OK, I'll admit it, our friends on the left are correct; there IS a catch to the Trump tax cuts

[OKTexas]

Depends what fair is. Care to define it?

Why you think it's fair that rich pay higher taxes than you do?

And yes, all the laws should effect everyone equally. If I get tax break, rich should get the tax break too.

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

Wait until the trucks drive themselves in about 5 years... Then you'll want training.

Yeah, get back to us when a truck can bind a load and check it periodically and re-tighten things as necessary. There's a lot more things to driving a truck than just pointing it down a highway.


.

 

[beagle9]

serious question:

how much more than 70% of all taxes paid by the top 10% of wealthiest Americans would be "fair"???

the problem with your take on this is that your solution stifles growth & creates more restrictive impediments on the middle class to actually make it into that elusive "wealthy class"

real wealth; like that of the Kennedy's & Soros' of the world, is untouched; but the EARNINGS of the little guy & the great unwashed middle class are assaulted

not to mention that people that make $100,000 are considered "rich"

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2015 Update - Tax Foundation

The problem here is this.

1) The rich get lots of incentives. Trump was paid nearly $1 billion by New York in his time to do business. Then when he earns money from this, you say he shouldn't be paying much money in taxes. You forget the percentage of what he earns and just look at the amount, which is ridiculous.

2) said incentives prevent other businesses from competing on a level playing field. Which means the rich get richer and richer and then you point out they pay lots in tax. Sure they do, but by paying LESS as a percentage the smaller businesses are paying MORE as a percentage to make up the shortfall, and therefore they're struggling even more to compete with these companies.

Do you think it's fair that the rich should pay less taxes so they can make more money so they can put smaller businesses out of business?

Depends what fair is. Care to define it?

Why you think it's fair that rich pay higher taxes than you do?

And yes, all the laws should effect everyone equally. If I get tax break, rich should get the tax break too.

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

 

[francoHFW]

Yep don't worry about facts and the GOP giving the store away to the rich while screwing everyone else, it's just that everyone decided to get lazy all of a sudden. Really silly stuff, dupe.

So all you got is more of your generalized poop, I've had rich folks give me a job, I've never had one steal form me. And no, everyone didn't get lazy, you commiecrats pushed regulations and noncompetitive taxes that forced our manufacturing base off shore, you own that.


.

No it's just normal that menial jobs are going where the pay is cheapest, and the GOP refuses to invest in training our people 4 between 3 and 6 million tech jobs that are going begging... Must save the rich from paying taxes.

Why should the wealthy pay for other adults education?

I know we've been through this over and over again, but you're as thick as they come for a leftist, so let me ask you this:

What is wrong with people paying for their own education to secure a trade? What's stopping them? And don't say money, because our government gives educational loans all the time.

In fall of 1980, I rented my first apartment. At the time, I was fascinated with birds, so I hung a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch.

Spring broke and summer not far behind, I finally met my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice thing, but you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding the birds is a good thing in winter because there is no food for them. But if you leave that feeder up year long, the birds will get so dependent on that thing they will forget how to obtain food for themselves. If you move or otherwise become disinterested in feeding them any longer, those birds will die of hunger."

I always remembered those wise words; not because of the birds, but later in life I realized that's what our government does to it's people.

So when you talk about how the GOP doesn't want to pay for adult education, I can hear that old man talking like he was sitting right next to me.

They used to pay for other people's education when America was great in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s... Funny how we're now a wreck of what we used to be and it's getting worse...

.

Ever heard of the GI Bill and cheap University State universities public colleges until Reagan started cutting that in California in the 60s and started all those protests... And it's just continued under Bush. How could you not know that? we are paying the highest percentage of interest on college loans etc etc t o o.

 

[francoHFW]

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

Wait until the trucks drive themselves in about 5 years... Then you'll want training.

Yeah, get back to us when a truck can bind a load and check it periodically and re-tighten things as necessary. There's a lot more things to driving a truck than just pointing it down a highway.


.

They can computerize all that too... I guess That's what they are saying. Read about.

 

[francoHFW]

The problem here is this.

1) The rich get lots of incentives. Trump was paid nearly $1 billion by New York in his time to do business. Then when he earns money from this, you say he shouldn't be paying much money in taxes. You forget the percentage of what he earns and just look at the amount, which is ridiculous.

