Onward marches the Great Pause Global temperature update

[Crick]

The US oil industry receives 10-52 billion dollars in subsidies every year.

 

[bripat9643]

The US oil industry receives 10-52 billion dollars in subsidies every year.

Horseshit.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I thought you were a retired cop.

How much electricity does an American home use? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
How much electricity does an American home use?
In 2015, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,812 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 901 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 15,435 kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,166 kWh per residential customer.

10,812 kWh/(365*24) = 1.25 kW for the average. Or for Louisiana, it would be
15,435/(365*24) = 1.76 kW
50 kAh would supply a Louisiana home for over 28 hours. Supplying such a home for 14 hours would take half that.

A 14 kWh Tesla Powerwall costs $5,500 and another $1,500 for installation costs. They claim it will power a 2 BR home for 24 hours. The average American home is now almost 2,600 sq feet and over 3 BR, so that might not be saying much. And, you've seen the pictures. The basic Powerwall is roughly 2' x 4' x 6". 4 cubic feet. Not a 2 car garage.

So, you were wrong on every number.

So 15% of people use less than 901kwh and a majority of people use 3.5-15kwh. Your own damn link calls you out as uniformed..

Gawd you are so gullible...

 

[Billy_Bob]

The US oil industry receives 10-52 billion dollars in subsidies every year.

Depreciation on equipment is not a subsidy... Deceptive moron...

 

[Crick]

Fossil Fuel Subsidies & Finance - Oil Change International
Report Shows The Oil Industry Benefits From $5.3 Trillion in Subsidies Annually
Is The Oil Industry Really Subsidized? | OilPrice.com
Energy subsidies - Wikipedia
US Fossil Fuel Subsidies Increase 'Dramatically' Despite Climate Change Pledge
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/u...billion-per-year-of-taxpayers-money.html?_r=0
US taxpayers subsidising world's biggest fossil fuel companies

 

[Billy_Bob]

Fossil Fuel Subsidies & Finance - Oil Change International
Report Shows The Oil Industry Benefits From $5.3 Trillion in Subsidies Annually
Is The Oil Industry Really Subsidized? | OilPrice.com
Energy subsidies - Wikipedia
US Fossil Fuel Subsidies Increase 'Dramatically' Despite Climate Change Pledge
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/u...billion-per-year-of-taxpayers-money.html?_r=0
US taxpayers subsidising world's biggest fossil fuel companies

LOL..

You cant even read your own links.. They all conflate equipment depreciation as being a subsidy.. Funny how that talking point is all across the spectrum of left wing hack sites... Its like they all got the same talking points from their masters..

 

[Crick]

I got those points from Google.

Equipment depreciation is certainly not the only benefit the oil industry receives from our well-lubricate legislators. It just seems to be the only one you want to talk about.

 

[sakinago]

I got those points from Google.

Equipment depreciation is certainly not the only benefit the oil industry receives from our well-lubricate legislators. It just seems to be the only one you want to talk about.

You realize equipment depreciation is a tax write off, not limited to energy companies?

 

[Crick]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

The Federal government receives more than that from the oil companies in taxes

 

[sakinago]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

It's not a subsidization if everyone can write it off on tax forms...you either don't know what a subsidy is, or don't know what a write off is. Let me explain it better to you. So let's say I have a landscaping company, the equipment I own for that company is a truck, lawnmower, trailer, and a weed whacker. All of that equipment depreciates in value over time. That depreciation of value of that equipment then becomes a tax write off. So...I don't have to be an energy company to write off depreciation.

 

[bripat9643]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

All corporations are allowed to depreciate the equipment they buy. That's not a subsidy. It's a cost of doing business.

 

[Crick]

I thought you were a retired cop.

How much electricity does an American home use? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
How much electricity does an American home use?
In 2015, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,812 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 901 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 15,435 kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,166 kWh per residential customer.

10,812 kWh/(365*24) = 1.25 kW for the average. Or for Louisiana, it would be
15,435/(365*24) = 1.76 kW
50 kAh would supply a Louisiana home for over 28 hours. Supplying such a home for 14 hours would take half that.

A 14 kWh Tesla Powerwall costs $5,500 and another $1,500 for installation costs. They claim it will power a 2 BR home for 24 hours. The average American home is now almost 2,600 sq feet and over 3 BR, so that might not be saying much. And, you've seen the pictures. The basic Powerwall is roughly 2' x 4' x 6". 4 cubic feet. Not a 2 car garage.

So, you were wrong on every number.

So 15% of people use less than 901kwh and a majority of people use 3.5-15kwh. Your own damn link calls you out as uniformed..

Gawd you are so gullible...

The link states that the US average is 1.25 kWh/day and that it ranges as high as 1.76. It does NOT say anyone in the US averages 3.5-15 kWh per day. Gawd, you are so stupid.

