Official USMB What is a Wall? Why a Wall?

[Lesh]

He’s the guy making the decisions, why would he ask a reporter such a ridiculous question?

Because he's a bullying asshole

 

[Correll]

1. If the end result of Trump's Wall is the status quo, that is a failure.

2. There is no reason that we cannot have all the reasonably accessible routs into the country, walled.

3. Who pays for it, is FAR less important, than there being a radical transformation of the border resulting in a massive decrease in the illegal population in this country.

If Trump was interested in unity rather than a divisive fight then he could have gotten the wall by focusing on the shining gates. If it wasn’t a “keep out” brand and if it was more of a Statue of Liberty brand then many more liberals would be supportive.

The Goal is a policy the protects and advances American interests.


If one side of the political divide is against that, then "Unity" would be a bad thing, as we have to compromise with people who want policies that are bad for America.

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

But one side is fundamentally opposed to border security. Unity and collaboration will not get US there, no matter what.


And telling the truth about someone, is not demonizing them.

Just because you say they are fundamentally opposed to border security doesn’t make that true. It actually goes against the facts. The easiest example would be to point to last years budget where Dems approved a $1.3 billion budget specifically for border security.

Correct, it is not my words that make it true. It is their actions.


Like their opposition to the Wall. Their support of Amnesty for the millions already here. The calls to abolish ICE the agency responsible for border security. Their fighting any attempts by border states to help secure the border. Thier calling ICE, fascists and/or racist, ect. Their open ended arguments against controlling immigration, that if taken seriously would apply to billions. The hate they show to their fellow Americans who dare want their interests put ahead of citizens of foreign nations, in the context of American government policy. The way that they support sanctuary cities that side with illegals vs their own federal government.


For starters, off the top of my head.

 

[Correll]

Sooooooo, the real reason why Trump NEEDS a wall to be built, is NOT because of a made-up "national crisis"........but simply, to keep his fat ass out of bankruptcies, shame and even possibly out of prison.

Trump needs a second term to allow the statute of limitations to expire on some of his alleged criminal activities; there is no crisis on the US southern border, but there is a serious crisis in the White House.

More reason we can’t accept the ....”sitting president can’t be prosecuted”

Don't worry about it. You can just as easily make up new shit if he is in office till 2024.

 

[nat4900]

Just because you say they are fundamentally opposed to border security doesn’t make that true. It actually goes against the facts. The easiest example would be to point to last years budget where Dems approved a $1.3 billion budget specifically for border security.

True.....but if Trump, Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity told this poster that he/she MUST believe that stupid assertion.....what is a cult member to do???

 

[Slade3200]

I agree about the campaign hyperbole and wish that wasn’t accepted. I’m curious. Do you consider Obama’s keep your plan keep your doctor line a lie or campaign hyperbole?

NOpe. Obama is not the notorious big mouth that Trump is. That claim on his seemed very serious, and was used to sell a very important policy.

Are you joking? You know what it sounds like you’re saying... it sounds like your saying that Obama was a serious politician whose campaign rhetoric should be taken seriously, so when he said keep your doctors and plans and that didn’t happen it is a LIE. Since Trump is a notorious big mouth who carelessly uses hyperbole then he doesn’t need to be held accountable for the things he promises.

Do you see the hypocrisy and how silly that sounds?

Trump's use of hyperbole, and the way it confuses some people but not others, was extensively discussed during the campaign.


YOu are acting like you have not considered this issue before.


That is not credible.

I consider hyperbole from the president of the United States to be the same thing as propaganda. That office and running for that office should hold higher standards. Obama should have been held accountable for the doctor plan promise and Trump should be held accountable for the Mexico will pay for it promise, amoungst the many other “hyperbolized” promises he made. You shouldn’t be making excuses and accepting that shit as par for the course. IMO

1. Hyperbole and propaganda are two distinct forms of communication. They can overlap, but pretending that they are the same, is, ironically, as dishonest as you are claiming that Trump is.

2. You believe that the Office of the President should be held to a "higher standard" that does not include regular use of hyperbole. That is a fine opinion. The nation as a whole, disagreed when they elected Trump. Your disagreement with US, does not change the fact that hyperbole is part of Trump's communication style.

3. I agree that Obama should have been held accountable for his lie on the doctor plan.

4. Trump, imo, should be held accountable he makes a strong, very strong, good faith effort to build a Wall, or a "wall" that is highly effective in vastly reducing the number of illegal border crossings.


5. Making Mexico pay, always struck me as far less of a serious commitment. I don't know how to explain to you how to distinguish between the two, but trust me on this. Though I would love it, if he did manage it.

First off, just because somebody is elected does not mean the majority of America accepts and supports everything that they do. There were two choices to choose from. Two horrible choices if you ask me.

Second, couldn’t I say the same thing about Obama that you are saying about Trump? He just wanted to fix our healthcare system so more people would be covered so he did everything he could to move the ball.... see, same argument

Lastly, please explain the difference between Trumps hyperbole and propaganda, cause I don’t see a difference.

 

[Slade3200]

If Trump was interested in unity rather than a divisive fight then he could have gotten the wall by focusing on the shining gates. If it wasn’t a “keep out” brand and if it was more of a Statue of Liberty brand then many more liberals would be supportive.