2) said incentives prevent other businesses from competing on a level playing field. Which means the rich get richer and richer and then you point out they pay lots in tax. Sure they do, but by paying LESS as a percentage the smaller businesses are paying MORE as a percentage to make up the shortfall, and therefore they're struggling even more to compete with these companies.

Do you think it's fair that the rich should pay less taxes so they can make more money so they can put smaller businesses out of business?

Depends what fair is. Care to define it?

Why you think it's fair that rich pay higher taxes than you do?

And yes, all the laws should effect everyone equally. If I get tax break, rich should get the tax break too.

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

What the country needs now after 35 years of GOP give away to the rich, is help for the middle class and the working class all of which takes Investments and money. The rich are bloated and rat running a scam on you the greedy idiot GOP ones. Start with training and cheap college loans and infrastructure jobs and a living wage and some tax cuts for them and will have the consumer demand that is missing and will cut back on people on assistance.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem here is this.

1) The rich get lots of incentives. Trump was paid nearly $1 billion by New York in his time to do business. Then when he earns money from this, you say he shouldn't be paying much money in taxes. You forget the percentage of what he earns and just look at the amount, which is ridiculous.

2) said incentives prevent other businesses from competing on a level playing field. Which means the rich get richer and richer and then you point out they pay lots in tax. Sure they do, but by paying LESS as a percentage the smaller businesses are paying MORE as a percentage to make up the shortfall, and therefore they're struggling even more to compete with these companies.

Do you think it's fair that the rich should pay less taxes so they can make more money so they can put smaller businesses out of business?

Depends what fair is. Care to define it?

Why you think it's fair that rich pay higher taxes than you do?

And yes, all the laws should effect everyone equally. If I get tax break, rich should get the tax break too.

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

The biggest way big business wins is each different part of the US competing against every other part. The EU has basically banned this. It's said you can choose a tax rate system and you have to stick to it, otherwise big business will simply play divide and conquer.

Companies like Amazon will literally go around the country and say "who's willing to give us money for setting up shop here?" and they do. The jobs would stay in the US no matter what, however the money goes to Amazon when it shouldn't.

Imagine this.

You run a small business with a profit of $100,000 a year.

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

So your $100,000 drops because you have to drop prices down to the lowest level you can realistically afford to stay in business. This still isn't enough. Half your customers go shop at the large company. This means you're making no profit at all. The city is making less in taxers because you're paying half taxes you were paying before or less, and the other company isn't paying taxes at all.

Along the way other companies fail and yours will too. Meaning the larger company has taken all the customers by the end of the five year period, then renegotiates a nice sweet deal because they can't afford to see this company leave any more because it provides too many jobs.

How does this benefit anyone other than the rich?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

Wait until the trucks drive themselves in about 5 years... Then you'll want training.

Yeah, get back to us when a truck can bind a load and check it periodically and re-tighten things as necessary. There's a lot more things to driving a truck than just pointing it down a highway.


.

They can computerize all that too... I guess That's what they are saying. Read about.

I did read about it. The current model they wrote about costs 4 million dollars. It can't get to the highway by itself, it can't drop it's trailer, it can only go as far as a parking lot off the highway for a human driver to take over. Not worth the 4 million dollar investment.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

You don't worry, what about the millions who lost their jobs the last time around?

Big business buys government, and uses it to kill smaller businesses, we've been over this a hundred times and a hundred times you've pretended you didn't know what I was talking about.

It has nothing to do with government.

Larger businesses can out price smaller businesses because they buy products in larger quantities. The more you buy, the cheaper you can get it.

Jim at Jim's hardware store sells about 30 screwdrivers a week. Home Depot sells 30,000 screwdrivers a week because they buy in quantity, ship those screwdrivers to their warehouses, and then distributes them to all their outlets. Therefore you can buy your screwdriver at Jim's for $8.50, or get the same tool at Home Depot for $6.50.

Yes, they can do that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

For fuck's sake Ray, your ability to ignore the blatantly obvious is excruciating.

If a large company gets massive tax breaks and the smaller companies don't, which is EXACTLY what is happening in the US, then their ability to lower prices and be more competitive is there.

Don't you agree? Or is your partisan nonsense going to blur your vision again?

Look....... I work for a small company of less than a dozen employees including myself. I talk with my employer all the time about business. He told me he had all kinds of tax breaks for the first seven years he had his business. There is no giving tax breaks to larger businesses than smaller businesses. If anything, just the opposite. Our company competes with the big boys every single day, and we are doing just fine.

