Please explain why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

[SAT]

Del, I was joking. The right constantly uses the word "confiscatory" when talking about taxes-their insistence on using these inflammatory words makes me laugh.

Ah, the powerful English skills of the left, a group that had trouble defining the word "is":

Confiscatory - : to seize as forfeited to the public treasury
2: to seize by or as if by authority

So basically, using the word to describe our tax system is merely descriptive (and accurate). If you're "inflamed" by its use, that's YOUR problem, not ours.

So you're an anarchist. What kind of anarchist, specifically?

Not unconstitutional? Please point to the enumerated power that gives the federal government the power to invest taxpayer money in the industries of the President's choosing.

Is this the question you mean?

 

[eflatminor]

1) Quoting Smith and then suggesting it means something that it clearly does not? Yes, that is called misrepresenting him. Deal with it.

This response seems to be faith based. Smith couldn't possibly say anything in favor of taxing the rich more....because I'm against that....

2) You're still refusing to answer my question. What's the problem?

Sorry. I will go back and look for what you mean.

3) Anyone who contributes to meddling politicians can have a massive political influence. That includes rich people, corporations, or unions...hell, even failing solar panel companies can get in on the cronyism.

Anyone can have influence on policy. The rich, because of campaign contributions, and now because of Citizens United, have an influence out of proportion to their numbers.

Get it?

God this is getting old. No, I don't say you misrepresented Smith because of the way you believe but because I have studied his writings and to anyone that has, it is crystal clear that he supported a flat, not a progressive tax. Your hatred for those that have succeeded in life and made themselves wealthy is obvious. I just wonder why you feel their influence is greater than unions. It isn't.

We could go back and fourth like this forever and I'm afraid you will always continue to feel that you know what is best for others and that the government should feel and act the same way. I will always believe that as long as someone does not hurt another nor take what doesn't belong to them, they should be free to conduct their lives as they see fit. I'm a Libertarian, you are a nanny stater...and never the twain shall meet. At least I can look in the mirror and say that I've never imposed my beliefs on another. You may look at the same mirror and take pride in what you and your central planner buddies have shoved down the throat of others...for their own good of course. Whatever gets you through the night I guess.

 

[SAT]

God this is getting old. No, I don't say you misrepresented Smith because of the way you believe but because I have studied his writings and to anyone that has, it is crystal clear that he supported a flat, not a progressive tax. Your hatred for those that have succeeded in life and made themselves wealthy is obvious. I just wonder why you feel their influence is greater than unions. It isn't.

Then I summed it up perfectly well in my previous post. Your response is faith based. Faith in Smith.

We could go back and fourth like this forever and I'm afraid you will always continue to feel that you know what is best for others and that the government should feel and act the same way. I will always believe that as long as someone does not hurt another nor take what doesn't belong to them, they should be free to conduct their lives as they see fit. I'm a Libertarian, you are a nanny stater...and never the twain shall meet. At least I can look in the mirror and say that I've never imposed my beliefs on another. You may look at the same mirror and take pride in what you and your central planner buddies have shoved down the throat of others...for their own good of course. Whatever gets you through the night I guess.

Oh, bullshit. You have a bunch of extremist ideas you think would be just great, would create an absolute meritocratic Utopia, and the only problem is that other people just aren't as great as you. Right.

 

[eflatminor]

God this is getting old. No, I don't say you misrepresented Smith because of the way you believe but because I have studied his writings and to anyone that has, it is crystal clear that he supported a flat, not a progressive tax. Your hatred for those that have succeeded in life and made themselves wealthy is obvious. I just wonder why you feel their influence is greater than unions. It isn't.

Then I summed it up perfectly well in my previous post. Your response is faith based. Faith in Smith.

We could go back and fourth like this forever and I'm afraid you will always continue to feel that you know what is best for others and that the government should feel and act the same way. I will always believe that as long as someone does not hurt another nor take what doesn't belong to them, they should be free to conduct their lives as they see fit. I'm a Libertarian, you are a nanny stater...and never the twain shall meet. At least I can look in the mirror and say that I've never imposed my beliefs on another. You may look at the same mirror and take pride in what you and your central planner buddies have shoved down the throat of others...for their own good of course. Whatever gets you through the night I guess.

