Pentagon says that we would lose a war with China by 2030.

[harmonica]

I think that is a little optimistic. I suspect that the date is actually, right now.

US would lose a war with China fought in the Pacific, sources warn

'Eye-opening' Pentagon war games have revealed the US is vulnerable to China and that an attack from the superpower would lead to the US 'suffering capital losses', sources told The Times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Part of the problem is that the Navy, and actually the entire Military, suffers from multiple personality disorder. A decade ago it was decided that we had no more use for Frigates. Those small ships that were too small to really operate on their own and were not large enough to project force from the sea inland at all. So all the Frigates were decommissioned. Those little ships are valuable escorts however. They provide a ring of defense around any task force. By getting rid of them, you denude your defensive capability dramatically. It is one less defensive ring to deal with.

The Navy recently realized the enormity of their mistake. They don’t have any Frigates on the drawing board that they can start construction with, and starting from scratch would take years to even begin. So the Navy has just announced that they will be buying Frigates from Italy.

Navy's New Frigate Will Be Based on Italian Ship With 'Officer-Quality' Staterooms

The frigate is an important part of the Navy's plan to position itself for future fights.

www.military.com

Now the We’re Awesome crowd will scream murder about the awesome F-22 and F-35’s. But what they don’t understand is that quantity is a quality all it’s own. And the quality is able to be matched. In time, surpassed. But as I tried to point out during the early days of the Syrian Misadventure, the Russians and Chinese answer is missiles. A lot of them.

People downplay the Russian answer because it is different than our own. But let’s say you can intercept twenty missiles. What do you do if the enemy shoots 21 at you? Eventually the number of missiles inbound will overwhelm and swamp your defenses. Some are going to get through if the enemy shoots enough of them at you. Then your multiple billion dollar carrier is a new addition to the Bottom of the Ocean.

The only way to do it is sink the enemy ships before they sink yours. But here again, we have a disadvantage. Even Submarines have a limited number of shots on board. And every time they fire, they let the enemy know they are there, and even the stealthiest submarine can be located if the enemy is looking hard enough, and let’s be honest, they’ll be looking awfully hard won’t they?

Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

The Chinese army has more troops than we have ammunition. They have millions of troops, and infinite space to absorb attacks. They would be close to their lines of supply, and we would be far from ours. Our supply lines would be stretched to the breaking point in days, or a couple weeks maximum. It would take years to build the military we needed to return to the Status Quo Ante, and to defeat China? That would be virtually impossible.

Yes, we have nukes. And they have nukes, and we can turn the Chinese Cities into parking lots that glow in the dark. But what then? They’ll return the favor, turning many of our cities into similar scenes of destruction. We can’t turn the entire country of China into radioactive cinders. And even if we could we would be pariahs in the International World, alone without friends.

So what can we do? First, we can honestly admit that we are vulnerable. Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify it. Second, we can start a realistic examination of our Military from top to bottom. What do we need to do to protect our interests in the real world, instead of the easy one where we always win the war games? Third, we can start realistically examining our military technology. We are getting rid of hundreds of airplanes right now so we can afford a few more F-35’s. Yes, it may be an awesome plane, but if we have too few of them to do the job, what good is it to have a single awesome plane?

We got into this mess sacrificing old but good technology for awesome new. To save money. The Navy has no Fleet Interceptors to replace the decommissioned F-14’s. We got rid of the best Interceptor we ever had, because we could get everyone into one kind of plane, the F/A 18, and then declare it was obsolete so we could buy the F-35.

We abandoned the “unrealistic” scenario of having a Military that could fight two and a half wars. Now we have one that could not really fight even one war. Oh they can bomb the living crap out of some backwards Jihadi in the middle of the Desert. They can do that just fine, but they do not train to fight overwhelming odds, they don’t train and equip to fight enemies who are comparatively equal in training and equipment. They train to fight insurgents and religious nutters. Always with an overwhelming advantage of technology and information.

I doubt we could beat Iran in a stand up fight in all honesty. War Games have been denuded to the enemy doing exactly what you would want them to. If our ships can intercept twenty missiles, the notional enemy obligingly sends ten in the war game. If our troops are capable of fighting numerically inferior troops equipped with a hodgepodge of technology and weapons, the enemy obligingly puts underquipped and ill trained troops in the field, for our war games anyway.

