Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[Dragon]

This Government is the Innocent Victim Fallacy is just too much. It's killing me.

Are you deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, or is this honest confusion?

 

[Intense]

This is why I dont understand why the OWS people didn't occupy the capital instead....that is where the laws originated that allowed wallstreet/banks to get away with risky behavior in the first place and its also where the laws originated that gave these same corporations and banks TRILLIONS of ALL OF OUR money.

Because all of the things the government did were done due to the string-pulling by big business. The ultimate control rests in Wall Street -- although the ultimate potential control does indeed reside in Washington. Big business' only power over the government is through bribery and corruption, not force. That is not true in the other direction.

Still, the Wall Street end of the corruption stick was being ignored, along with the need for jobs, with everything focusing on the deficit instead. I think the movement picked exactly the right target.

This Government is the Innocent Victim Fallacy is just too much. It's killing me.

The Ultimate Control rests with Government, which has the Force of Law behind it, the Cops, the Investigators, the Courts, the Prisons, the Military, and Access to All of Our Property. I'm not misrepresenting anything. The Right Target is Progressive Statism, which seeks Centralized control of Our Lives, 24/7, Cradle to Grave. Government by the Consent of the Governed is Justified, that is not the Issue, the issue is Government Overreach, which set up the pins to fall.

 

[georgephillip]

I can always count on you, Georgephillip, to see beyond the headlines.

You're one of the reasons I still bother posting here.

Thanks!

"Next week President Obama travels to Wall Street where he’ll demand – in light of the Street’s continuing antics since the bailout, as well as its role in watering-down the Volcker rule – that the Glass-Steagall Act be resurrected and big banks be broken up.

"I’m kidding. But it would be a smart move — politically and economically.

"Politically smart because Mitt Romney is almost sure to be the Republican nominee, and Romney is the poster child for the pump-and-dump mentality that’s infected the financial industry and continues to jeopardize the American economy."

Wall Street dodged the bullet in 2008 when it found a rock star with roots to Lincoln to hide behind. If the economy in 2012 is anything like the one in 2008, the attention spans of American voters could be just as focused as they were during the week after 9/11/01.

We could roll back forty years of investor class assaults on the New Deal in as many months or weeks if enough Republicans AND Democrats are FLUSHED into retirement (and prison).

If enough Boomers get out in front of OWS (in spite of its birth pangs) maybe we can even the score for MLK, RFK, and JFK? Whatever happens, OWS will certainly be among us in November 2012.

Robert Reich (Wall Street is Still Out of Control, and Why Obama Should Call for Glass-Steagall and a Breakup of Big Banks)

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is why I dont understand why the OWS people didn't occupy the capital instead....that is where the laws originated that allowed wallstreet/banks to get away with risky behavior in the first place and its also where the laws originated that gave these same corporations and banks TRILLIONS of ALL OF OUR money.

Because all of the things the government did were done due to the string-pulling by big business. The ultimate control rests in Wall Street -- although the ultimate potential control does indeed reside in Washington. Big business' only power over the government is through bribery and corruption, not force. That is not true in the other direction.

Still, the Wall Street end of the corruption stick was being ignored, along with the need for jobs, with everything focusing on the deficit instead. I think the movement picked exactly the right target.

What?!?!?! That response made me feel a bit exacerbated, sorry.

Big business askes the politicians to do something and the politicians didn't have to say YES....the politicians could have said no but they didn't.....you are blaming the wrong people, the one's who hold the pens that write these laws are the congress not the corporations.


Who was ignoring the Wall Street end of the corruption stick? The government.......who gave banks/corps bailouts and coroporate welfare when they screwed up and should have went bankrupt? The government........who was passing laws like the equal housing act that allowed banks to do risky lending which caused a lot of the crisis? the govt.

Your dissatisfaction is directed at the wrong people.

 

[georgephillip]

There's been a delayed reaction in Europe to Wall Street's latest pump and dump scam that crashed the US economy in 2008:

Robert Reich explains:

"It’s impossible to know, for example, the exposure of the Street to European banks in danger of going under. To stay afloat, Europe’s banks will be forced to sell mountains of assets – among them, derivatives originating on the Street – and may have to reneg on or delay some repayments on loans from Wall Street banks.

"The Street says it’s not worried because these assets are insured. But remember AIG?

"The fact Morgan Stanley and other big U.S. banks are taking a beating in the market suggests investors don’t believe the Street.