Oh, bullshit. You have a bunch of extremist ideas you think would be just great, would create an absolute meritocratic Utopia, and the only problem is that other people just aren't as great as you. Right.

Follow the law of the land, live within our means...yea, that's so extreme.

 

[SAT]

You trying to make me puke?

That's not what I'm calling extreme.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh my God...you couldn't be that stupid.

And what exactly do you think entrepreneurs are responding to? Follow closely now...If someone doesn't build a business to supply that demand, products don't magically appear. Someone has to risk capital to start the business...which includes employees...jobs...as well as the enriching of scores of advisers, lawyers, accountants, not to mention governmental regulatory agencies.

To say demand creates jobs and not entrepreneurs is blatantly ridiculous. It is akin to saying Oxygen creates jobs because without Oxygen, there would be no customers.

Grow up.

Also, that whole "demand creates jobs" ignores how many times the public has no idea they want something - and thus is not demanding it - until it's been invented and marketed. Were people demanding iPods and iPhones before they appeared?

Stop with the logic and reason...you'll make their heads explode.

That was my nefarious plan.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

Define "support".

You want them to pay a lower tax rate than you. I'd say that's support.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Asshole. speaking only for myself of course. Just because I don't believe in demonizing the wealthy, or stealing from the wealthy doesn't mean I support the wealthy.

So taxing the wealthy is "stealing" while taxing the poor is just getting folks to pay their fair share.

Got it.

Make your own damn way in life and quit trying to grab for yourself what others have earned. You would be the coward and a jack ass to boot.

What on Earth are you even talking about? The issue here is how to fund a government. No one is grabbing anyone. Do we continue to lower taxes for the rich as their incomes soar and transfer that burden to the middle class while their incomes stagnate - or do we restore the tax on the wealthy to a slightly higher level which has already historically been shown to not be detrimental to the economy? Sorry but 39.6% clearly didn't stop the economy in the 90's, did it?

Can you make any arguments at all based on historical fact instead of vague ideologies?

 

[eflatminor]

Sorry but 39.6% clearly didn't stop the economy in the 90's, did it?

Tell you what. If we go back to 90's level of SPENDING, you can have a top marginal rate of 39.6%. Deal?

 

[Foxfyre]

I guess I really am a neanderthal because I think EVERYBODY who benefits from living in this country should be paying the same proportional amount of taxes as everybody else. And the only way to accomplish that is via a national sales tax OR a national flat tax that applies to everybody. The flat tax would not be at all regressive, however, while a sales tax would be.

As for spending, I want government rolled back to spend no more than what is absolutely necessary to do the NECESSARY functions of government.

By the way, the 'rich' were actually paying less under that 39+% rate than they do now because of all the credits and deductions and ways to shelter money that were taken away along with the lower tax rates.

5. What has happened to tax rates in America over the last several decades?

They’ve fallen. In the early 1960s, the highest marginal income tax rate was a stunning 91 percent. That top rate fell to 70 percent after the Kennedy-Johnson tax cuts and remained there until 1981. Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Although the federal tax rate fell by more than half, total tax receipts in the 1980s doubled from $517 billion in 1981 to $1,030 billion in 1990. The top tax rate rose slightly under George H. W. Bush and then moved to 39.6 percent under Bill Clinton. But under George W. Bush it fell again to 35 percent. So what’s striking is that, even as tax rates have fallen by half over the past quarter-century, taxes paid by the wealthy have increased. Lower tax rates have made the tax system more progressive, not less so. In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.
http://www.american.com/archive/200...zine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

 

[Uncensored2008]

I guess I really am a neanderthal because I think EVERYBODY who benefits from living in this country should be paying the same proportional amount of taxes as everybody else.

You sound just like Adam Smith. Our enlightened left have moved on to Marx, Keynes and Krugman.

And the only way to accomplish that is via a national sales tax OR a national flat tax that applies to everybody. The flat tax would not be at all regressive, however, while a sales tax would be.

If the sales tax exempted necessity items such as non-prepared foods, consumer energy, rent and such, it isn't regressive.