Since I work with industry every single day, I'm quite aware of the advantages larger businesses have over smaller ones. It has nothing to do with government.

As a musician, I remember the days of big music stores. They were locally owned and built up to their size. But along came places like Guitar Centers and put them out of business. Why? Because Guitar Centers open up their outlets with over a million dollars in inventory. No local dealer could compete with them. Think of that. Over a million dollars of musical instruments under one roof! Because of their ability to purchase high quality instruments in quantity, they were able to out price every single local store in the Cleveland area and I'm sure across most of the country.

 

[OKTexas]

So all you got is more of your generalized poop, I've had rich folks give me a job, I've never had one steal form me. And no, everyone didn't get lazy, you commiecrats pushed regulations and noncompetitive taxes that forced our manufacturing base off shore, you own that.


.

No it's just normal that menial jobs are going where the pay is cheapest, and the GOP refuses to invest in training our people 4 between 3 and 6 million tech jobs that are going begging... Must save the rich from paying taxes.

Why should the wealthy pay for other adults education?

I know we've been through this over and over again, but you're as thick as they come for a leftist, so let me ask you this:

What is wrong with people paying for their own education to secure a trade? What's stopping them? And don't say money, because our government gives educational loans all the time.

In fall of 1980, I rented my first apartment. At the time, I was fascinated with birds, so I hung a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch.

Spring broke and summer not far behind, I finally met my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice thing, but you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding the birds is a good thing in winter because there is no food for them. But if you leave that feeder up year long, the birds will get so dependent on that thing they will forget how to obtain food for themselves. If you move or otherwise become disinterested in feeding them any longer, those birds will die of hunger."

I always remembered those wise words; not because of the birds, but later in life I realized that's what our government does to it's people.

So when you talk about how the GOP doesn't want to pay for adult education, I can hear that old man talking like he was sitting right next to me.

They used to pay for other people's education when America was great in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s... Funny how we're now a wreck of what we used to be and it's getting worse...

.

Ever heard of the GI Bill and cheap University State universities public colleges until Reagan started cutting that in California in the 60s and started all those protests... And it's just continued under Bush. How could you not know that? we are paying the highest percentage of interest on college loans etc etc t o o.

Yeah, I heard of them, the GI bill is earned and you can still go to State colleges much cheaper than large universities. Get the feds out of the education business and price will go down. Colleges and universities have no incentive to control prices when uncle sugar will loan money to any dirtbag to pay their price. During the times you've mentioned, most people worked their way thorough school and never took out a loan.


.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

You don't worry, what about the millions who lost their jobs the last time around?

Big business buys government, and uses it to kill smaller businesses, we've been over this a hundred times and a hundred times you've pretended you didn't know what I was talking about.

It has nothing to do with government.

Larger businesses can out price smaller businesses because they buy products in larger quantities. The more you buy, the cheaper you can get it.

Jim at Jim's hardware store sells about 30 screwdrivers a week. Home Depot sells 30,000 screwdrivers a week because they buy in quantity, ship those screwdrivers to their warehouses, and then distributes them to all their outlets. Therefore you can buy your screwdriver at Jim's for $8.50, or get the same tool at Home Depot for $6.50.

Yes, they can do that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

For fuck's sake Ray, your ability to ignore the blatantly obvious is excruciating.

If a large company gets massive tax breaks and the smaller companies don't, which is EXACTLY what is happening in the US, then their ability to lower prices and be more competitive is there.

Don't you agree? Or is your partisan nonsense going to blur your vision again?

Look....... I work for a small company of less than a dozen employees including myself. I talk with my employer all the time about business. He told me he had all kinds of tax breaks for the first seven years he had his business. There is no giving tax breaks to larger businesses than smaller businesses. If anything, just the opposite. Our company competes with the big boys every single day, and we are doing just fine.

Since I work with industry every single day, I'm quite aware of the advantages larger businesses have over smaller ones. It has nothing to do with government.

As a musician, I remember the days of big music stores. They were locally owned and built up to their size. But along came places like Guitar Centers and put them out of business. Why? Because Guitar Centers open up their outlets with over a million dollars in musical instruments. No local dealer could compete with them. Think of that. Over a million dollars of musical instruments under one roof! Because of their ability to purchase high quality instruments in quantity, they were able to out price every single local store in the Cleveland area and I'm sure across most of the country.

