Oil Transported Through Keystone Will Be Consumed in the US

[Ravi]

So if I were one of the property owners and objected and defended my property I would be a troublemaker? Doesn't that go against conservative ideals?

Not at all. A business has the right to make money at the expense of any Podunk citizen.

 

[Toro]

This makes no sense at all.

Why would we want oil we can't use over our own oil that is immediately usable?

Why would we want unusable oil when President Obama has issued more drilling permits than any other prez in the past?

The US is still a net importer of oil, and will be for some time. I believe Canada is now the largest importer to the US.

When people talk about "energy independence" in the US, they also include Canada in that.

 

[Toro]

I'll believe the vast amounts of reports saying the same thing President Obama is saying over the self-serving, lone comment from an oil corporation executive, thank you very much.

Would you believe Obama's own State Department?

Indeed, the State Department’s final environmental impact statement on the Keystone XL project specifically disputed claims that the oil “would pass through the United States and be loaded onto vessels for ultimate sale in markets such as Asia,” saying it was not economically justified. The State Department noted that the traditional sources of crude for the Gulf Coast, such as Mexico and Venezuela, are declining, and so refineries would have “significant incentive to obtain heavy crude from the oil sands.”

So then the question turns on what happens to that oil after it leaves the refinery. Oil is a global commodity, of course, and where it travels often depends on market conditions. In Obama’s telling, however, the refined Canadian oil goes “everywhere else” and “not to the United States.”

But that’s not right either, according to the State Department report. U.S. exports are not affected by various pipeline scenarios but instead by market conditions, such as “domestic demand versus domestic refining capacity, the cost of natural gas, and refining capacity abroad, including in foreign markets currently importing U.S. refined products such as Mexico, Brazil, Chile, and Europe,” the report said. The demand for exports, in other words, is completely unrelated to building the Keystone XL pipeline.

For the sake of argument, let’s look at the percentage of exports currently from the Gulf Coast area, using data for refining output and product exports from the Energy Information Administration. Depending on how you crunch the numbers, the percentage of exports for finished products ranges between 35 percent and 50 percent. The State Department pegged the rate of exports at just over 50 percent, noting that “this increased volume of refined products is being exported by refiners as they respond to lower domestic gasoline demand and continued higher demand and prices in overseas markets.”

In other words, at least half of the oil that is refined on the Gulf Coast stays in the United States.

Obama 8217 s claim that Keystone XL crude would go 8216 everywhere else 8217 but the United States - The Washington Post

The claim receives Three Pinocchios from WaPost!

 

[frigidweirdo]