As for spending, I want government rolled back to spend no more than what is absolutely necessary to do the NECESSARY functions of government.

By the way, the 'rich' were actually paying less under that 39+% rate than they do now because of all the credits and deductions and ways to shelter money that were taken away along with the lower tax rates.

The left always skips over that part.

If you want the rich to pay more, cut the deductions and loopholes.

[

 

[Foxfyre]

I guess I really am a neanderthal because I think EVERYBODY who benefits from living in this country should be paying the same proportional amount of taxes as everybody else.

You sound just like Adam Smith. Our enlightened left have moved on to Marx, Keynes and Krugman.

And the only way to accomplish that is via a national sales tax OR a national flat tax that applies to everybody. The flat tax would not be at all regressive, however, while a sales tax would be.

If the sales tax exempted necessity items such as non-prepared foods, consumer energy, rent and such, it isn't regressive.

As for spending, I want government rolled back to spend no more than what is absolutely necessary to do the NECESSARY functions of government.

By the way, the 'rich' were actually paying less under that 39+% rate than they do now because of all the credits and deductions and ways to shelter money that were taken away along with the lower tax rates.

The left always skips over that part.

If you want the rich to pay more, cut the deductions and loopholes.

[

Do you really think our Leftist friends will even think about the illustrations I posted about how much more in taxes the rich are paying now under the lower rates than they were with the higher ones? They don't give a sh*t. They only care about supporting the President's all out efforts to create class envy to shore up his base.

Why they are willing to be his stooges in what is so disingenuous, even downright dishonest, is beyond me because I think several are well educated and intelligent people. But there's no accounting for blind partisanship or fuzzy thinking when it comes to the realities of any of these things I guess.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you really think our Leftist friends will even think about the illustrations I posted about how much more in taxes the rich are paying now under the lower rates than they were with the higher ones? They don't give a sh*t. They only care about supporting the President's all out efforts to create class envy to shore up his base.

I have been debating in another thread the concept that the left is purely based on envy. I think this is just another example of the envy factor in action. Further, it illustrates that party leaders are promoting this is a completely disengenuous way.

Why they are willing to be his stooges in what is so disingenuous, even downright dishonest, is beyond me because I think several are well educated and intelligent people. But there's no accounting for blind partisanship or fuzzy thinking when it comes to the realities of any of these things I guess.

As usual, I agree.

 

[SAT]

Obama proposed closing some of the loopholes...the right wing went into "it's class warfare" spastic freakout.

If the sales tax exempted necessity items such as non-prepared foods, consumer energy, rent and such, it isn't regressive.

And such....a bit vague. Please go on.

Do you really think our Leftist friends will even think about the illustrations I posted about how much more in taxes the rich are paying now under the lower rates than they were with the higher ones? They don't give a sh*t. They only care about supporting the President's all out efforts to create class envy to shore up his base.

A baseless, silly claim. This is an argument with a "leftist" that exists in your imagination.

 

[logical4u]

Republicans are driven by ideology and not any sense of reality. When rigid concepts, rather than flexible thought guide you, there is always the appearance of misplaced values. Consider the ten Pavlovian dogs - no criticism of dogs meant - who raised their hands like puppets over the 10% tax question during the debate and you must realize no thinking was involved. Allow me to list an old post with a slight edit on their thinking. The task to make republicans thinking citizens is similar to convincing a child to eat healthy. Ideas are welcome.

This is a list of concepts and ideas that arrange the way a republican thinks about a number of topics. The list includes items that are positive and negative and often it is the degree to which something is believed or used that determines the way they understand any of the issues that face us as Americans. They serve as categories that allow easy classification without thinking or reasoning. If they thought or reasoned they would be liberals.