We need to wake up, and we need to realize that just because we scream we’re number one, doesn’t mean we are. We need to realize that the enemy is unlikely to oblige your plans and stand stoically still and let you kill them. They are unlikely to surrender control of the air and sea without costing us a lot in the process, and even then it would be contested.

Wake up folks, or in ten years, we will see America’s military hugging the coast, afraid to venture out into the deep blue ocean because there be Dragons out there.

I grew up during the arms race and coldwar. The fucking military was always crying wolf in order to get more money to piss away on shit like overpriced toilet seats and ashtrays. The big bad boogey man back then was the FORMER and now defunct USSR.

fuck you, you jackass American hater
..for your information--the military can't go ANYWHERE without orders from the civilians!!!!!!!!DUH MOFO
“The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.”

A quote by Douglas MacArthur

The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.

www.goodreads.com

No fuck you asshole! How does one spend seven years in the service defending his nation and having their ass shot at to have some worthless piece of shit punk like you tell him he hates his country? It's far more likely that you're just an asshole with a big fucking mouth and no brains.

hahhahahahah I was in for 8 ..hahahhaha

......stop bad mouthing the military ...the CIVILIANS authorize what the military gets or not

 

[harmonica]

I think that is a little optimistic. I suspect that the date is actually, right now.

US would lose a war with China fought in the Pacific, sources warn

'Eye-opening' Pentagon war games have revealed the US is vulnerable to China and that an attack from the superpower would lead to the US 'suffering capital losses', sources told The Times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Part of the problem is that the Navy, and actually the entire Military, suffers from multiple personality disorder. A decade ago it was decided that we had no more use for Frigates. Those small ships that were too small to really operate on their own and were not large enough to project force from the sea inland at all. So all the Frigates were decommissioned. Those little ships are valuable escorts however. They provide a ring of defense around any task force. By getting rid of them, you denude your defensive capability dramatically. It is one less defensive ring to deal with.

The Navy recently realized the enormity of their mistake. They don’t have any Frigates on the drawing board that they can start construction with, and starting from scratch would take years to even begin. So the Navy has just announced that they will be buying Frigates from Italy.

Navy's New Frigate Will Be Based on Italian Ship With 'Officer-Quality' Staterooms

The frigate is an important part of the Navy's plan to position itself for future fights.

www.military.com

Now the We’re Awesome crowd will scream murder about the awesome F-22 and F-35’s. But what they don’t understand is that quantity is a quality all it’s own. And the quality is able to be matched. In time, surpassed. But as I tried to point out during the early days of the Syrian Misadventure, the Russians and Chinese answer is missiles. A lot of them.

People downplay the Russian answer because it is different than our own. But let’s say you can intercept twenty missiles. What do you do if the enemy shoots 21 at you? Eventually the number of missiles inbound will overwhelm and swamp your defenses. Some are going to get through if the enemy shoots enough of them at you. Then your multiple billion dollar carrier is a new addition to the Bottom of the Ocean.

The only way to do it is sink the enemy ships before they sink yours. But here again, we have a disadvantage. Even Submarines have a limited number of shots on board. And every time they fire, they let the enemy know they are there, and even the stealthiest submarine can be located if the enemy is looking hard enough, and let’s be honest, they’ll be looking awfully hard won’t they?

Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

The Chinese army has more troops than we have ammunition. They have millions of troops, and infinite space to absorb attacks. They would be close to their lines of supply, and we would be far from ours. Our supply lines would be stretched to the breaking point in days, or a couple weeks maximum. It would take years to build the military we needed to return to the Status Quo Ante, and to defeat China? That would be virtually impossible.

Yes, we have nukes. And they have nukes, and we can turn the Chinese Cities into parking lots that glow in the dark. But what then? They’ll return the favor, turning many of our cities into similar scenes of destruction. We can’t turn the entire country of China into radioactive cinders. And even if we could we would be pariahs in the International World, alone without friends.