No giving tax breaks to larger businesses? Where the hell have you been for the last, I don't know, 30 years?

Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters

"
Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters"

Didn't happen huh? Your boss didn't tell you about it, so you don't know about it, so it simply didn't happen.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

You don't worry, what about the millions who lost their jobs the last time around?

Big business buys government, and uses it to kill smaller businesses, we've been over this a hundred times and a hundred times you've pretended you didn't know what I was talking about.

It has nothing to do with government.

Larger businesses can out price smaller businesses because they buy products in larger quantities. The more you buy, the cheaper you can get it.

Jim at Jim's hardware store sells about 30 screwdrivers a week. Home Depot sells 30,000 screwdrivers a week because they buy in quantity, ship those screwdrivers to their warehouses, and then distributes them to all their outlets. Therefore you can buy your screwdriver at Jim's for $8.50, or get the same tool at Home Depot for $6.50.

Yes, they can do that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

For fuck's sake Ray, your ability to ignore the blatantly obvious is excruciating.

If a large company gets massive tax breaks and the smaller companies don't, which is EXACTLY what is happening in the US, then their ability to lower prices and be more competitive is there.

Don't you agree? Or is your partisan nonsense going to blur your vision again?

Look....... I work for a small company of less than a dozen employees including myself. I talk with my employer all the time about business. He told me he had all kinds of tax breaks for the first seven years he had his business. There is no giving tax breaks to larger businesses than smaller businesses. If anything, just the opposite. Our company competes with the big boys every single day, and we are doing just fine.

Since I work with industry every single day, I'm quite aware of the advantages larger businesses have over smaller ones. It has nothing to do with government.

As a musician, I remember the days of big music stores. They were locally owned and built up to their size. But along came places like Guitar Centers and put them out of business. Why? Because Guitar Centers open up their outlets with over a million dollars in musical instruments. No local dealer could compete with them. Think of that. Over a million dollars of musical instruments under one roof! Because of their ability to purchase high quality instruments in quantity, they were able to out price every single local store in the Cleveland area and I'm sure across most of the country.

No giving tax breaks to larger businesses? Where the hell have you been for the last, I don't know, 30 years?

Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters

"
Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters"

Didn't happen huh? Your boss didn't tell you about it, so you don't know about it, so it simply didn't happen.

Are you talking about local tax breaks or federal? I was talking about federal. There are no controls over what a state or city offers in tax breaks. It's all fair game and fair competition. In fact, our neighboring suburb just got an Amazon contract. There is another one about 20 miles from here as well.

Tax abatements are used to attract businesses. And who is competing with Amazon anyway? It doesn't matter if there is an Amazon next door to you or 500 miles away. Any internet business is killing small and large brick and mortar stores alike.

 

[bgrouse]

I never said they were all deadbeats, so there's nothing to change. "All" was the delusion of some dumbass on this forum. Ask him to prove it.

Sorry, but when you say "people who inherited money are deadbeats" that does mean all.

"All" means "All." "All" is not in that sentence, but it was in a different sentence posted by another illiterate retard like you.

No. If you don't quantify it, then it means all. You didn't say half, or most, or some, you said people who inherit money.

If it's not quantified, then it's not quantified. You're seeing something that isn't there. You should have that looked at. I can't help you with that since I'm not in the field of psychiatric medicine.

So if I say Democrats are Communists, you might not take offense to that?

Of course not.

So you tell me, how many Democrats am I talking about in that statement?

I'd ask you since you didn't quantify it. At least one or two I suppose.

 

[OKTexas]

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

I don't worry about being unemployed because I chose a career where I'm always in demand no matter what the economy.

Can you explain the dynamics of how taking more money from people will make it better for others? Because big business is not the small business killer--government is.

Wait until the trucks drive themselves in about 5 years... Then you'll want training.

Yeah, get back to us when a truck can bind a load and check it periodically and re-tighten things as necessary. There's a lot more things to driving a truck than just pointing it down a highway.


.

They can computerize all that too... I guess That's what they are saying. Read about.

How do you think they'll do on an uncharted oil lease road in W. Texas?


.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You don't worry, what about the millions who lost their jobs the last time around?

Big business buys government, and uses it to kill smaller businesses, we've been over this a hundred times and a hundred times you've pretended you didn't know what I was talking about.

It has nothing to do with government.

Larger businesses can out price smaller businesses because they buy products in larger quantities. The more you buy, the cheaper you can get it.