You believe taxes are bad
You believe a government that taxes is bad
You believe Unions are bad
You believe giving tax cuts to those who ship jobs overseas is good
You believe people on welfare are cheaters
You believe welfare is bad
You believe CEOs making 100 million are getting paid fairly
You believe minimum wage is too much
You believe millions of dollars of compensation for the rich is good
You believe helping the poor is bad
You believe government contracts for the rich are good
You believe anyone without a job isn't looking
You support small business but not the Small Business Administration
You support small business but give dividend relief to the large corporations
You support small business but tax breaks go to the top 3%
You support small business but you shop at Walmart
You support small business but you buy foreign products
Government is a bad thing but the military industrial complex is a good thing
Regulation is bad but bailing out failed corporations is good
You talk Jesus and the power of religion but vote more corporate power
You talk family values but vote more corporate power
You talk less government but support more corporate power
You talk honesty but support more corporate power
You believe in a domino theory of actions
You believe in the slippery slope of morals
You believe the liberalism that founded American democracy is now wrong
You protest against so called cultural elitism not corporate greed
You protest against abortion not lack of education and funding
You protest against evolution not the inequality of wages
You protest against atheism not poor living conditions
You have to believe a few cells is a person but bombing living people is fine
A few cells is a person but executions are fine
A few cells is a person but executing retarded people is fine
A few cells is a person but supporting medical research that could save lives is bad
A few cells is a person but the child that dies every minute doesn't matter
A few cells is a person but food supports are bad
A few cells is a person but sex education about it is bad
A few cells is a person but condoms are bad
We invaded Iraq because it was a threat to us
We invaded Iraq because they didn't follow UN resolution 1441
We invaded Iraq because they didn't allow UN inspectors
We invaded Iraq because Saddam was a bad man
We invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people
We invaded Iraq to form a democracy in the middle east
You believe education is good but don't support it
You believe education is a good thing but we don't need public schools
You believe education is a good thing so long as they teach your values and religion
You say 'leave no child behind' but make sure the rich get further ahead
You impose 'No Child' laws but let the states pay for it
You say 'compassionate' but cut back support for food for children
You say 'compassionate' but withdraw aid for after school programs
You say 'compassionate' but weaken international laws that protect children
You believe it's ok to be armed but one ounce of pot is a jail sentence
You believe it's ok to be armed but medical marijuana is bad
You believe it's ok to be armed but song lyrics should be banned
You believe it's ok to be armed and those who aren't are out of touch with reality
You believe it is ok that women do not have the same rights as men
You believe women should be quiet and in the background
You believe women are ok but you hate Hilary
You support women but close the Office for Women's Initiatives
You support women but remove medically accurate information from the web
You believe tariffs are bad unless you are a corporate farmer
You believe tariffs are bad unless it helps win votes
You believe free trade is fine so long as it doesn't affect your corporate contributors
You believe affirmative action is bad but connections are ok
You believe global warming is myth
You believe pollution is not an issue
You believe the environment will take care of itself
You believe we must roll back the New Deal
You believe interfering in the lives of gays is proper
You believe interfering in the lives of those who choose to die is proper
You believe government is bad unless it enforces your values
You believe government is bad unless it is bails out corporations
You believe government is bad unless it builds more prisons
You believe creating laws that impose on personal freedoms is good
You believe that what another citizen is doing in their bedroom is your concern
You believe if it is not something you believe in then it is wrong
You believe you support the military
You believe you support the military while you cut back their benefits
You believe you support the military while you close VA hospitals
You believe you support the military while you send them to war with no plan
You believe you support the military while your candidates never served
You believe creationism is good science
You believe Evolution is just a theory
You believe media is liberal
You believe Limbaugh is right on
You believe Hannity is right on
You believe Coulter is right on
You believe Savage is right on
You believe Ingram is right on
You believe the WSJ editorial page is right on
You believe Fox is fair and balanced
You believe media is liberal
You believe Bush is a common man even though he has never worked nor served
You believe Cheney is a common man even with a 55 million paycheck
You believe the republicans represent the common man while the corporations support them
You believe liberal or elitist is bad
You believe some people are bad because of the coffee they drink
You believe some people are bad because they read
You believe some people are bad because they have traveled
You believe people are bad because of the car they drive
You believe people are bad because they honor dissent in America
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but culture that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but religion that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but political affiliation that defines us
You must believe as you believe in nothing else that your opponent's ideas are bad
You must never concede that your opponent has a valid point you must repeat that
You must finally raise your partisanship to an ideology that you believe as a child believes
You believe you do not reason
You believe you do not think
You believe

]The scariest thing about the new right is the power it has on many. They do not question the assumptions it makes, they start at the top of this list and they find there truths that should not be questioned. An irony of this is the pieces by themselves are not always negative it is rather the combination of all working together that are a threat to our individual and economic freedoms.