So what can we do? First, we can honestly admit that we are vulnerable. Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify it. Second, we can start a realistic examination of our Military from top to bottom. What do we need to do to protect our interests in the real world, instead of the easy one where we always win the war games? Third, we can start realistically examining our military technology. We are getting rid of hundreds of airplanes right now so we can afford a few more F-35’s. Yes, it may be an awesome plane, but if we have too few of them to do the job, what good is it to have a single awesome plane?

We got into this mess sacrificing old but good technology for awesome new. To save money. The Navy has no Fleet Interceptors to replace the decommissioned F-14’s. We got rid of the best Interceptor we ever had, because we could get everyone into one kind of plane, the F/A 18, and then declare it was obsolete so we could buy the F-35.

We abandoned the “unrealistic” scenario of having a Military that could fight two and a half wars. Now we have one that could not really fight even one war. Oh they can bomb the living crap out of some backwards Jihadi in the middle of the Desert. They can do that just fine, but they do not train to fight overwhelming odds, they don’t train and equip to fight enemies who are comparatively equal in training and equipment. They train to fight insurgents and religious nutters. Always with an overwhelming advantage of technology and information.

I doubt we could beat Iran in a stand up fight in all honesty. War Games have been denuded to the enemy doing exactly what you would want them to. If our ships can intercept twenty missiles, the notional enemy obligingly sends ten in the war game. If our troops are capable of fighting numerically inferior troops equipped with a hodgepodge of technology and weapons, the enemy obligingly puts underquipped and ill trained troops in the field, for our war games anyway.

We need to wake up, and we need to realize that just because we scream we’re number one, doesn’t mean we are. We need to realize that the enemy is unlikely to oblige your plans and stand stoically still and let you kill them. They are unlikely to surrender control of the air and sea without costing us a lot in the process, and even then it would be contested.

Wake up folks, or in ten years, we will see America’s military hugging the coast, afraid to venture out into the deep blue ocean because there be Dragons out there.

I grew up during the arms race and coldwar. The fucking military was always crying wolf in order to get more money to piss away on shit like overpriced toilet seats and ashtrays. The big bad boogey man back then was the FORMER and now defunct USSR.

fuck you, you jackass American hater
..for your information--the military can't go ANYWHERE without orders from the civilians!!!!!!!!DUH MOFO
“The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.”

A quote by Douglas MacArthur

The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.

www.goodreads.com

No fuck you asshole! How does one spend seven years in the service defending his nation and having their ass shot at to have some worthless piece of shit punk like you tell him he hates his country? It's far more likely that you're just an asshole with a big fucking mouth and no brains.

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

 

[JoeB131]

..what war for oil was that?

The one we've been fighting in the middle east since 2001.

Oh. Wait. you probably think it was about "Terror". Silly man.

 

[JimBowie1958]

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

I did five years, because I signed up for four years and then extended another year to get some additional training.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

we are at war with China???!!!???

Well, for the record, we are still at war with Germany.

No shit.

How do you figure that?

 

[justoffal]

I think that is a little optimistic. I suspect that the date is actually, right now.

US would lose a war with China fought in the Pacific, sources warn

'Eye-opening' Pentagon war games have revealed the US is vulnerable to China and that an attack from the superpower would lead to the US 'suffering capital losses', sources told The Times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Part of the problem is that the Navy, and actually the entire Military, suffers from multiple personality disorder. A decade ago it was decided that we had no more use for Frigates. Those small ships that were too small to really operate on their own and were not large enough to project force from the sea inland at all. So all the Frigates were decommissioned. Those little ships are valuable escorts however. They provide a ring of defense around any task force. By getting rid of them, you denude your defensive capability dramatically. It is one less defensive ring to deal with.

The Navy recently realized the enormity of their mistake. They don’t have any Frigates on the drawing board that they can start construction with, and starting from scratch would take years to even begin. So the Navy has just announced that they will be buying Frigates from Italy.

Navy's New Frigate Will Be Based on Italian Ship With 'Officer-Quality' Staterooms

The frigate is an important part of the Navy's plan to position itself for future fights.

www.military.com

Now the We’re Awesome crowd will scream murder about the awesome F-22 and F-35’s. But what they don’t understand is that quantity is a quality all it’s own. And the quality is able to be matched. In time, surpassed. But as I tried to point out during the early days of the Syrian Misadventure, the Russians and Chinese answer is missiles. A lot of them.