• 1999 (June 10) An Olympic gasoline pipeline ruptured near Bellingham, Washington, resulting in 3 deaths, a fly fisherman and two 10-year-old boys. The cause was a series of errors and malfunctions in relief systems and process control computer systems in the Olympic Pipeline system, resulting in 277,000 gallons of gasoline spilled to Whatcom Creek. The fire burned for five days.[26][27]
• 2000 (20 August) A 30-inch El Paso Energy natural gas pipeline exploded, killing five adults and five children and leaving two other people in critical condition in southeast New Mexico. They were camping under a bridge which carried the pipeline across the Pecos River. The explosion occurred underground on the east side of the river 200 to 300 yards from the campers around 5:30 a.m.. The explosion left a crater 86 feet long, 46 feet wide and 20 feet deep. The fireball was visible 20 miles north in Carlsbad, N.M. The pipeline was installed in 1950.[28]
• 2004 (May 24) A pinhole-sized leak caused by wear unleashed thousands of gallons of gasoline that fueled the BP / Olympic pipeline fire and explosion near the Westfield Shoppingtown Southcenter in Renton, Washington. The blaze sent three firefighters to the hospital, and a mile-square area, which included a nearby fire station, was cordoned off. The leak occurred in a half-inch-wide tube of stainless steel that Olympic operators use to extract fuel samples from the system's 16-inch-wide main line. A metal electrical conduit had rubbed against the stainless steel sampling tube to open the pinhole leak.[29]
• 2010 (September 9) At 6:11 PM, a PG&E 30-inch natural gas line exploded in San Bruno, California, killing 8. Eyewitnesses reported the initial blast "had a wall of fire more than 1,000 feet high".[30]
• 2010 (July 25) Crude oil pipeline ruptures near Marshall, Michigan, spilling over 840,000 gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo River [31] [32]
• 2012 (12 December) a 20-inch transmission line owned by NiSource Inc., parent of Columbia Gas, exploded, leveling 4 houses, between Sissonville and Pocatalico in Kanawha County, West Virginia (WV). When it blew, nobody at pipeline operator, Columbia Gas Transmission knew it. An 800' section of I-77 was obliterated.[33][34] “The fire melted the interstate and it looked like lava, just boiling.” Later the West Virginia Public Service Commission released several pages of violations by Columbia Gas.[35] Forty families were "impacted" by the explosion.[36] The investigation cited "corrosion" as the cause of the blast. [37][38]
• 2013 (29 March) ExxonMobil pipeline carrying Canadian Wabasca heavy crude from the Athabasca oil sands ruptured in Mayflower, Arkansas, about 25 miles northwest of Little Rock. Approximately 12,000 barrels (1,900 m3) of oil mixed with water had been recovered by March 31. Twenty-two homes were evacuated.[1] The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classified the leak as a major spill. A reported 5,000−7,000 barrels of crude were released. [39]
• 2013 (20 August) Explosion of a natural gas pipeline near Kiowa southwest of Oklahoma City [40]
• 2013 (8 October) Explosion of a natural gas pipeline near Rosston, Oklahoma.[41]
• 2014 (Jan 25) A Trans Canada pipeline about 15 miles south of Winnipeg ruptured and exploded. The incident prompted the precautionary closure of two nearby pipelines. The pipelines supply the main source of natural gas to more than 100,000 Xcel Energy customers in eastern North Dakota, northwestern Minnesota and western Wisconsin.[42] The explosion happened near Otterburne, Manitoba, about 15 miles south of the provincial capital, Winnipeg. The area was evacuated as a precaution. No injuries were reported but the fire burned for more than 12 hours.[43]
• 2014 (Feb) In Knifely, Adair County, Kentucky, a Columbia Gulf gas pipeline exploded at 1 a.m. flattening homes, burning barns, and causing one casualty. The 30-inch natural gas pipeline was about 100 feet from Highway 76 and buried 30 feet underground. When it exploded, large rocks and sections of pipeline flew into the air, leaving a 60-foot crater. Columbia Gulf, part of NiSource’s Columbia Pipeline Group, owns and operates more than 15,700 miles of natural gas pipelines, one of the largest underground storage systems in North America. The pipeline that exploded was carrying natural gas from the Gulf of Mexico to New York.[44]
• 2014 (Feb 11) A Hiland gas pipeline exploded about six miles south of Tioga, North Dakota. Hiland was “blowing” hydrates, ice-like solids formed from a mixture of water and gas that can block pipeline flow, out of the pipeline.[45]
• 2014 (Mar 14) A Northern Natural Gas Company pipeline erupted near the intersection of county roads 20 and O, about six miles north of Fremont, Nebraska. A company spokesman said, "In the summer you can tell if you've got a gas leak by vegetation, sometimes it dies in the ground."[46]
• 2014 (May 26) A Viking gas pipeline explosion near Warren, Minnesota was "hell on earth," shaking the ground and shooting a fireball over 100 feet in the air. Roads within a two-mile radius were blocked off. Authorities suspected natural causes because there was still frost in the ground and the soil was wet.[47][48]

List of pipeline accidents - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Toro]

I talked to a good friend of mine who is high up at one of the big Calgary energy firms who have contracted on Keystone about this last week.

Keystone is the most economic means of transporting heavy crude to the Gulf Coast refineries. However, if Keystone gets shut down, the oil will still be transported to the Houston refineries for processing anyways. Canada is converting the TransCanada pipeline from Alberta to Quebec, and a new small pipeline will be built through New Brunswick. There, the crude will be placed on barges and sailed down the east coast and into the Gulf, where it will be unloaded in Texas and transported to the refineries from there.

It will cost more, but not a whole lot more.

So if the idea is to try to stop mining the Oil Sands to Save the Planet - which is ultimately the reason behind the opposition - stopping Keystone will fail.

 

[Toro]

In 2013 we exported more than we imported. This thread title is a lie.

Link?

