Our Disreputable Fifth Column....

[JakeStarkey]

I am not so sure, Ollie, but that is what history is for, in part: the exploration of the past.

Certainly the 2d front greatly aided the Soviets.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

"Never" is a big word, and the allies were worried enough that they kept going after the Nazi program.

The Soviets beat the Nazis with our help, and they eventually would have beat them without our help and would have dominated Europe.

I don't believe the Russians could have won without the second front. We beat the Nazi's. Not Russia, not the UK, not the USA. WE!.

Russians would be speaking pidgin-Hun today had the US not saved Europe and Russia-by-way. Still, only fools don't get it that Roosevelt's rural electrification won WWII in four years instead of the ten or so it might have taken without rural electrification to power the thousands of factories packing rations and ammo and making parts in every wired part of the US.

And the fact is that Russia sacrificed millions of lives in their own interest, which coincided with US interests. That can be acknowledged without chest thumping horseshit from people who doubt their own worth. Yes, the US could not possibly have been defeated after rural electrification made it a power unique to that age. No, it did not do it alone.

Moving on...

The greatest unacknowledged risk to the US today is lack of rural broadband. If a war came on today, the US would be about on an even footing with India and China and behind Europe. Mass destruction could not be overcome is my point. It'd depend on leadership and guts.

Based on the best of the military since the 1980s and the presidents, the US would be at a disadvantage to Europe and China due to corporate dominance of politics. No potential enemy is controlled by corporations, so all of them have a strategic advantage today.

Plus, there are legitimate questions about America's gut today. The chickenhawk element are proven to be as worthless as the tits on a boar hog when the shit is in the fan, while the human potential movement simply can't be counted on for national defense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is an interesting proposition on your part, Dugdale_Jukes, and I enjoyed reading it.

 

[rightwinger]

"Never" is a big word, and the allies were worried enough that they kept going after the Nazi program.

The Soviets beat the Nazis with our help, and they eventually would have beat them without our help and would have dominated Europe.

I don't believe the Russians could have won without the second front. We beat the Nazi's. Not Russia, not the UK, not the USA. WE!.

By the time we landed at Normandy, the Soviets had already won the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk and turned the tide. The Nazis suffered massive losses and were falling back across all fronts. The second front hastened the end of the war but the Soviets would have eventually prevailed and we would have a much different Europe today

For reference, the Soviets killed 20 times the number of Germans we did. They carried the brunt of the fighting for four years.

 

[JoeB131]

Someone hasn't a clue...........

No, it's just that we Americans go around like we are the best of everything, and the rest of the world just thinks we are a bunch of ignorant bible thumping hayseeds with an inflated opinion of our own importance.

Reality check. America didn't win WWII, Russia did.

No, Russia bled the Germans dry and did the same to themselves as well. We provided the Russians with 600,000 trucks which mobilized their entire army, we gave them millions of tons of munitions, thousands of tanks and thousands of aircraft. We supported them in their darkest hour when they couldn't produce anything due to their factories being moved east, away from the invaders.

The two of us won the war with some serious help from the British Commonwealth.

Yes, I know that's what we like to tell ourselves, but the Soviets did most of the fighting.

 

[westwall]

"Never" is a big word, and the allies were worried enough that they kept going after the Nazi program.

The Soviets beat the Nazis with our help, and they eventually would have beat them without our help and would have dominated Europe.

But it IS accurate in this case. They were trying to build a hydrogen bomb not realizing you needed a fission bomb to set it off. They were never going to get a fusion bomb to work.

 

[westwall]

No, it's just that we Americans go around like we are the best of everything, and the rest of the world just thinks we are a bunch of ignorant bible thumping hayseeds with an inflated opinion of our own importance.

Reality check. America didn't win WWII, Russia did.

No, Russia bled the Germans dry and did the same to themselves as well. We provided the Russians with 600,000 trucks which mobilized their entire army, we gave them millions of tons of munitions, thousands of tanks and thousands of aircraft. We supported them in their darkest hour when they couldn't produce anything due to their factories being moved east, away from the invaders.

The two of us won the war with some serious help from the British Commonwealth.

Yes, I know that's what we like to tell ourselves, but the Soviets did most of the fighting.

And I acknowledged that didn't I? However, they wouldn't have made it to 1943 without us. We gave them the means to fight.

 

[JakeStarkey]

westwall clearly does not know even the most basic of WWII eastern front history.

 

[rightwinger]

westwall clearly does not know even the most basic of WWII eastern front history.

Most Americans dont

 

[JakeStarkey]

yup, you are right

 

[Wry Catcher]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Did you think this OP was about the soldiers?

About human nature?

About war?


None of the above.

It is about the attack of the Leftists in the media on the reputation, the memory of the soldiers who freed Europe, and by extension, the nation.

It's about the sleazy America-haters who take the opportunity to turn a great moment in our history and drag it, and us, through the mud.

I suspect PBS is suspect to you as it is to most conservatives. However, American Experience is a terrific program and one which will many times use interviews of persons who have personal experience to the topic. One such episode was on winning the war in the Pacific.

A number of former Marines and Army personnel were interviewed and one former corpsman described the horrific desecration of our personnel by the Japanese. He also described the hate the Americans had for the Japanese and how they too desecrated their bodies as well as shot and killed wounded enemies. "War is hell" is spot on and not something a nation should embark upon lightly.

 

[JakeStarkey]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Did you think this OP was about the soldiers? About human nature? About war? None of the above. It is about the attack of the Leftists in the media on the reputation, the memory of the soldiers who freed Europe, and by extension, the nation. It's about the sleazy America-haters who take the opportunity to turn a great moment in our history and drag it, and us, through the mud.