People downplay the Russian answer because it is different than our own. But let’s say you can intercept twenty missiles. What do you do if the enemy shoots 21 at you? Eventually the number of missiles inbound will overwhelm and swamp your defenses. Some are going to get through if the enemy shoots enough of them at you. Then your multiple billion dollar carrier is a new addition to the Bottom of the Ocean.

The only way to do it is sink the enemy ships before they sink yours. But here again, we have a disadvantage. Even Submarines have a limited number of shots on board. And every time they fire, they let the enemy know they are there, and even the stealthiest submarine can be located if the enemy is looking hard enough, and let’s be honest, they’ll be looking awfully hard won’t they?

Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

The Chinese army has more troops than we have ammunition. They have millions of troops, and infinite space to absorb attacks. They would be close to their lines of supply, and we would be far from ours. Our supply lines would be stretched to the breaking point in days, or a couple weeks maximum. It would take years to build the military we needed to return to the Status Quo Ante, and to defeat China? That would be virtually impossible.

Yes, we have nukes. And they have nukes, and we can turn the Chinese Cities into parking lots that glow in the dark. But what then? They’ll return the favor, turning many of our cities into similar scenes of destruction. We can’t turn the entire country of China into radioactive cinders. And even if we could we would be pariahs in the International World, alone without friends.

So what can we do? First, we can honestly admit that we are vulnerable. Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify it. Second, we can start a realistic examination of our Military from top to bottom. What do we need to do to protect our interests in the real world, instead of the easy one where we always win the war games? Third, we can start realistically examining our military technology. We are getting rid of hundreds of airplanes right now so we can afford a few more F-35’s. Yes, it may be an awesome plane, but if we have too few of them to do the job, what good is it to have a single awesome plane?

We got into this mess sacrificing old but good technology for awesome new. To save money. The Navy has no Fleet Interceptors to replace the decommissioned F-14’s. We got rid of the best Interceptor we ever had, because we could get everyone into one kind of plane, the F/A 18, and then declare it was obsolete so we could buy the F-35.

We abandoned the “unrealistic” scenario of having a Military that could fight two and a half wars. Now we have one that could not really fight even one war. Oh they can bomb the living crap out of some backwards Jihadi in the middle of the Desert. They can do that just fine, but they do not train to fight overwhelming odds, they don’t train and equip to fight enemies who are comparatively equal in training and equipment. They train to fight insurgents and religious nutters. Always with an overwhelming advantage of technology and information.

I doubt we could beat Iran in a stand up fight in all honesty. War Games have been denuded to the enemy doing exactly what you would want them to. If our ships can intercept twenty missiles, the notional enemy obligingly sends ten in the war game. If our troops are capable of fighting numerically inferior troops equipped with a hodgepodge of technology and weapons, the enemy obligingly puts underquipped and ill trained troops in the field, for our war games anyway.

We need to wake up, and we need to realize that just because we scream we’re number one, doesn’t mean we are. We need to realize that the enemy is unlikely to oblige your plans and stand stoically still and let you kill them. They are unlikely to surrender control of the air and sea without costing us a lot in the process, and even then it would be contested.

Wake up folks, or in ten years, we will see America’s military hugging the coast, afraid to venture out into the deep blue ocean because there be Dragons out there.

The new Russian S-4 Missile system is extremely dangerous and accurate and can probably take down a high flying fighter at top speed..... There's nothing like it on the planet at this pont.

JO

 

[FA_Q2]

Bullshit.

Sounds like nothing more than an attempt to gain more funding.

 

[Unkotare]

The way to beat China is actually quite simple: an Ohio-class submarine 100 miles off Shanghai and a Trident missile.

Great, and when they retaliate? When they turn say twenty or thirty of our cities into ruins, what then? How many millions of our citizens would die to pay for your “simple” solution?

Not gonna happen.

 

[Flash]

It will take us years to recover from the damage Obama did to the military.

Trump is making good headway but it will take time.

God forbid that dipshit Biden wins. He will continue the Obama destruction.

