Our Disreputable Fifth Column....

[rightwinger]

4. It was a Fifth Column that cost the United States victory in Viet Nam.
It is a Fifth Column that teaches our children that the United States is no different, and usually worse, than other nations.

The Fifth Column saved thousands of US lives in Viet Nam. If anything, they were too late in questioning the war. I only wish they had been more vigilant when Bush decided to invade Iraq

You misunderstand what happened.

They took their orders from the enemy.
And convinced folks like you that principles were involved.




1. NYTimes’ Harrison Salisbury traveled to North Vietnam in 1966-67, and reported that the US was deliberately targeting the civilian population. But Guenter Lewy, in “America in Vietnam,” revealed that “Only after the articles had appeared did a small number of persons learn that Salisbury, in effect, had given the authority of his byline to unverified Communist propaganda and the New York Times printed it as though Salisbury had established it himself with his own on-the-scene reporting…borrowed extensively from a North Vietnamese propaganda pamphlet, “Report on US War Crimes in Nam-Dinh City…” Lewy, p. 400-401


Not the first time Communist propaganda has appeared....and succeeded.


2. Another indication of the subservience of the communists to a foreign government can be seen during WWII. At the behest of the Commintern, as the archives reveals, the American Peace Mobilization committee was formed in April of ’41. It’s function was to support the Soviet line, bring progressives aboard, protest against the lend-lease program to aid Britain…they paraded in front of the White House, chanting “FDR is a fascist, …he’s starting a war!’ They managed to dupe the easiest group to dupe: progressive pastors. The NYTimes article at the time said “Clergyman Group Opposes War Aid!’

a. In mid-protest, on June 22, 1941, they became pro-war! The Germans had broken their agreement with the Soviets, and invaded Russia! Suddenly the group was for lend-lease, and FDR wasn’t a fascist…and they changed their name to American People’s Mobilization.
Dr. Paul Kengor, Hoover Institution, Stanford “DUPES: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century"

The press bought into the Gulf of Tonkin bullshit, they trumpeted the Domino Theory, bought into the military assertins of "we only need 150,000 more troops to win this thing, they bought into "Victory is just around the corner"

It was not until 1968 that the press started to ask the hard questions. Why are we here? What is the plan for victory? Is it worth losing 60,000 lives? The public eventually turned sour on the war. They grew tired of local boys coming home in a casket. They realized they were being lied to

Without the press we would have continued our practice of throwing more and more boys into the meatgrinder in pursuit of a victory that was "Just around the corner" They saved thousands of American lives. They could have saved tens of thousands more if they had done their jobs sooner

 

[PoliticalChic]

Nah, yours is a reactionary statist neo-con argument, PC.

(1) The press has the right to investigate the government, as you would agree with your friend Obama.

(2) The American people have the right to tell the government "no".

To suggest that American dissent is somehow '5th column' as if it were somehow equivalent to fascist groups in Europe spits on the American culture and its narrative.

The press does not investigate the government if the government is Leftist, as you are.

But....as this required more space....I will post on OP on the topic later.

Oh? IRS? Hmmm?

I am in the mainstream, while you are a Far Right Statist Reactionary.

Let's keep our definitions accurate. Remember that you are not entitled to your own definitions, terms, and facts.

Here ya' go, HotAir:

"Fact: Over the past few weeks, four major scandals have broken over the Obama administration, and it is a very sad (and frightening) truth that our pathetic, American, lapdog mainstream media are not responsible for breaking even a single one."
Mainstream Media Did Not Break Even One of Four Obama Scandals


And which main stream media outlets reported this:

"Publicly released records show that embattled former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman visited the White House at least 157 times during the Obama administration, more recorded visits than even the most trusted members of the president’s Cabinet."
Shulman had more White House visits than any Cabinet member | The Daily Caller


Did you say none???



With very little effort you have become our main source of greenhouse gases.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Nah, yours is a reactionary statist neo-con argument, PC.

(1) The press has the right to investigate the government, as you would agree with your friend Obama.

(2) The American people have the right to tell the government "no".

To suggest that American dissent is somehow '5th column' as if it were somehow equivalent to fascist groups in Europe spits on the American culture and its narrative.

The press does not investigate the government if the government is Leftist, as you are.

But....as this required more space....I will post on OP on the topic later.

Oh? IRS? Hmmm?

I am in the mainstream, while you are a Far Right Statist Reactionary.

Let's keep our definitions accurate. Remember that you are not entitled to your own definitions, terms, and facts.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/media/297529-the-role-of-the-media.html#post7345499

 

[JakeStarkey]

Which changes nothing. I am mainstream and you are to the far, far right.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Which changes nothing. I am mainstream and you are to the far, far right.