 

[Crick]

From Wikipiedia's article on energy subsidies

Energy subsidies are measures that keep prices for consumers below market levels or for producers above market levels, or reduce costs for consumers and producers.[1] Energy subsidies may be direct cash transfers to producers, consumers, or related bodies, as well as indirect support mechanisms, such as tax exemptions and rebates, price controls, trade restrictions, and limits on market access. They may also include energy conservation subsidies.[2] The development of today's major modern energy industries have all relied on substantial subsidy support.

Global fossil fuel subsidies represented 6.5% of global GDP in 2015.[3] The elimination of these subsidies is widely seen as one of the most effective ways of reducing global carbon emissions.[3][4]
...
Types of energy subsidies are:

• Direct financial transfers – grants to producers; grants to consumers; low-interest or preferential loans to producers.
• Preferential tax treatments – rebates or exemption on royalties, duties, producer levies and tariffs; tax credit; accelerated depreciation allowances on energy supply equipment.
• Trade restrictions – quota, technical restrictions and trade embargoes.
• Energy-related services provided by government at less than full cost – direct investment in energy infrastructure; public research and development.
• Regulation of the energy sector – demand guarantees and mandated deployment rates; price controls; market-access restrictions; preferential planning consent and controls over access to resources.
• Failure to impose external costs – environmental externality costs; energy security risks and price volatility costs.[6]
• Depletion Allowance – allows a deduction from gross income of up to ~27% for the depletion of exhaustible resources (oil, gas, minerals).

**************************************************************************************************
See any mention of equipment depreciation there? No?

From the same article

The three largest fossil fuel subsidies were:

1. Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion)
2. Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion)
3. Oil and Gas exploration and development expensing ($7.1 billion)

***************************************************************************************************
That's $36.5 billion for an incomplete list

All your talk of equipment depreciation is a fucking red herring.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

You must mean Ethanol, right?

I agree cut that to zero today

 

[bripat9643]

From Wikipiedia's article on energy subsidies

Energy subsidies are measures that keep prices for consumers below market levels or for producers above market levels, or reduce costs for consumers and producers.[1] Energy subsidies may be direct cash transfers to producers, consumers, or related bodies, as well as indirect support mechanisms, such as tax exemptions and rebates, price controls, trade restrictions, and limits on market access. They may also include energy conservation subsidies.[2] The development of today's major modern energy industries have all relied on substantial subsidy support.

Global fossil fuel subsidies represented 6.5% of global GDP in 2015.[3] The elimination of these subsidies is widely seen as one of the most effective ways of reducing global carbon emissions.[3][4]
...
Types of energy subsidies are:

• Direct financial transfers – grants to producers; grants to consumers; low-interest or preferential loans to producers.
• Preferential tax treatments – rebates or exemption on royalties, duties, producer levies and tariffs; tax credit; accelerated depreciation allowances on energy supply equipment.
• Trade restrictions – quota, technical restrictions and trade embargoes.
• Energy-related services provided by government at less than full cost – direct investment in energy infrastructure; public research and development.
• Regulation of the energy sector – demand guarantees and mandated deployment rates; price controls; market-access restrictions; preferential planning consent and controls over access to resources.
• Failure to impose external costs – environmental externality costs; energy security risks and price volatility costs.[6]
• Depletion Allowance – allows a deduction from gross income of up to ~27% for the depletion of exhaustible resources (oil, gas, minerals).

**************************************************************************************************
See any mention of equipment depreciation there? No?

From the same article

The three largest fossil fuel subsidies were:

1. Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion)
2. Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion)
3. Oil and Gas exploration and development expensing ($7.1 billion)

***************************************************************************************************
That's $36.5 billion for an incomplete list

All your talk of equipment depreciation is a fucking red herring.

• Exploring for gas and oil is a legitimate business expense. #3 not a subsidy.
• If every other industry gets the same credit referred to in #1, then it's not a fossil fuel subsidy. So-called "green energy" would get the same exact "subsidy."
• "Non conventional fuels" implies something other than fossil fuels, so how can #2 be a subsidy for fossil fuels?

 

[Crick]

Argue with Wikipedia. As long as you can talk a good case you can simply correct the article.

 

[bripat9643]

Argue with Wikipedia. As long as you can talk a good case you can simply correct the article.

Anything in Wikipedia that is even remotely political is most likely nothing but pure propaganda.

 

[ding]

Argue with Wikipedia. As long as you can talk a good case you can simply correct the article.

You are losing this argument badly. Try taking a more balanced approach.

 

[sakinago]

Of course. You realize equipment depreciation is not the only subsidization the government provides to benefit the oil industry.

^ above you state that equipment depreciation is a subsidy. Not so much of a red herring, as it is a topic you no longer want to discuss.

Speaking of red herrings, what happened to talking about the famous claim of a 97% consensus that the AGW loved to push so much in almost every argument they used.