 

[Aletheia4u]

Most likely this Pentagon source is working for the Deep State. The Deep State needs more funds to create more weapons to use on Pres.Trump's supporters. And so they might stage another false flag attack on the American people and blame it on China, by leaving some bread crumbs that came from Chinese rice cakes at the scene of the crime.
It is all about a small group of people controlling the entire population of people. That this small group cannot let the population keep growing. Or else they will have a fight on their hand. They only have enough weapons to destroy a third of the population. But now they need more tax money to be able to destroy the rest of the population if they get out of line with them.

 

[harmonica]

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

I did five years, because I signed up for four years and then extended another year to get some additional training.

..yes I did about 7.8..I re-upped before my first was over...but, like I said, that's unusual ...and it's unusual for someone to do 1 more year...and more do not reenlist than reenlist

 

[FA_Q2]

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

I did five years, because I signed up for four years and then extended another year to get some additional training.

..yes I did about 7.8..I re-upped before my first was over...but, like I said, that's unusual ...and it's unusual for someone to do 1 more year...and more do not reenlist than reenlist

Really?

Year extensions were really common when I was in. A lot of people use them to get orders.

 

[harmonica]

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

I did five years, because I signed up for four years and then extended another year to get some additional training.

..yes I did about 7.8..I re-upped before my first was over...but, like I said, that's unusual ...and it's unusual for someone to do 1 more year...and more do not reenlist than reenlist

Really?

Year extensions were really common when I was in. A lot of people use them to get orders.

I was in the USMC...NO--they weren't common ..most people got out.

 

[Deleted member 73486]

I think that is a little optimistic. I suspect that the date is actually, right now.

US would lose a war with China fought in the Pacific, sources warn

'Eye-opening' Pentagon war games have revealed the US is vulnerable to China and that an attack from the superpower would lead to the US 'suffering capital losses', sources told The Times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Part of the problem is that the Navy, and actually the entire Military, suffers from multiple personality disorder. A decade ago it was decided that we had no more use for Frigates. Those small ships that were too small to really operate on their own and were not large enough to project force from the sea inland at all. So all the Frigates were decommissioned. Those little ships are valuable escorts however. They provide a ring of defense around any task force. By getting rid of them, you denude your defensive capability dramatically. It is one less defensive ring to deal with.

The Navy recently realized the enormity of their mistake. They don’t have any Frigates on the drawing board that they can start construction with, and starting from scratch would take years to even begin. So the Navy has just announced that they will be buying Frigates from Italy.

Navy's New Frigate Will Be Based on Italian Ship With 'Officer-Quality' Staterooms

The frigate is an important part of the Navy's plan to position itself for future fights.

www.military.com

Now the We’re Awesome crowd will scream murder about the awesome F-22 and F-35’s. But what they don’t understand is that quantity is a quality all it’s own. And the quality is able to be matched. In time, surpassed. But as I tried to point out during the early days of the Syrian Misadventure, the Russians and Chinese answer is missiles. A lot of them.

People downplay the Russian answer because it is different than our own. But let’s say you can intercept twenty missiles. What do you do if the enemy shoots 21 at you? Eventually the number of missiles inbound will overwhelm and swamp your defenses. Some are going to get through if the enemy shoots enough of them at you. Then your multiple billion dollar carrier is a new addition to the Bottom of the Ocean.

The only way to do it is sink the enemy ships before they sink yours. But here again, we have a disadvantage. Even Submarines have a limited number of shots on board. And every time they fire, they let the enemy know they are there, and even the stealthiest submarine can be located if the enemy is looking hard enough, and let’s be honest, they’ll be looking awfully hard won’t they?

Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

The Chinese army has more troops than we have ammunition. They have millions of troops, and infinite space to absorb attacks. They would be close to their lines of supply, and we would be far from ours. Our supply lines would be stretched to the breaking point in days, or a couple weeks maximum. It would take years to build the military we needed to return to the Status Quo Ante, and to defeat China? That would be virtually impossible.

Yes, we have nukes. And they have nukes, and we can turn the Chinese Cities into parking lots that glow in the dark. But what then? They’ll return the favor, turning many of our cities into similar scenes of destruction. We can’t turn the entire country of China into radioactive cinders. And even if we could we would be pariahs in the International World, alone without friends.

