

By the way junior - we ALL have "access to information". We're a free society and in this day and age of technology, the entire world's information is at our fingertips.

Well, dickweed....that got us what ?

Obamacare.

Obama.

A public that does not care that the SCOTUS is all but running the place.

It also has a public that understands little about the Constitution.

Good job with that information.

Bring on MSNBC, FoxNews, Drudge, DailyKOS.

No genius...the cancer known as liberalism got us Obamacare. Raising lazy generations who believe that other people owe them stuff got us Obamacare. People like you who believe the Constitution doesn't matter and the ends justify the means got us Obamacare.

Blah blah blah blah.....

So you can't really support your argument.....

1. Show me where I said the Constitution does not matter.

2. Liberalism is not the far left.

3. The GOP is just as responsible for Obamacare as Obama.

Your tattered little assault on the poor is of no value. Many of them are conservative. They are not lazy.

I got us Obamacare ? You are a total moron. I've been against it from the start...and you'll see that if you look at most of my posts.

Idiot.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Government dependence.. That's what this is about.

They want us government dependent and are calling on many fronts. What I find striking is we have one of the biggest government programs in that of Social Security failing right before our eyes. All managed by our competent folks in the government. But things in SS are not fairing so well. The halls are ringing with calls to privatize SS due to mismanagement by the government. And so to goes Obamacare. I find it hard to understand how anyone could possibly believe that after seeing the demise of SS, and the calls to privatize, that Obamacare somehow will come out different

Really?

-Geaux

Actually, I can. Liberalism is the complete and total absence of intellectualism. It is entirely based on feelings. And so the liberal ignores facts and data for what feels good to them. They won't feed the hungry or pay for the health insurance policy of someone else with their money (oh no, no, no - they are greedy hoarding capitalists when it comes to that) but they will pull a lever for communism because that makes them feel good. In their mind, they "cared" and "did" something for the less fortunate (even though what they did was put more people out of work, created a worse economy, and destroyed rights, freedoms, and the Constitution).

That's the far left.

Liberals are great thinkers.

Obama isn't a liberal....he's the far left.

Your overgeneralization shows how little you value true education.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You don't think that the GOP could have called the industry together and said....you figure out how to fix this ?

Yes they could.

You don't think the GOP could have led a discussion on what constitutes "good performance" when it comes to health insurance delivery.

Yes they could.

And had they....we could have avoided these issues.

Or do you think legislators are not leaders too ?

IOW: The GOP could have made good use the "bully pulpit" to lead a good conversation on this topic. Instead, they ignored it and we got Obamacare.

Are legislators "leaders"? Not.....at....all. They are legally bound by the U.S. Constitution (if we're talking federal), state constitutions, etc. as to what they can have their hands in and what they can't. The U.S. Constitution authorizes the federal government with 18 enumerated powers and healthcare and/or health insurance is not one of them.

With that in mind, why in the world would the GOP waste their time addressing something that they are not legally permitted to be involved with while on the job? It doens't make any sense. They are not our "leaders" - they are our elected representatives.

The view of our government by today's Americans is downright bone-chilling frightening. Countries like North Korea refer to their "leaders". We have elected representatives. It's so tragic that we continue to hand over to them powers and titles which they shouldn't have and never did.

I can't think of anything more silly than this.

Elected representatives....high visiblity people who have access to information on issues.....can't comment or lead a discussion on health care.

That's just funny.

Yeah....how silly that elected representatives should be legally bound to the law and have their powers restricted by the U.S. Constitution.

Please show me that I ever argued against that.

You are the one who is arguing they can't behave like citizens and lead a "conversation" on a topic.

The NRC was totally absent from the conversation as was just about every other conservative or establishment group.

NO LEADERSHIP.

That's what both parties have....nothing.

Read above...where you said over and over that they should "lead" a conversation about an issue in which they have absolutely zero authority to be involved. It's as absurd as stating that a Microsoft employee on the clock should "lead" discussions about diversity at Google. That is not their job and their employer would be pretty pissed off that they were wasting company time on something they were not hired to do. The American tax payer (those of us informed anyway - which apparently excludes you since I had to explain the powers and responsibilities of the federal government) are furious when the people we pay to do a job decide to do whatever they want on "company time".

Yes, there is nothing that says they could not lead a discussio non it.

You are pretty dense...you don't need authority to take the bully pulpit and hold a discussion.

Or maybe I should explain....leading a discussion does not mean legislating it.

They are citizens....they have as much right to lead on an issue as anyone else.

Your analogy is worthless.

Companies always value employees who go above and beyond. They were hired to legislate. In the case of conservatives, the idea is to avoid legislating things. You are the poor uninformed moron who does not realize that there are people like Rahm Emmanual out there who will use crisis' to push an agenda.

Had the GOP been out in front with discussions on non governmental solutions (or in this case an effort stop propping up the insurance industry), they would have a avoided this.

Obamacare caught the GOP flatfooted, still recovering from a couple of stupid wars.

They are as guilty as Obama.

Sorry to ruin your hero worship.

And stop with your stupid talking points.

I cite Federalist 45 more than anyone around here in defense of a limited federal government. You, just can't wait to jizz your drawers posting your little self-righteous lectures.