Jim at Jim's hardware store sells about 30 screwdrivers a week. Home Depot sells 30,000 screwdrivers a week because they buy in quantity, ship those screwdrivers to their warehouses, and then distributes them to all their outlets. Therefore you can buy your screwdriver at Jim's for $8.50, or get the same tool at Home Depot for $6.50.

Yes, they can do that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

For fuck's sake Ray, your ability to ignore the blatantly obvious is excruciating.

If a large company gets massive tax breaks and the smaller companies don't, which is EXACTLY what is happening in the US, then their ability to lower prices and be more competitive is there.

Don't you agree? Or is your partisan nonsense going to blur your vision again?

Look....... I work for a small company of less than a dozen employees including myself. I talk with my employer all the time about business. He told me he had all kinds of tax breaks for the first seven years he had his business. There is no giving tax breaks to larger businesses than smaller businesses. If anything, just the opposite. Our company competes with the big boys every single day, and we are doing just fine.

Since I work with industry every single day, I'm quite aware of the advantages larger businesses have over smaller ones. It has nothing to do with government.

As a musician, I remember the days of big music stores. They were locally owned and built up to their size. But along came places like Guitar Centers and put them out of business. Why? Because Guitar Centers open up their outlets with over a million dollars in musical instruments. No local dealer could compete with them. Think of that. Over a million dollars of musical instruments under one roof! Because of their ability to purchase high quality instruments in quantity, they were able to out price every single local store in the Cleveland area and I'm sure across most of the country.

No giving tax breaks to larger businesses? Where the hell have you been for the last, I don't know, 30 years?

Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters

"
Billions in tax breaks offered to Amazon for second headquarters"

Didn't happen huh? Your boss didn't tell you about it, so you don't know about it, so it simply didn't happen.

Are you talking about local tax breaks or federal? I was talking about federal. There are no controls over what a state or city offers in tax breaks. It's all fair game and fair competition. In fact, our neighboring suburb just got an Amazon contract. There is another one about 20 miles from here as well.

Tax abatements are used to attract businesses. And who is competing with Amazon anyway? It doesn't matter if there is an Amazon next door to you or 500 miles away. Any internet business is killing small and large brick and mortar stores alike.

Oh, oh, oh, right, I forgot you were talking only about federal because.... well because you didn't fucking mention that. How silly of me to forget.

I'm talking about TAXES here Ray. I know you did it last time with the whole "rich people pay loads of INCOME TAX (and let's ignore all the other taxes)."

We're talking about ALL TAXES that a company has to pay. Why? Because that's the ONLY THING that makes sense when discussing how businesses are doing.

 

[bgrouse]

Sorry, daddy didn't give me millions to invest.

My dad gave me nothing however I have built and sold three business

I didn't say anything about "millions." That's your statement, dumbass. I don't have to prove what you said.

Dumb ass prove to me that rich people who inherit money from their parents are deadbeats and lazy. Thank you.

I already proved my claim to you with Trump. If you want me to prove something you or some other asshole said, contact said asshole, idiot.

You proved one person out of a million is what you claim. You are a dishonest, I know two people that inherited their money and are great people, so now you got nothing but your ignorance and bigotry.

I proved what I said. I don't have to prove what you said.

Here's a tissue. I expect you will shed many a tear whining about how I'm dishonest because I don't want to prove your statements or those of other idiots.

You didn't prove your statement which is, “That's how it works, except in the case of spoiled rich deadbeat kids getting a big fat inheritance. They are excused."

No you going to back up what you said or are you the dishonest coward we all see on this board?

You want proof that "spoiled rich deadbeat kids getting a big fat inheritance are excused?" OK:

https://taxmap.irs.gov/taxmap/pubs/p559-002.htm#en_us_publink100099626

Property received as a gift, bequest, or inheritance is not included in your income.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Depends what fair is. Care to define it?

Why you think it's fair that rich pay higher taxes than you do?

And yes, all the laws should effect everyone equally. If I get tax break, rich should get the tax break too.

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

The biggest way big business wins is each different part of the US competing against every other part. The EU has basically banned this. It's said you can choose a tax rate system and you have to stick to it, otherwise big business will simply play divide and conquer.

Companies like Amazon will literally go around the country and say "who's willing to give us money for setting up shop here?" and they do. The jobs would stay in the US no matter what, however the money goes to Amazon when it shouldn't.