The EIA says net imports are 4.8 million barrels a day.

Net Imports of Total Crude Oil and Products into the U.S. by Country

BTW, Canada accounts for more than half of that.

 

[Wildman]

This makes no sense at all.

Why would we want oil we can't use over our own oil that is immediately usable?

Why would we want unusable oil when President Obama has issued more drilling permits than any other prez in the past?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
THAT is pure , i noticed you put a ? in there so i presume you have questions about your own lie. right ??

why do you libercommies support that illegal alien mulatto muslime son-of-a-bitch (and she really was) PLEASE do not reply, it is just a rhetorical Q.,
i already know why.

 

[BlackSand]

I'll believe the vast amounts of reports saying the same thing President Obama is saying over the self-serving, lone comment from an oil corporation executive, thank you very much.

Oh crap ... Act like the President has never lied to us before regarding his agenda and associated legislation. President Obama and his buddies are the most self-serving bunch of liars around.

My goodness, some people will believe anything ... Gruber was right about Liberals.

.

 

[initforme]

"Not at all. A business has the right to make money at the expense of any Podunk citizen."

I guess you are right. And big business whines like little kids about regulations. Heck, they can do whatever they want. And people condone this because a profit is to be made.Can a property owner at least be on his own property watching and observing the workers or is that against the law too?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It won't be exported, according to the CEO of TransCanada Pipelines.

It certainly seems illogical that an oil pipeline should be elevated to the level of friction now represented by the Keystone XL project. But through one means or another, the project has become a source of real conflict. On Wednesday the CEO of TransCanada Corp. came pretty close to calling the President of the United States a liar. Russ Girling said that “the notion that this oil is going to get exported is pure fabrication by those that are opposed to our project.”

Later, he added: “It’s very highly unlikely that any of this crude leaves North America.”

The timing was important, because Mr. Obama made those very allegations just last week. The pipeline, he said was merely “providing the ability of Canada to pump their oil, send it through our land, down to the Gulf, where it will be sold everywhere else.” He was parroting the latest line in the war against Keystone mounted by U.S. environmentalists, which portrays Canada as a nefarious purveyor of dirty oil, with plans to send shipments across the pristine U.S. to ships in the Gulf, which will immediately transport it to China.

In reality, TransCanada doesn’t own the oil, it just ships it for the oil companies. It gets sent to a refining hub in Texas, which turns it into gasoline. The refiners say less than 10% of the gasoline they refine gets exported. If the refiners did decide, illogically, to export it all, they would have to ship in other oil from Venezuela or elsewhere to replace it, which makes no sense at all. The U.S. State Department, which has assessed Keystone to death, found that pipelines have no impact on U.S. exports, and that Alberta’s oil is likely to stay in the U.S.

The National Post

That's just the opinion of someone who has an interest in getting the pipeline built.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

This makes no sense at all.

Why would we want oil we can't use over our own oil that is immediately usable?

Why would we want unusable oil when President Obama has issued more drilling permits than any other prez in the past?

I will also refer you to the EIA website.
Dang you two are daft.

They're complete loonbats. They haven't a clue about crude, Nat gas, permitting, production.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Maybe some facts would help:

Keystone Left Behind as Canadian Oil Pours Into U.S.

"Delays of the Keystone XL pipeline are providing little obstacle to Western Canadian oil producers getting their crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast, with shipments set to more than double next year.
The volume of Canadian crude processed at Gulf Coast refineries could climb to more than 400,000 barrels a day in 2015 from 208,000 in August, according to Jackie Forrest, vice president of Calgary-based ARC Financial Corp. The increase comes as Enbridge Inc.’s Flanagan South and an expanded Seaway pipeline raise their capacity to ship oil by as much as 450,000 barrels a day. Canadian exports to the Gulf rose 83 percent in the past four years."

...“Keystone is kind of old news,” Sandy Fielden, director of energy analytics at Austin, Texas-based consulting company RBN Energy, said Nov. 12 in an e-mail. “Producers have moved on and are looking for new capacity from other pipelines....”

Keystone Left Behind as Canadian Oil Pours Into U.S. - Bloomberg

 

[Toro]

That's just the opinion of someone who has an interest in getting the pipeline built.

What about the opinion of Obama's State Department? They agree with the CEO.