I suspect PBS is suspect to you as it is to most conservatives. However, American Experience is a terrific program and one which will many times use interviews of persons who have personal experience to the topic. One such episode was on winning the war in the Pacific.

A number of former Marines and Army personnel were interviewed and one former corpsman described the horrific desecration of our personnel by the Japanese. He also described the hate the Americans had for the Japanese and how they too desecrated their bodies as well as shot and killed wounded enemies. "War is hell" is spot on and not something a nation should embark upon lightly.

Political Creepy is a 20th century neo-con imperialist and social traditionalist.

My father and stepfather, both active participants in the Pacific War, would agree with the PBS findings about combat there.

 

[PoliticalChic]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Did you think this OP was about the soldiers?

About human nature?

About war?


None of the above.

It is about the attack of the Leftists in the media on the reputation, the memory of the soldiers who freed Europe, and by extension, the nation.

It's about the sleazy America-haters who take the opportunity to turn a great moment in our history and drag it, and us, through the mud.

I suspect PBS is suspect to you as it is to most conservatives. However, American Experience is a terrific program and one which will many times use interviews of persons who have personal experience to the topic. One such episode was on winning the war in the Pacific.

A number of former Marines and Army personnel were interviewed and one former corpsman described the horrific desecration of our personnel by the Japanese. He also described the hate the Americans had for the Japanese and how they too desecrated their bodies as well as shot and killed wounded enemies. "War is hell" is spot on and not something a nation should embark upon lightly.

And that addresses the following....how?

"It is about the attack of the Leftists in the media on the reputation, the memory of the soldiers who freed Europe, and by extension, the nation.

It's about the sleazy America-haters who take the opportunity to turn a great moment in our history and drag it, and us, through the mud."

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are entitled to your opinion, PC, no matter just how distorted and uninformed it may be.

You reactionaries far to the right are every can seem as devious and full of faux rage as the far lefties, but to think PBS is "far left" is just silly.

Step off.

 

[Dragonlady]

"Fact: Over the past few weeks, four major scandals have broken over the Obama administration, and it is a very sad (and frightening) truth that our pathetic, American, lapdog mainstream media are not responsible for breaking even a single one."
Mainstream Media Did Not Break Even One of Four Obama Scandals


And which main stream media outlets reported this:

"Publicly released records show that embattled former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman visited the White House at least 157 times during the Obama administration, more recorded visits than even the most trusted members of the president’s Cabinet."
Shulman had more White House visits than any Cabinet member | The Daily Caller


Did you say none???



With very little effort you have become our main source of greenhouse gases.

Bullshit! The IRS outed itself. How would anyone outside of the IRS have known they were targetting political groups for charitable status? All the groups in question were eventually given the status they requested, except for a handful of LEFT WING GROUPS. I guess you missed that part.

Shulman's visits to the White House have been completely debunked. He was cleared to attend 157 meetings in regard to the IRS' role in implementing the ACA, but in fact, White House records show he hardly ever attended any of them.

Douglas Shulman White House Visits Reveal Meetings To Implement Health Care Law

Benghazi is only a scandal if you're a right wing loon. Otherwise you'd have screamed SCANDAL at the 9 embassy attacks that took place in the 8 years that Bush was in power. In all, 34 people died. Where is the outrage over those deaths. Why wasn't more done to protect those workers. Why weren't you folks panting after Bush to explain himself on these attacks?

How is Verizon a scandal. You've known that Homeland Security was monitoring emails since Bush was in power. You were fine with it then. Everything you do on the internet is tracked and monitored. It's always been like that. Anyone who thought otherwise is a fool. Resources existed from the moment you first logged on to allow someone to follow you around the internet. Stores use them as sales tracking tools. But there are lots of less wholesome uses too.

As for the Associated Press. It's pretty hard for the mainstream media to pick up a story when the government department discloses it first. That's what happened with the IRS story too. When a government department says "This is what we did", I would call that "making disclosure". When the government discloses something that they've done, IT'S NOT A SCANDAL. It's only a scandal when they lie about it and try to cover it up. When they say "We did this", they're making disclosure.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hide it, disguise it, however they may, there is a major design in the media to downgrade the nation, to put it in a poor light.

To me, the only explanation is that there is a 'fifth column' with the aim of bringing down the United States.


Today is June 6th.
D-Day.

It represents the beginning of the end of the forces of darkness in WWII.
All credit to brave, noble young men of the 'Greatest Generation.'





Note the way CBS News celebrates those souls.


1. "When some liberators were criminals

2. (CBS News) With the anniversary of the 1944 D-Day invasion due this coming Thursday, there's an untold story that's coming to light about some of the soldiers who took part -- and we warn you, it's not an easy story to hear. Here's national security correspondent David Martin:

3....not all American soldiers conducted themselves like members of the "Greatest Generation."
"War does bad things to people in general," said Atkinson. "It makes good soldiers do bad things, and it makes bad soldiers do terrible things."

4. Roberts photographed documents in which French officials complained of a "regime of terror" perpetrated by "bandits in uniform." Also, said Roberts, "There [were] many rape accusations on the part of the Norman women."

5. "The GIs had a preconception of France as -- as one journalist put -- a gigantic brothel," said Roberts. "And in fact Hitler also called France the brothel of Europe."

6. ...D-Day unleashed "a veritable tsunami of male lust" on French villages..."
When some liberators were criminals - CBS News





Who selects the stories?
What is the purpose....what message to young Americans...that their nation is not worthy of defending, of preserving?





This is why we wind up with a President who says "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."