Opinion Piece: "Why Progressives Misead"

[Mac1958]

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Wow, this is a topic that I think about quite a bit, pretty amazing to have someone write about it:

Why Progressives Mislead by John O. McGinnis City Journal Winter 2015

The primary point is that "Progressivism’s vision of the role of the state conflicts with the system of government envisioned by America’s Founders", and therefore they feel they have to be less than honest about their real goals to see them fulfilled.

I agree completely with that.

Thing is, as a person who agrees with them on many left-of-center issues (or at least disagree with conservatives on them), I don't think dishonesty is necessary. If we are correct on those issues, we should be able to win the battle of ideas in completely honest conversation, yes? And if we lose, then the country just isn't with us, at least right now.

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[JoeB131]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

 

[Mac1958]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

Any actual intelligent input, Joe?

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[ScienceRocks]

The one area that they're right is with funding infrastructure, science and r&d! Believe me, otherwise they do mislead and are shitty people. The same can be said about the tiny government people!

 

[JoeB131]

The primary point is that "Progressivism’s vision of the role of the state conflicts with the system of government envisioned by America’s Founders", and therefore they feel they have to be less than honest about their real goals to see them fulfilled.

"America's Founders" wanted a society where the rich ruled and got to keep owning slaves, and the franchise would only be held by property-owning white males. so, yes, you can argue that the Progressive Movement is in conflict with that. It brought us women's suffrage and the right to vote for minorities and some whacky idea that you don't let people starve to death or die of treatable diseases because they are poor.

Those bastards!

The article goes on to pine that before the Progressive era, the Federal Government only spent 4% of GDP, because the bunch of commies hadn't introduced social security and medicare yet. What it leaves out is that the average life expectancy in 1900 was 46 years for men and 48 for women.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

Any actual intelligent input, Joe?

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I will, but I want to mock the hilarity first.

 

[Mac1958]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

Any actual intelligent input, Joe?

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I will, but I want to mock the hilarity first.

Okay, well, let me know.

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[Mac1958]

The one area that they're right is with funding infrastructure, science and r&d! Believe me, otherwise they do mislead and are shitty people. The same can be said about the tiny government people!

The two ends definitely share behaviors, and it really pisses them off when it's pointed out.

The biggest similarity is their "us vs. them" approach to everything. Kinda gets in the way of improving things.

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[LoneLaugher]

Read through it. The author gave us Obamacare as an example of Progressives misleading America....he called it subterfuge, mentioned Jonathan Gruber and identity politics. A Mac Grand Slam!

 

[JoeB131]

Thing is, as a person who agrees with them on many left-of-center issues (or at least disagree with conservatives on them), I don't think dishonesty is necessary. If we are correct on those issues, we should be able to win the battle of ideas in completely honest conversation, yes? And if we lose, then the country just isn't with us, at least right now.

Well, first, no. Both sides mislead, and when you have media like Fox and MSNBC that just reaffirms biases, you aren't going to have an honest discussion.

The honest discussion should be - "This is what our options are on a social safety net. This is what it's going to cost. Here are suggestions as to who is going to pay for it and how."

We don't have those discussions because we want government to do all these things and we want someone else to pay for it. That's not a progressive or conservative problem, that's an American problem.

The reason why it didn't matter as much from FDR to LBJ was because we had a strong enough middle class to support this kind of safety net. We don't today, mostly because the 1%ers have spent the last few decades shredding it. so more people are in the Safety Net, and less people are contributing to it.

If anyone is misleading the country, it's conservatives who keep claiming we need to cut programs for the needy to give rich people tax cuts so they will magically grow the economy with flying dressage unicorns...

 

[gipper]

The fundamental principle of the progressive system is big unlimited government. Such a government lead by a small elite, as we have today, has never worked long term in all of human history. Ultimately it will fail causing terrible injustice and suffering.

However this fundamental principle applies to nearly all political systems, except libertarian-ism and anarchy.

Government is essentially rule by elite. History tells us rule by elite benefits the elites and harms all others.

 

[JoeB131]

The fundamental principle of the progressive system is big unlimited government. Such a government lead by a small elite, as we have today, has never worked long term in all of human history. Ultimately it will fail causing terrible injustice and suffering.

However this fundamental principle applies to nearly all political systems, except libertarian-ism and anarchy.

Government is essentially rule by elite. History tells us rule by elite benefits the elites and harms all others.

again, when you small government types move to Somalia, I will take you seriously.

 

[gipper]

The fundamental principle of the progressive system is big unlimited government. Such a government lead by a small elite, as we have today, has never worked long term in all of human history. Ultimately it will fail causing terrible injustice and suffering.

However this fundamental principle applies to nearly all political systems, except libertarian-ism and anarchy.

Government is essentially rule by elite. History tells us rule by elite benefits the elites and harms all others.

again, when you small government types move to Somalia, I will take you seriously.

You might want to educate yourself on conditions in Somalia, before citing it. It is not a libertarian or anarchist society.

My guess is you would like it there. It is a nation ruled by warlords...hence rule by elite, which you so like.

 

[Statistikhengst]

OP title:

Opinion Piece: "Why Progressives Misead"

"misead"???

 

[Seawytch]

OP title:

Opinion Piece: "Why Progressives Misead"

"misead"???

Yeah, I saw that too, but I hadn't had enough coffee yet and I read the headline as Onion Piece.

 

[Katzndogz]

The one area that they're right is with funding infrastructure, science and r&d! Believe me, otherwise they do mislead and are shitty people. The same can be said about the tiny government people!

Do you see funding for science, infrastructure and r&d? As soon as they get funding it goes to give the poor freebies.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

Yup a liberals 1st posts is to attack the messenger, not the message how predictable, they always think they are superior and know what's better for us then us.

Fucking morons

 

[Wildman]

i have never been misled by a liberfuck, but i sure have been lied to a whole lot by them.

 

[Mac1958]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

Yup a liberals 1st posts is to attack the messenger, not the message how predictable, they always think they are superior and know what's better for us then us.

Fucking morons

Full disclosure, I knew how much my little thread was going to tweak the hardcore left wingers.

Especially the part about how I lean left on many issues, they sure as hell don't want to hear that.

Guilty as charged!



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