The Goal is a policy the protects and advances American interests.


If one side of the political divide is against that, then "Unity" would be a bad thing, as we have to compromise with people who want policies that are bad for America.

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

But one side is fundamentally opposed to border security. Unity and collaboration will not get US there, no matter what.


And telling the truth about someone, is not demonizing them.

Just because you say they are fundamentally opposed to border security doesn’t make that true. It actually goes against the facts. The easiest example would be to point to last years budget where Dems approved a $1.3 billion budget specifically for border security.

Correct, it is not my words that make it true. It is their actions.


Like their opposition to the Wall. Their support of Amnesty for the millions already here. The calls to abolish ICE the agency responsible for border security. Their fighting any attempts by border states to help secure the border. Thier calling ICE, fascists and/or racist, ect. Their open ended arguments against controlling immigration, that if taken seriously would apply to billions. The hate they show to their fellow Americans who dare want their interests put ahead of citizens of foreign nations, in the context of American government policy. The way that they support sanctuary cities that side with illegals vs their own federal government.


For starters, off the top of my head.

Those are partisan talking points and not laying out all the facts in an objective way. The fact that they allocated 1.3 billion dollars last year for border security kills your argument that they are fundamentally against border security. They may support different ways of getting the job done. They may not place the same urgency and importance on the same things as you. They may have a different overall message that they want to push “welcome” vs “keep out”. But your statement is just not accurate

 

[Aponi]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

 

[kyzr]

Its border not boarder in the title

 

[XponentialChaos]

What an insightful topic to start.

Thank you.

 

[Crepitus]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

Love how you say "facts are facts" and follow with "Drugs and illegals come across the border by the millions and by the ton" when the facts are the exact opposite of that.

 

[Aponi]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

Love how you say "facts are facts" and follow with "Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton" when the facts are the exact opposite of that.

 

[JBvM]

Its border not boarder in the title

Hey! I was a boarder, in a border town. So please, don't hate me

 

[The VOR]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

Love how you say "facts are facts" and follow with "Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton" when the facts are the exact opposite of that.

I think he may have meant, alternative facts are alternative facts.

 

[JBvM]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

Yes, walls work in other nations and at prisons when they are backed up with land mines and machine gun nests in order to kill people trying to cross or get around the wall.

Drugs come through legal entry points in trucks and cars .. and some comes in on boats

We NOTICE you dropped the talking point: Terrorists. Because we know that was even too much bullshit for Trump to keep up

.

Are you advocating murdering asylum seekers and immigrants?
.

.

 

[Aponi]

Really its not true.
There are betwwen 12 million and 20 million illegals in the nation .

And only a complete moron would claim drugs by the ton dont come across the boarder.

So either your lying or are a moron

 

[Thinker101]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

Yes, walls work in other nations and at prisons when they are backed up with land mines and machine gun nests in order to kill people trying to cross or get around the wall.

Drugs come through legal entry points in trucks and cars .. and some comes in on boats

We NOTICE you dropped the talking point: Terrorists. Because we know that was even too much bullshit for Trump to keep up

.

Are you advocating murdering asylum seekers and immigrants?
.

.

Prisons have land mines and machine gun nests? Dood, what prisons have you been staying in?

 

[JimH52]

Facts to trumpettes are Lies that trump tells. He tells them at supersonic speed!

 

[LilOlLady]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

A triple layer of fencing, more Border Patrol agents and bollard-style barriers along the border have reduced illegal crossings from Mexico into Yuma, Arizona, by nearly 90 percent.
Border fencing, more agents and prosecutions cause drop in Yuma, Arizona, border crossings

 

[Care4all]

Pretty simple in places you can basically walk across it.
Walls work in other nations and in prisons.

Drugs and illegals come across the boarder by the millions and by the ton.

A wall will affect this and slow down both.
Nothing wrong with slowing down the influx of either

There are 700 miles of walls and fences that were just finished on the Southern border, from the 2007 secure border act immigration bill...., put up in the exact places that Border Patrol felt they were needed, also the Secure Act more than doubled the size of border and immigration officers for border patrol and ICE, going to over a 40,000 person force vs the 20,000 combined force just 10 years earlier, they also added radio fences, lighting, motion detectors and drones, which border patrol wants more....

we have reduced illegal crossings from a high of 1,600,000 apprehensions a year down to about 300,000 a year, with these new walls and fences and added technology and added work force in the most strategic regions.

Some fence repairs and even some added fence in areas that border patrol still feels are needed based on their apprehension numbers should be built.... but there is still1000 miles of the border near no towns or roads, or 100 miles in to a dessert or with 10000 ft mountains where a wall is cost prohibitive, and or the number of people trying to cross in those remote areas are near nil... and it would be a waste of tax payer money to build a wall that costs $25 million dollars a single MILE of wall.

 

[Staidhup]

So it's now about semantics.....face it both parties supported the wall and national security in the past, now one party claims there isn't a crisis, no caravan, no one is violating immigration law, drugs are not be smuggled in dailey, illegal immigrants don't violate the law, all these people want is political asylum, everything is just peachy cream, no problem. So how is it all of a sudden there's nothing to worry about? Whose head is in the sand and when will politics be set aside and national security and enforcement of federal law be upheld?