Imagine this.

You run a small business with a profit of $100,000 a year.

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

So your $100,000 drops because you have to drop prices down to the lowest level you can realistically afford to stay in business. This still isn't enough. Half your customers go shop at the large company. This means you're making no profit at all. The city is making less in taxers because you're paying half taxes you were paying before or less, and the other company isn't paying taxes at all.

Along the way other companies fail and yours will too. Meaning the larger company has taken all the customers by the end of the five year period, then renegotiates a nice sweet deal because they can't afford to see this company leave any more because it provides too many jobs.

How does this benefit anyone other than the rich?

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

Wait one minute.....are you saying lower taxes allow businesses to lower their prices?

Don't tell the liberals....

 

[francoHFW]

No it's just normal that menial jobs are going where the pay is cheapest, and the GOP refuses to invest in training our people 4 between 3 and 6 million tech jobs that are going begging... Must save the rich from paying taxes.

Why should the wealthy pay for other adults education?

I know we've been through this over and over again, but you're as thick as they come for a leftist, so let me ask you this:

What is wrong with people paying for their own education to secure a trade? What's stopping them? And don't say money, because our government gives educational loans all the time.

In fall of 1980, I rented my first apartment. At the time, I was fascinated with birds, so I hung a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch.

Spring broke and summer not far behind, I finally met my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice thing, but you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding the birds is a good thing in winter because there is no food for them. But if you leave that feeder up year long, the birds will get so dependent on that thing they will forget how to obtain food for themselves. If you move or otherwise become disinterested in feeding them any longer, those birds will die of hunger."

I always remembered those wise words; not because of the birds, but later in life I realized that's what our government does to it's people.

So when you talk about how the GOP doesn't want to pay for adult education, I can hear that old man talking like he was sitting right next to me.

They used to pay for other people's education when America was great in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s... Funny how we're now a wreck of what we used to be and it's getting worse...

.

Ever heard of the GI Bill and cheap University State universities public colleges until Reagan started cutting that in California in the 60s and started all those protests... And it's just continued under Bush. How could you not know that? we are paying the highest percentage of interest on college loans etc etc t o o.

Yeah, I heard of them, the GI bill is earned and you can still go to State colleges much cheaper than large universities. Get the feds out of the education business and price will go down. Colleges and universities have no incentive to control prices when uncle sugar will loan money to any dirtbag to pay their price. During the times you've mentioned, most people worked their way thorough school and never took out a loan.


.

Nah... Colleges were much cheaper especially the public schools were almost free . now they're getting up there that is not much competition to keep prices down. And that all started with Reagan and California.

 

[francoHFW]

Why should the wealthy pay for other adults education?

I know we've been through this over and over again, but you're as thick as they come for a leftist, so let me ask you this:

What is wrong with people paying for their own education to secure a trade? What's stopping them? And don't say money, because our government gives educational loans all the time.

In fall of 1980, I rented my first apartment. At the time, I was fascinated with birds, so I hung a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch.

Spring broke and summer not far behind, I finally met my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice thing, but you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding the birds is a good thing in winter because there is no food for them. But if you leave that feeder up year long, the birds will get so dependent on that thing they will forget how to obtain food for themselves. If you move or otherwise become disinterested in feeding them any longer, those birds will die of hunger."

I always remembered those wise words; not because of the birds, but later in life I realized that's what our government does to it's people.

So when you talk about how the GOP doesn't want to pay for adult education, I can hear that old man talking like he was sitting right next to me.

They used to pay for other people's education when America was great in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s... Funny how we're now a wreck of what we used to be and it's getting worse...

.

Ever heard of the GI Bill and cheap University State universities public colleges until Reagan started cutting that in California in the 60s and started all those protests... And it's just continued under Bush. How could you not know that? we are paying the highest percentage of interest on college loans etc etc t o o.

Yeah, I heard of them, the GI bill is earned and you can still go to State colleges much cheaper than large universities. Get the feds out of the education business and price will go down. Colleges and universities have no incentive to control prices when uncle sugar will loan money to any dirtbag to pay their price. During the times you've mentioned, most people worked their way thorough school and never took out a loan.


.