"This itself proves financial reform hasn’t gone far enough.

"If you want more evidence, consider the fancy footwork by Bank of America in recent days. Hit by a credit downgrade last month, BofA just moved its riskiest derivatives from its Merrill Lynch unit to a retail subsidiary flush with insured deposits.

"That unit has a higher credit rating because the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (that is, you and me and other taxpayers) are backing the deposits.

"Result: BofA improves its bottom line at the expense of American taxpayers."

Robert Reich (Wall Street is Still Out of Control, and Why Obama Should Call for Glass-Steagall and a Breakup of Big Banks)

The 1% will soon be back for even bigger bailouts than in 2008.

What will you have to say when their pet pigs in congress squeal "martial law" again?

This is why I dont understand why the OWS people didn't occupy the capital instead....that is where the laws originated that allowed wallstreet/banks to get away with risky behavior in the first place and its also where the laws originated that gave these same corporations and banks TRILLIONS of ALL OF OUR money.

To the Media and Whoever it May Concern | Occupy DC

Occupy DC has just opened a second front on K-Street.

The 1% depend on Treasury and the Fed at least as much as Wall Street.

 

[Dot Com]

Thanks Republicans

​

 

[Intense]

This is why I dont understand why the OWS people didn't occupy the capital instead....that is where the laws originated that allowed wallstreet/banks to get away with risky behavior in the first place and its also where the laws originated that gave these same corporations and banks TRILLIONS of ALL OF OUR money.

Because all of the things the government did were done due to the string-pulling by big business. The ultimate control rests in Wall Street -- although the ultimate potential control does indeed reside in Washington. Big business' only power over the government is through bribery and corruption, not force. That is not true in the other direction.

Still, the Wall Street end of the corruption stick was being ignored, along with the need for jobs, with everything focusing on the deficit instead. I think the movement picked exactly the right target.

What?!?!?! That response made me feel a bit exacerbated, sorry.

Big business askes the politicians to do something and the politicians didn't have to say YES....the politicians could have said no but they didn't.....you are blaming the wrong people, the one's who hold the pens that write these laws are the congress not the corporations.


Who was ignoring the Wall Street end of the corruption stick? The government.......who gave banks/corps bailouts and coroporate welfare when they screwed up and should have went bankrupt? The government........who was passing laws like the equal housing act that allowed banks to do risky lending which caused a lot of the crisis? the govt.

Your dissatisfaction is directed at the wrong people.

Who's sitting at those Politicians Family Holiday Tables?

 

[Intense]

Thanks Republicans

​

Stop Punishing Small Enterprise. Stop Punishing Achievement.

 

[Samson]

It isn't likely Democrats or Republicans will prosecute Wall Street today unless there is a powerful grass roots movement that makes them do it.

Well, it would help if Wall Street was an individual, and that there were laws that were broken.

Who is "Wall Street?"

What Laws did they break?

I'm not saying that there are no improvements to be made, however, as any 401(k) holder that wants to see his government-incentivised retirement fund increase in value (same as their property investment, i.e. "home,") many Americans ARE Wall Street.

The following post from July 2009 offers a pretty good starting point.



I would think reparations are in order for many investors and homeowners.

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

Surely you jest.



When I asked if any laws had been broken, I expected a little more substantive answer than just the blogosphere ravings of James Quinn, a senior director of strategic planning for a major university who has held financial positions with a retailer, homebuilder and university in his 22-year career. Those positions included treasurer, controller, and head of strategic planning.

The fact that you have no idea who "Wall Street" is, only compounds the already low credability of your unsound position.

 

[georgephillip]

Well, it would help if Wall Street was an individual, and that there were laws that were broken.

Who is "Wall Street?"

What Laws did they break?

I'm not saying that there are no improvements to be made, however, as any 401(k) holder that wants to see his government-incentivised retirement fund increase in value (same as their property investment, i.e. "home,") many Americans ARE Wall Street.

The following post from July 2009 offers a pretty good starting point.



I would think reparations are in order for many investors and homeowners.

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

Surely you jest.



When I asked if any laws had been broken, I expected a little more substantive answer than just the blogosphere ravings of James Quinn, a senior director of strategic planning for a major university who has held financial positions with a retailer, homebuilder and university in his 22-year career. Those positions included treasurer, controller, and head of strategic planning.