Oil Transported Through Keystone Will Be Consumed in the US Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'll believe the vast amounts of reports saying the same thing President Obama is saying over the self-serving, lone comment from an oil corporation executive, thank you very much.

Would you believe Obama's own State Department?

Indeed, the State Department’s final environmental impact statement on the Keystone XL project specifically disputed claims that the oil “would pass through the United States and be loaded onto vessels for ultimate sale in markets such as Asia,” saying it was not economically justified. The State Department noted that the traditional sources of crude for the Gulf Coast, such as Mexico and Venezuela, are declining, and so refineries would have “significant incentive to obtain heavy crude from the oil sands.”

So then the question turns on what happens to that oil after it leaves the refinery. Oil is a global commodity, of course, and where it travels often depends on market conditions. In Obama’s telling, however, the refined Canadian oil goes “everywhere else” and “not to the United States.”

But that’s not right either, according to the State Department report. U.S. exports are not affected by various pipeline scenarios but instead by market conditions, such as “domestic demand versus domestic refining capacity, the cost of natural gas, and refining capacity abroad, including in foreign markets currently importing U.S. refined products such as Mexico, Brazil, Chile, and Europe,” the report said. The demand for exports, in other words, is completely unrelated to building the Keystone XL pipeline.

For the sake of argument, let’s look at the percentage of exports currently from the Gulf Coast area, using data for refining output and product exports from the Energy Information Administration. Depending on how you crunch the numbers, the percentage of exports for finished products ranges between 35 percent and 50 percent. The State Department pegged the rate of exports at just over 50 percent, noting that “this increased volume of refined products is being exported by refiners as they respond to lower domestic gasoline demand and continued higher demand and prices in overseas markets.”

In other words, at least half of the oil that is refined on the Gulf Coast stays in the United States.

Obama 8217 s claim that Keystone XL crude would go 8216 everywhere else 8217 but the United States - The Washington Post

The claim receives Three Pinocchios from WaPost!

Disputing the State Dept's claim, from your link:

Gulf Coast PADD 3 Exports of Crude Oil Thousand Barrels per Day

 

[Dot Com]

I'll believe the vast amounts of reports saying the same thing President Obama is saying over the self-serving, lone comment from an oil corporation executive, thank you very much.

^ that

What does Toro take us for?

Since you are of the Party of "education and science" why don't you grow the fuck up and educate yourself.

Do some reading, do some digging...

U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA

World Oil - Upstream News Technology Exploration Drilling Production Statistics Careers Events

Oil Gas Journal- Oil and Gas News Prices Oil Drilling Exploration and Production

Welcome to Exploration Production Exploration Production

Welcome to Midstream Business Midstream Business

You fuckers make me sick.

Those are almost all industry rag shills shit stain. You lose Mr. H.

 

[The Rabbi]

I read that ISIS is also exporting oil through various means, and suddenly oil prices in the US go down in the last few months. I hate to think the American consumer is helping Muslim terrorists that threaten freedom.

Um you understand that lower oil prices HURT people trying to sell it, like ISIS, right?

I might, but do they? Were are they getting all the funding ? I don't think they care about capitalism as long as they turn a profit. However fleeting that may be.

Do they understand that lower prices for their products means less money for them? Is that a serious question?

 

[The Rabbi]

None, not a drop of that oil should leave our shores. I don't care if another country offers a lot more oil for it. Handcuff the company in this instance. You want your pipeline fine, we get the oil..

Why do you hate capitalism?

 

[The Rabbi]

Because Obama thinks he is a supreme leader and what he says goes.

He won two national elections by large margins, the first by a landslide.

That's called a mandate.

And when the GOP wins that's not called a mandate.
I love leftist "logic"

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Because Obama thinks he is a supreme leader and what he says goes.

He won two national elections by large margins, the first by a landslide.

That's called a mandate.

Oh good! I'm glad you agree that the GOP Congress that's to be sworn in next year also has a mandate.

 

[Silhouette]

If the oil from this proposed pipeline that the Lakotas have vowed to stop is to be consumed in the US, then Canada can refine it on site and sell it to trucks at the border to bring to various storage facilities here on land. No need whatsoever to have it in Texas ports to be shipped anywhere else.

Problem solved.