Nah... Colleges were much cheaper especially the public schools were almost free . now they're getting up there that is not much competition to keep prices down. And that all started with Reagan and California.

it's training that these people need for the technical manual jobs that have all been going to Germany and Scandinavia... Because so many of our rich people are greedy idiots... They are called Republicans

 

[francoHFW]

Oh ? The disparity between rich and middle class isn't enough for you now?? Growing larger the past 30 or so years and STILL you're not satisfied?? Trump Corker etc etc etc laughing all the way to the bank and the middle gets crumbs ? And we should bow down and kiss trumps ring?

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

The biggest way big business wins is each different part of the US competing against every other part. The EU has basically banned this. It's said you can choose a tax rate system and you have to stick to it, otherwise big business will simply play divide and conquer.

Companies like Amazon will literally go around the country and say "who's willing to give us money for setting up shop here?" and they do. The jobs would stay in the US no matter what, however the money goes to Amazon when it shouldn't.

Imagine this.

You run a small business with a profit of $100,000 a year.

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

So your $100,000 drops because you have to drop prices down to the lowest level you can realistically afford to stay in business. This still isn't enough. Half your customers go shop at the large company. This means you're making no profit at all. The city is making less in taxers because you're paying half taxes you were paying before or less, and the other company isn't paying taxes at all.

Along the way other companies fail and yours will too. Meaning the larger company has taken all the customers by the end of the five year period, then renegotiates a nice sweet deal because they can't afford to see this company leave any more because it provides too many jobs.

How does this benefit anyone other than the rich?

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

Wait one minute.....are you saying lower taxes allow businesses to lower their prices?

Don't tell the liberals....

Liberals are highly in favor of helping the middle class and small business but don't see why the big tax cuts go to the rich and giant corporations that are bloated beyond all recognition by lack of taxes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So if the government takes more from the rich, how does that help me or any other blue collar worker?

Well, if the govt takes more from the rich, it means smaller businesses will be more competitive, which means some blue collar workers might get the chance to successfully start their own business. It'll also mean that recessions won't be as strong which means there's more of a chance you'll not end up unemployed for years at a time.

. How does the government taking more from the rich help small businesses start up or survive today ?? Are we using government to pick winners and losers when it decides to shift wealth over to whatever or over to small businesses, and as soon as it does so, and in so many cases these day's, don't such businesses end up failing within 3 years tops ? Then what ?? Oh I know, and then it (the government) decides to fund and promote every kind of other bullcrap known to modern man, but these things end up being huge failures just as well.

Just like the states where state government can come up with multiple schemes or ideas to raise revenue for roads, bridges and there repairs for example, but just check back with those states years later, and the roads and bridges are still failing, and there is never enough money to do the jobs....... So the bullcrap tax schemes continue without any fiscal responsibility to be found anywhere in sight.

I have seen budgets added to or funded for road jobs, but the road crews are then directed to paving back roads way out in the rural & way out of sight, while in the meantime the main roads, and the heavily traveled roads are left in disrepair in order to make claims on and on that more money is needed, and more money is needed.

It never ends, and important progress is minimal at best. Pathetic !!

The biggest way big business wins is each different part of the US competing against every other part. The EU has basically banned this. It's said you can choose a tax rate system and you have to stick to it, otherwise big business will simply play divide and conquer.

Companies like Amazon will literally go around the country and say "who's willing to give us money for setting up shop here?" and they do. The jobs would stay in the US no matter what, however the money goes to Amazon when it shouldn't.

Imagine this.

You run a small business with a profit of $100,000 a year.

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

So your $100,000 drops because you have to drop prices down to the lowest level you can realistically afford to stay in business. This still isn't enough. Half your customers go shop at the large company. This means you're making no profit at all. The city is making less in taxers because you're paying half taxes you were paying before or less, and the other company isn't paying taxes at all.

Along the way other companies fail and yours will too. Meaning the larger company has taken all the customers by the end of the five year period, then renegotiates a nice sweet deal because they can't afford to see this company leave any more because it provides too many jobs.

How does this benefit anyone other than the rich?

Then big business arrives in town, and you have competition. But the big business arrives without having to pay tax for five years. Their prices are lower than yours because they're not paying tax.

Wait one minute.....are you saying lower taxes allow businesses to lower their prices?

Don't tell the liberals....

Liberals are highly in favor of helping the middle class and small business but don't see why the big tax cuts go to the rich and giant corporations that are bloated beyond all recognition by lack of taxes.

Liberals are highly in favor of helping the middle class and small business

That's so good to hear.
When was the last time Dems gave the middle class and small business a tax cut?