Just because I don't want to answer each false charge:
what do you believe?
What is worth fighting for to the point of your life?
Who is trying to eliminate the "Lord" from American life (hint: it isn't the conservatives), morals?
What facts do you have that socialism works?
How much wealth do you get to take off of people that earned it? 10%, 50%, 80%, and who will try to achieve when they see those that work hard, punished, and their wealth, stolen?

Funny, you contradict yourself through out the above statements. So what is the great plan of the left/socialist/communists/homosexual activists/islam extremists/progressives/liberals? I know step one: rob everyone that has wealth, and promote a tryranical gov't. Got that. Now what do you do? The "producers" are in prison, or dead. The wealth is gone. The educators that don't bow to the tyrant are gone. You have a bunch of dependent people that cannot/will not think for themselves. Now what is your plan?

 

[SAT]

Funny, you contradict yourself through out the above statements. So what is the great plan of the left/socialist/communists/homosexual activists/islam extremists/progressives/liberals? I know step one: rob everyone that has wealth, and promote a tryranical gov't. Got that. Now what do you do? The "producers" are in prison, or dead. The wealth is gone. The educators that don't bow to the tyrant are gone. You have a bunch of dependent people that cannot/will not think for themselves. Now what is your plan?

 

[logical4u]

Funny, you contradict yourself through out the above statements. So what is the great plan of the left/socialist/communists/homosexual activists/islam extremists/progressives/liberals? I know step one: rob everyone that has wealth, and promote a tryranical gov't. Got that. Now what do you do? The "producers" are in prison, or dead. The wealth is gone. The educators that don't bow to the tyrant are gone. You have a bunch of dependent people that cannot/will not think for themselves. Now what is your plan?

What's the matter, didn't you think past the DESTRUCTION??

 

[initforme]

Let the wealthy have theirs. I have no problem with that. But they have zero right to ask me to take less on my SS every month since I have paid into it. But there are those on the right that dont believe in SS for people like me. They are not my fellow americans. Does that sound like class warfare? Cuz it is alive and well.

 

[logical4u]

Let the wealthy have theirs. I have no problem with that. But they have zero right to ask me to take less on my SS every month since I have paid into it. But there are those on the right that dont believe in SS for people like me. They are not my fellow americans. Does that sound like class warfare? Cuz it is alive and well.

You are right. The problem is that we have too many people that are allowed to collect that have NOT paid into the "pool" (disability that is faked, medicaid for children that have parents that are not married/deadbeat parents, medicare for people that have not paid into the system. I think that is where you hear the hostility (not towards those that worked for decades, paid their taxes, and retired).

The people that paid into Social Security only have that 7% that they put in at risk (even though their employer matched that). Those of us in our 40s, and 50s are being threatened with not being able to collect any of that (if we make TOO much, with them inflating the dollar), and on top of that the libs are now trying to figure out how to steal our 401Ks (we were told not to rely on the gov't, but to save on our own, and now the libs want to take that and give it to people that have lived like the proverbial grasshopper). It looks like we will all starve if we have a hard winter. The grasshoppers have invaded the ants homes, and the ants have been punished into not producing or have left.

 

[Avatar4321]

Please explain Americans why you Republicans support the wealthy over your own middle class?

I could never understand why the misguided mouthpieces in the Republican Party continue to make excuses for the top 1% wealthiest while dissing their own in the middle class. Cowards and Traitors, the bunch of ya. While the middle class is trying to unite against the wealthiest, some in the middle class are playing the Benedict Arnold role - all in the name of the Grand Ol' Party.

Shameless Cowards - the lot of you

-----

Define "support".

You want them to pay a lower tax rate than you. I'd say that's support.

So now wanting everyone to pay the same tax rate means we want the wealthy to pay less than us...

someone failied logic 105.