So what can we do? First, we can honestly admit that we are vulnerable. Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify it. Second, we can start a realistic examination of our Military from top to bottom. What do we need to do to protect our interests in the real world, instead of the easy one where we always win the war games? Third, we can start realistically examining our military technology. We are getting rid of hundreds of airplanes right now so we can afford a few more F-35’s. Yes, it may be an awesome plane, but if we have too few of them to do the job, what good is it to have a single awesome plane?

We got into this mess sacrificing old but good technology for awesome new. To save money. The Navy has no Fleet Interceptors to replace the decommissioned F-14’s. We got rid of the best Interceptor we ever had, because we could get everyone into one kind of plane, the F/A 18, and then declare it was obsolete so we could buy the F-35.

We abandoned the “unrealistic” scenario of having a Military that could fight two and a half wars. Now we have one that could not really fight even one war. Oh they can bomb the living crap out of some backwards Jihadi in the middle of the Desert. They can do that just fine, but they do not train to fight overwhelming odds, they don’t train and equip to fight enemies who are comparatively equal in training and equipment. They train to fight insurgents and religious nutters. Always with an overwhelming advantage of technology and information.

I doubt we could beat Iran in a stand up fight in all honesty. War Games have been denuded to the enemy doing exactly what you would want them to. If our ships can intercept twenty missiles, the notional enemy obligingly sends ten in the war game. If our troops are capable of fighting numerically inferior troops equipped with a hodgepodge of technology and weapons, the enemy obligingly puts underquipped and ill trained troops in the field, for our war games anyway.

We need to wake up, and we need to realize that just because we scream we’re number one, doesn’t mean we are. We need to realize that the enemy is unlikely to oblige your plans and stand stoically still and let you kill them. They are unlikely to surrender control of the air and sea without costing us a lot in the process, and even then it would be contested.

Wake up folks, or in ten years, we will see America’s military hugging the coast, afraid to venture out into the deep blue ocean because there be Dragons out there.

Ya, let's spend trillions more on the already bloated military complex so that we have the ability to blow up the world another 100x.

 

[JoeB131]

It will take us years to recover from the damage Obama did to the military.

Trump is making good headway but it will take time.

God forbid that dipshit Biden wins. He will continue the Obama destruction.

What damage, specifically?

Thanks.

 

[harmonica]

seven?? that's very odd......usually it's an even number..
?????are you lying ?

I did five years, because I signed up for four years and then extended another year to get some additional training.

..yes I did about 7.8..I re-upped before my first was over...but, like I said, that's unusual ...and it's unusual for someone to do 1 more year...and more do not reenlist than reenlist

Really?

Year extensions were really common when I was in. A lot of people use them to get orders.

....there are about 180,000 in the USMC...and they HOPE to see 6000 re-enlistments = NOT common

First-term Marines are slow to sign on for another enlistment

Fewer first-term Marines are signing on for a second re-enlistment compared with this time last year.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

 

[harmonica]

..what war for oil was that?

The one we've been fighting in the middle east since 2001.

Oh. Wait. you probably think it was about "Terror". Silly man.

hahahhahahah--you FKD up Joe
I KNEW you couldn't name the war----and you didn't !!!!!

 

[JoeB131]

hahahhahahah--you FKD up Joe
I KNEW you couldn't name the war----and you didn't !!!!!

Actually, I did, but you were too stupid to realize it.

Hey, did we ever find those WMD's?

 

[harmonica]

hahahhahahah--you FKD up Joe
I KNEW you couldn't name the war----and you didn't !!!!!

Actually, I did, but you were too stupid to realize it.

Hey, did we ever find those WMD's?

no--you did not...hahahhahaha
Iraq violated the cease fire by hindering inspectors
..do you not know what a cease fire means?

 

[harmonica]

hahahhahahah--you FKD up Joe
I KNEW you couldn't name the war----and you didn't !!!!!

Actually, I did, but you were too stupid to realize it.

Hey, did we ever find those WMD's?

also---we did not START that war/wars--saddam did