The fact that you have no idea who "Wall Street" is, only compounds the already low credability of your unsound position.

Are you trying to say Wall Street fraud played no role in crashing the global economy?

 

[Dragon]

I'm not misrepresenting anything.

You certainly are, because I neither said nor implied that the government was an "innocent victim." But I'm satisfied now that it was an honest mistake.

Just for clarification, the government has been a corrupt partner in crime with big business. Neither innocent nor a victim. But not the only culprit, either, and it's very important to indict the business end of the connection, too.

Incidentally, asking about business behavior "what laws have been broken?" ignores the fact that the business lobby ensures that the laws are written so as to make their misbehavior legal. When big business breaks the law, it has done something clumsy and inept. Most of the time, it only does things that should be criminal, not things that actually are.

 

[Samson]

The following post from July 2009 offers a pretty good starting point.



I would think reparations are in order for many investors and homeowners.

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

Surely you jest.



When I asked if any laws had been broken, I expected a little more substantive answer than just the blogosphere ravings of James Quinn, a senior director of strategic planning for a major university who has held financial positions with a retailer, homebuilder and university in his 22-year career. Those positions included treasurer, controller, and head of strategic planning.

The fact that you have no idea who "Wall Street" is, only compounds the already low credability of your unsound position.

Are you trying to say Wall Street fraud played no role in crashing the global economy?

I'm saying that you have no notion of what you're talking about because the question remains: Who EXACTLY IS "Wall Street?"

You and the OWS crowd seems to have the absurd notion that attacking this windmill will slay all the dragons that have caused an inconvenient discontinuance of 99 weeks worth of Unemployment Insurance.

 

[Big Fitz]

Thanks Republicans

​

I could give you a good example how that works, but you wouldn't believe it. You've a vested interest in believing you're 'right'.

 

[Preius]

The following post from July 2009 offers a pretty good starting point.

"This is F%$#ing criminal. Only the biggest bastard banks with the biggest fastest computers with models created by the biggest bunch of immoral MBAs in the history of the planet can get away with it. How much of Goldman's profit came about this way?

"Why isn't the SEC doing something about it. This is fraud. Why isn't that blathering fool Barney Frank outraged by this? Why isn't Schumer and Dodd up in arms? You know why.

"Because they want the banks to make money any way they can.

"Geithner is applauding this news."

Pensions and home values were plundered by some of the richest 1% of individuals in this country along with elected Republicans AND Democrats ranging from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush. Chris Dodd to Phil Gramm. Barney Frank and Tom DeLay.

I would think reparations are in order for many investors and homeowners.

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

Got to tell you, I have supported Obama up until he started playing poker with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid during the debt ceiling talks. Basically, his last chance with me is make this American Jobs Act work. If he fails, I will support Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries.

In 2008 Obama came into office, controlled both houses of Congress, and added billions to the TARP - Wall Street Bail Out. Since that time have you seen ANY financial restructuring of America? Did anyone hold hearings on the Wall Street Bail Out? Did anyone go to jail? Main Street is broke, and Wall Street is rolling high again.

What has our treasured Democratic Party done for the average American? One thing, extend unemployment benefits when Americans are screaming for JOBS. Now you see why my avatar says, "feel politically homeless." OWS is a about all we have, and big city mayors are f*ucking that up.

85 arrested in Oakland, CA yesterday as mayor pressures OWS​

Several months ago the corporate press noted how quickly Bill Clinton earned his first $100 million.

If Obama gets a second term he will likely succeed in privatizing Social Security and earn his first $billion in less time than Clinton needed to reach 100 million.

There are multiple established third party candidates already appearing on every California ballot.
In theory, the internet could be used to convince millions of California voters to vote AGAINST every Republican AND Democrat running for reelection in 2012 at all levels of government.

This "anti-vote" argument usually results in millions of eligible voters refusing to participate in elections. Sometimes 30% to 40% of those who could cast their ballot simply don't see anything worth voting for.

Providing an option to vote AGAINST Wall Street and the Pentagon by FLUSHING Republicans and Democrats from DC in 2012 could give Obama more Hope and Change than he can handle.

Believe me, the last thing this Dem wants to hear is more negative about our Democratic president. We in the Democratic base have serious questions about his commitment to the Democratic Party. I need an extremely credible link that President Obama would privatize Social Security.

Obama is a phoney liberal, but if he tried to privatize Social Security the Democrats would impeach him for the Republicans. I am going to follow up with you on your claim. You had best be able to back it up. I think it is BS.