Let's refine the debate: I'm honest....you, not so much.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am sure you tell yourself that as you redefine terms and definitions and facts.

 

[bripat9643]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Hardly. They surrendered half of Europe to a greater evil: communism.

 

[rightwinger]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Hardly. They surrendered half of Europe to a greater evil: communism.

The communists already held half of Europe

 

[JakeStarkey]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Hardly. They surrendered half of Europe to a greater evil: communism.

Hardly. The communists stood on half of Europe.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Fifth Column saved thousands of US lives in Viet Nam. If anything, they were too late in questioning the war. I only wish they had been more vigilant when Bush decided to invade Iraq

You misunderstand what happened.

They took their orders from the enemy.
And convinced folks like you that principles were involved.




1. NYTimes’ Harrison Salisbury traveled to North Vietnam in 1966-67, and reported that the US was deliberately targeting the civilian population. But Guenter Lewy, in “America in Vietnam,” revealed that “Only after the articles had appeared did a small number of persons learn that Salisbury, in effect, had given the authority of his byline to unverified Communist propaganda and the New York Times printed it as though Salisbury had established it himself with his own on-the-scene reporting…borrowed extensively from a North Vietnamese propaganda pamphlet, “Report on US War Crimes in Nam-Dinh City…” Lewy, p. 400-401


Not the first time Communist propaganda has appeared....and succeeded.


2. Another indication of the subservience of the communists to a foreign government can be seen during WWII. At the behest of the Commintern, as the archives reveals, the American Peace Mobilization committee was formed in April of ’41. It’s function was to support the Soviet line, bring progressives aboard, protest against the lend-lease program to aid Britain…they paraded in front of the White House, chanting “FDR is a fascist, …he’s starting a war!’ They managed to dupe the easiest group to dupe: progressive pastors. The NYTimes article at the time said “Clergyman Group Opposes War Aid!’

a. In mid-protest, on June 22, 1941, they became pro-war! The Germans had broken their agreement with the Soviets, and invaded Russia! Suddenly the group was for lend-lease, and FDR wasn’t a fascist…and they changed their name to American People’s Mobilization.
Dr. Paul Kengor, Hoover Institution, Stanford “DUPES: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century"

The press bought into the Gulf of Tonkin bullshit, they trumpeted the Domino Theory, bought into the military assertins of "we only need 150,000 more troops to win this thing, they bought into "Victory is just around the corner"

It was not until 1968 that the press started to ask the hard questions. Why are we here? What is the plan for victory? Is it worth losing 60,000 lives? The public eventually turned sour on the war. They grew tired of local boys coming home in a casket. They realized they were being lied to

Without the press we would have continued our practice of throwing more and more boys into the meatgrinder in pursuit of a victory that was "Just around the corner" They saved thousands of American lives. They could have saved tens of thousands more if they had done their jobs sooner

The communications records from the Gulf of Tonkin have been declassified. I suggest you find and read them.

 

[PoliticalChic]

War is war, and American GIs were soldiers in war: yes, atrocities occurred.

Our GIs still were angels compared to the demonic Nazis, and our GIs and Brits and French and allies liberated Europe from one of the greatest evils in history of mankind.

Hardly. They surrendered half of Europe to a greater evil: communism.

The communists already held half of Europe

Bet you know who Europe had to thank for that.


From "FDR Goes To War," by Folsom and Folsom:

1. Roosevelt joined forces with Churchill and Stalin, but Roosevelt especially liked and trusted Stalin, whom he called “Uncle Joe.” Thus, when Churchill and various military leaders supported and Allied invasion of Central Europe- to stop the Russian advance- FDR listed to Stalin instead and insisted on as second front far to the west of Germany. “Stalin is not an imperialist,” Roosevelt insisted. P.304.

a. At Teheran and Yalta, Roosevelt trusted Stalin to grant free elections to Poland and Eastern Europe.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Truth is that we could have gotten to Berlin before the Russians. Had we been permitted by the politicians.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Considering the Russians had suffered far worse than even the French, allowing them the glory of taking Berlin in East Germany had merits.

I am waiting for the silliness to emerge some think that the USA-Brit-Fr-German allies could have run the USSR out of eastern Europe, and that somehow it was all a communist plot that we did not.

 

[westwall]

Hide it, disguise it, however they may, there is a major design in the media to downgrade the nation, to put it in a poor light.

To me, the only explanation is that there is a 'fifth column' with the aim of bringing down the United States.


Today is June 6th.
D-Day.