Republicans can not be content with the political chaos in Washington, they tend to oversell their point, and usually lose the entire argument. Somehow I have a feeling that georgephillip will be quietly dancing away from 'privatized Social Security' in this thread.

 

[chanel]

"Wall Street" did very well today. I guess we all should be angry, eh?

 

[Preius]

Because all of the things the government did were done due to the string-pulling by big business. The ultimate control rests in Wall Street -- although the ultimate potential control does indeed reside in Washington. Big business' only power over the government is through bribery and corruption, not force. That is not true in the other direction.

Still, the Wall Street end of the corruption stick was being ignored, along with the need for jobs, with everything focusing on the deficit instead. I think the movement picked exactly the right target.

This Government is the Innocent Victim Fallacy is just too much. It's killing me.

The Ultimate Control rests with Government, which has the Force of Law behind it, the Cops, the Investigators, the Courts, the Prisons, the Military, and Access to All of Our Property. I'm not misrepresenting anything. The Right Target is Progressive Statism, which seeks Centralized control of Our Lives, 24/7, Cradle to Grave. Government by the Consent of the Governed is Justified, that is not the Issue, the issue is Government Overreach, which set up the pins to fall.

I beg to differ with you. The ultimate control will be the upper 1%. I keep posting on the "Patriotic Millionaires" but posters seem to want to believe that the 1% all see things the same way. Patriotic Millionaires For Fiscal Strength The millionaires I have read about, or have met see 'money as a tool to build things,' not an end in itself.

The only reason the American Revolution took place is because the wealthy wanted it. The global economy is getting it's back up against the wall these days. If we need to refinance the planet we will. You can not possibly believe that the most powerful military force on the planet, the United States, is going to go under because of numbers printed on pieces of paper? The UK, France, Spain, Portugal,Italy, Greece, Russia, China, and Japan will find a 'fix.'

Hey............. I just realized that like the United States all those countries had empires at one time. Hmmm.........bet they know a few secret economic things you and I don't.

Remember, if the big crash is coming, we go down they go down too. Go convert 30% of your portfolio to precious metals and relax!

Patriotic Millionaires are out there. My problem is I do not trust anyone.​

 

[georgephillip]

Surely you jest.



When I asked if any laws had been broken, I expected a little more substantive answer than just the blogosphere ravings of James Quinn, a senior director of strategic planning for a major university who has held financial positions with a retailer, homebuilder and university in his 22-year career. Those positions included treasurer, controller, and head of strategic planning.

The fact that you have no idea who "Wall Street" is, only compounds the already low credability of your unsound position.

Are you trying to say Wall Street fraud played no role in crashing the global economy?

I'm saying that you have no notion of what you're talking about because the question remains: Who EXACTLY IS "Wall Street?"

You and the OWS crowd seems to have the absurd notion that attacking this windmill will slay all the dragons that have caused an inconvenient discontinuance of 99 weeks worth of Unemployment Insurance.

"Wall Street refers to the financial district of New York City,[1] named after and centered on the eight-block-long street running from Broadway to South Street on the East River in Lower Manhattan. Over time, the term has become a metonym for the financial markets of the United States as a whole, or signifying New York-based financial interests..."

Wall Street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Assuming we agree that Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JP Morgan and Bank of America are part of Wall Street, can you refute James Quinn's analysis of Wall Street criminality?

"So, the Fed buys their toxic assets at 100% of value and then loans them money at .25%. We the taxpayers give them hundreds of billions of our hard earned tax dollars. They then turn around and screw us on every stock trade, making billions more in profit, and then charge us 21% on credit card balances with massive late fees if you are one day late.

Jamie Dimon, Blankfien, Lewis and Pandit are the scum of the earth. They should all be on trial and thrown into prison with Madoff and the rest of the whoring banking thieves."

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

 

[Intense]

This Government is the Innocent Victim Fallacy is just too much. It's killing me.

The Ultimate Control rests with Government, which has the Force of Law behind it, the Cops, the Investigators, the Courts, the Prisons, the Military, and Access to All of Our Property. I'm not misrepresenting anything. The Right Target is Progressive Statism, which seeks Centralized control of Our Lives, 24/7, Cradle to Grave. Government by the Consent of the Governed is Justified, that is not the Issue, the issue is Government Overreach, which set up the pins to fall.