It represents the beginning of the end of the forces of darkness in WWII.
All credit to brave, noble young men of the 'Greatest Generation.'





Note the way CBS News celebrates those souls.


1. "When some liberators were criminals

2. (CBS News) With the anniversary of the 1944 D-Day invasion due this coming Thursday, there's an untold story that's coming to light about some of the soldiers who took part -- and we warn you, it's not an easy story to hear. Here's national security correspondent David Martin:

3....not all American soldiers conducted themselves like members of the "Greatest Generation."
"War does bad things to people in general," said Atkinson. "It makes good soldiers do bad things, and it makes bad soldiers do terrible things."

4. Roberts photographed documents in which French officials complained of a "regime of terror" perpetrated by "bandits in uniform." Also, said Roberts, "There [were] many rape accusations on the part of the Norman women."

5. "The GIs had a preconception of France as -- as one journalist put -- a gigantic brothel," said Roberts. "And in fact Hitler also called France the brothel of Europe."

6. ...D-Day unleashed "a veritable tsunami of male lust" on French villages..."
When some liberators were criminals - CBS News





Who selects the stories?
What is the purpose....what message to young Americans...that their nation is not worthy of defending, of preserving?





This is why we wind up with a President who says "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."

They call themselves the "Fourth Estate" so they feel they are part of the ruling class and will promote those stories which hurt their opponents and suppress those that hurt their allies. They are not a fifth column, they are a full fledged warmaking body.

 

[rightwinger]

Hardly. They surrendered half of Europe to a greater evil: communism.

The communists already held half of Europe

Bet you know who Europe had to thank for that.


From "FDR Goes To War," by Folsom and Folsom:

1. Roosevelt joined forces with Churchill and Stalin, but Roosevelt especially liked and trusted Stalin, whom he called “Uncle Joe.” Thus, when Churchill and various military leaders supported and Allied invasion of Central Europe- to stop the Russian advance- FDR listed to Stalin instead and insisted on as second front far to the west of Germany. “Stalin is not an imperialist,” Roosevelt insisted. P.304.

a. At Teheran and Yalta, Roosevelt trusted Stalin to grant free elections to Poland and Eastern Europe.

FDR understood who he was dealing with with Stalin

The problem was that "Uncle Joe" controlled Eastern Europe. It was not FDRs to give

 

[rightwinger]

Considering the Russians had suffered far worse than even the French, allowing them the glory of taking Berlin in East Germany had merits.

I am waiting for the silliness to emerge some think that the USA-Brit-Fr-German allies could have run the USSR out of eastern Europe, and that somehow it was all a communist plot that we did not.

The Russians killed 20 times the number go Germans we did and had suffered more casualties than anyone in the war. They were not going to meekly turn over captured territory

 

[PoliticalChic]

The communists already held half of Europe

Bet you know who Europe had to thank for that.


From "FDR Goes To War," by Folsom and Folsom:

1. Roosevelt joined forces with Churchill and Stalin, but Roosevelt especially liked and trusted Stalin, whom he called “Uncle Joe.” Thus, when Churchill and various military leaders supported and Allied invasion of Central Europe- to stop the Russian advance- FDR listed to Stalin instead and insisted on as second front far to the west of Germany. “Stalin is not an imperialist,” Roosevelt insisted. P.304.

a. At Teheran and Yalta, Roosevelt trusted Stalin to grant free elections to Poland and Eastern Europe.

FDR understood who he was dealing with with Stalin

The problem was that "Uncle Joe" controlled Eastern Europe. It was not FDRs to give

It seems that your bias won't allow you to see the truth.

So taken with himself, he couldn't imagine that he was being outsmarted.



The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, Witness, Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.


Open your eyes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This neo-anti-communism of the 21st century reeks of skousenite and john birch and Heritage nonsense.

Discredited neo-con, projectionist nonsense: just a bunch of used up talking points.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This neo-anti-communism of the 21st century reeks of skousenite and john birch and Heritage nonsense.

Discredited neo-con, projectionist nonsense: just a bunch of used up talking points.

A post filled with bloviation....not one specific nor rebuttal of facts that I provided.

I so very much appreciate the proof that you are a total windbag.

Is your name Maple Syrup? It should be, you sap.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Considering the Russians had suffered far worse than even the French, allowing them the glory of taking Berlin in East Germany had merits.

I am waiting for the silliness to emerge some think that the USA-Brit-Fr-German allies could have run the USSR out of eastern Europe, and that somehow it was all a communist plot that we did not.

I'm not so sure about the merits. Patton certainly believed he could take on the Russians... I don't think it would have been a good idea. But we still could have taken Berlin.