I beg to differ with you. The ultimate control will be the upper 1%. I keep posting on the "Patriotic Millionaires" but posters seem to want to believe that the 1% all see things the same way. Patriotic Millionaires For Fiscal Strength The millionaires I have read about, or have met see 'money as a tool to build things,' not an end in itself.

The only reason the American Revolution took place is because the wealthy wanted it. The global economy is getting it's back up against the wall these days. If we need to refinance the planet we will. You can not possibly believe that the most powerful military force on the planet, the United States, is going to go under because of numbers printed on pieces of paper? The UK, France, Spain, Portugal,Italy, Greece, Russia, China, and Japan will find a 'fix.'

Hey............. I just realized that like the United States all those countries had empires at one time. Hmmm.........bet they know a few secret economic things you and I don't.

Remember, if the big crash is coming, we go down they go down too. Go convert 30% of your portfolio to precious metals and relax!

Patriotic Millionaires are out there. My problem is I do not trust anyone.​

It's nice to want things, huh. There's all different kinds of Power Preius. Money buys allot of things, it buys allot of People too. It doesn't buy Everything or Everyone though, something to keep in mind. We are a Nation of Laws, not Men, The Best Nations, the best Empires, know that. There are Principles so strong, no amount of money or even Power will Reign over them, not for long anyway, Our very Natures will oppose them.

You come off as one trying to steer, to manipulate, against reason, what you offer, is not what you deliver.

True, the one Percent have allot of influence and effect, their Property, having worth and Power, which they have every right to, within reason, just like you have the Power to effect with the resources under your control or ownership, within the Law.

Our Republic does seek to establish and maintain Law and Order, this is a constant process, that we need to serve Vigilantly. We Improve, We Amend, We Build on what works. We don't abandon it because those like you, may not like the hand they are dealt. Do the best with what you have. Make the most of it, find the formula that works for you, and share it, if it pleases you.

Disrespecting Free Will, or Private Property, is not a battle against Tyranny in any way, it is the application of Tyranny. It is Theft, it is a corruption of Principle. Creating Laws to end abuse, is one thing, in Establishing Justice, Gaining control of the Reins of abuse, so the control is transferred to you, with the abuse continuing, only now protected by Government is another. Are you more interested in Liberation or a more Powerful Government Bureaucracy, where your Sins are covered and hidden.

To establish True Liberty, You need to Establish Justice, for both Rich and Poor. Impartiality is the Focus, not respect for Person or Position, but fair resolution. It is about doing the Right thing, because it is the Right thing to do. I don't think there is a greater blessing.

Why play sides against each other, in the hopes of overthrowing the Government, without regard for the loss of life, or the Tyranny that will result?
Why not instead just learn to live within your means, and working with legitimate tools, which this Republic recognizes, work for a better Republic?

 

[Samson]

Are you trying to say Wall Street fraud played no role in crashing the global economy?

I'm saying that you have no notion of what you're talking about because the question remains: Who EXACTLY IS "Wall Street?"

You and the OWS crowd seems to have the absurd notion that attacking this windmill will slay all the dragons that have caused an inconvenient discontinuance of 99 weeks worth of Unemployment Insurance.

"Wall Street refers to the financial district of New York City,[1] named after and centered on the eight-block-long street running from Broadway to South Street on the East River in Lower Manhattan. Over time, the term has become a metonym for the financial markets of the United States as a whole, or signifying New York-based financial interests..."

Wall Street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Assuming we agree that Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JP Morgan and Bank of America are part of Wall Street, can you refute James Quinn's analysis of Wall Street criminality?

"So, the Fed buys their toxic assets at 100% of value and then loans them money at .25%. We the taxpayers give them hundreds of billions of our hard earned tax dollars. They then turn around and screw us on every stock trade, making billions more in profit, and then charge us 21% on credit card balances with massive late fees if you are one day late.

Jamie Dimon, Blankfien, Lewis and Pandit are the scum of the earth. They should all be on trial and thrown into prison with Madoff and the rest of the whoring banking thieves."

GOLDMAN, CITI, JP MORGAN & BOA ARE CRIMINALS - James Quinn - Seeking Alpha

What Law did Jamie Dimon break?

 

[Preius]

Here is an interesting video of the Oakland, California before the riot started. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fR2hx7yXjE]Occupy Oaklander goes off on Oakland Riot Police - YouTube[/ame]