Poland prepares plans to invade Belarus

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

silver cat makes pompous statements without support.

 

[Silver Cat]

I don't think it can be put in those terms. Russia may as well have "embraced Western culture". American films, Western music, McDonalds (even if they changed the name), capitalism, etc.

A lot of people in Russia would also like freedom of speech and democracy, which did exist for a while after the fall of Communism. There isn't much of a choice in that regard now.

If they had continued on the path of democracy, it would have brought economic benefits, and I suppose Russia could have after some time even gained some kind of relationship with the EU, like Norway, and a close partnership with NATO. Putin did not want that though. Russia was a NATO partner before, btw, they did some joint exercises.

But they are continuing the "path of democracy". They've invaded Ukraine as the USA invaded Sebia and Iraq.

You know, there are different conceptions and definitions for freedom.
The gamification of a war, unleashed power, uncontrollable will... In some way, the war is returning to the childhood. And they enjoy it.

In English:

 

[xyz]

But they are continuing the "path of democracy". They've invaded Ukraine as the USA invaded Sebia and Iraq.

You know, there are different conceptions and definitions for freedom.
The gamification of a war, unleashed power, uncontrollable will... In some way, the war is returning to the childhood. And they enjoy it.

In English:

The US did not invade Serbia.

The Iraq War was a crime. Just as bad as what is happening in Ukraine in human costs. Bush should be in jail.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

silver cat dribbles along.

If Poland goes to war, Russia gets dragged in, NATO jumpes on Russia, and the Rus disappear forever while the West remains.

 

[beagle9]

Again, Putinhead, it is not a war between Russia and Ukraine.

Oh really...

When Russia invaded Ukraine, ignoring all international laws and treaties, it effectively declared war on the civilized war,

What does this even mean ? It declared war on Ukraine, making it a war between Russia and Ukraine. Duh

and that's why so many countries support Ukraine and nearly no countries support Russia. These laws and treaties form the fabric of civilization, and following these laws and abiding by these treaties is what makes peace and trade possible, not by appeasing imperialist aggressions as you propose.

No one supposed anything, and you do know that the war had been going on since 2014 right ? On the treaty thing I agree, but Russia and it's surrounding territories or outer defensive layers or buffer zones so to speak are in play also.

Ukraine didn't turn to the west because of "western infiltration"

Then why are we helping it against it's neighbors aggression, otherwise if we don't have an allie situated within the whole of the Ukraine government, and this being the reason why it is calling on us to help it ?

You saw the gatherings with Zelensky up on the teleprompter asking us to help them, and then the praising of his nation's friendship with us.

Putin sees that as a cultural infiltration by us within the Ukraine culture wouldn't you say ??

but for the same reason that all the Warsaw pact states clamored to join NATO and the EU, because freedom, democracy and prosperity is a better way of life than living under a brutal Russian dictatorship.

Agree. But how can we see one nation as being this way (brutal), but because of American interest and economic trade, we tend to give a pass to other's that are just as brutal ?

"Agree that it best Russia leave Ukraine, but where will that leave Russia on the world stage in the aftermath ? They will be a pariah, an untrusted member of the global community, a nation with an extreme chip on it's shoulder, a nuclear power still, a major gas and oil producer, a nation determined to remain a super power even more so than ever before."

Russia already is a pariah state and has no place in the global community because it has rejected all its laws, all its treaties and all its norms of civilized behavior, and it will remain so until it convincingly abandons all its imperialist ambitions.

Russia is not a superpower; it has a mediocre military and cannot use its nuclear weapons without destroying itself.

Your description of what Russia will become if it is forced out of Ukraine, appeaser, is a perfect description of what it has been ever since Putin came to power, and the clear evidence that appeasing Russia will not bring peace, is that the West has been appeasing Putin, as it invaded Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine, and each failure to take a stand against Russian aggression has led to further aggressions.

No one was trying to destroy Russia before it invaded Ukraine, Putinhead,

Show where I said someone was trying to destroy Russia before it invaded Ukraine or stop your damned lying already. Appeasing Russia isn't the issue, but our government showing weakness has caused further aggression, otherwise by losing respect in the world, these countries are sitting back scratching their heads on why they had listen to our lead for so long now to begin with.

and it is clear no one has an interest in attacking Russia if it leaves Ukraine, but it will have to remain isolated from the rest of the world until it convincingly abandons its imperialist ambitions, and that is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

I don't think anyone has an interest in directly attacking Russia, otherwise if it doesn't leave Ukraine, because that would turn ugly for the world I would imagine.

Now the helping of Ukraine will be on going I guess, but who knows where all this craziness is going anymore ? I know I don't..

 

[skye]

Poland to invade Belarus?

Don't make me laugh, plea zzzze

 

[Unkotare]

...the most modern military in the world ...

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Poland to invade Belarus?

Don't make me laugh, plea zzzze

You as an European should know better. The Poles have wanted west Belarus back ever since WWII. With Russia so greatly weakened by the invasion of Ukraine and Poland so greatly rearmed and modernized, the Belarus are shaking in their boots.

 

[skye]

You as an European should know better. The Poles have wanted west Belarus back ever since WWII. With Russia so greatly weakened by the invasion of Ukraine and Poland so greatly rearmed and modernized, the Belarus are shaking in their boots.

LOL

Poland will NOT invade Belarus ....if it knows what good for them.....may be they are greedy....hopefully they are not stupid.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Latvia and Lithuania want their share as well.

Putin will be dead by year's end: either his neurosyphlis will finish him or the generals will.

 

[Kruska]

Obviously, Ukraine and its allies underestimate the Russian defenses, both the huge and dense minefields and Russia's plan to defend them, but the minefields are finite and will eventually be cleared and all these months of blowing up Russian supply depots and troop concentrations far behind the front line will leave the Russian front lines weakened and ready to retreat just as they were last year.

To underestimate an enemy in wartime is termed - massive failure. And a very badly planed and executed offensive is termed a failure due to ignorance.
See Hitlers Kursk offensive, or Putin's initial offensive in February 2022.

You seem to have a bit of an antiquated view of mines - aka WW2.

Are you ware that anti-personal mines or anti-vehicle mines do not need to be buried? As such the same way they got there in the first place, they can be redistributed. Naturally classic buried contact mines make a detection and destruction more difficult (therefore cluster ammunition is also being used to clear existing conventional mine-fields) and are difficult to replace. However today's modern mines (since the Vietnam war) have proximity, vibration/sound and infra-red igniters. Some are even able to literally hop towards a target. As such in modern warfare - they can be placed into action at any time - especially during an opponents offensive action, and especially upon an area termed to be cleared.

Buried contact mines therefore are factually only used in front of a static defense perimeter, or e.g. roads, bridges leading in and out. Modern mines only start to come in during an attack - therefore they can't be cleared beforehand.

Below is a German test-weapon - a spring-hop-mine-dispenser (not cluster ammo) from the 80's - today they are distributed via enclosed dispensers or via artillery.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Oh really...


What does this even mean ? It declared war on Ukraine, making it a war between Russia and Ukraine. Duh


No one supposed anything, and you do know that the war had been going on since 2014 right ? On the treaty thing I agree, but Russia and it's surrounding territories or outer defensive layers or buffer zones so to speak are in play also.


Then why are we helping it against it's neighbors aggression, otherwise if we don't have an allie situated within the whole of the Ukraine government, and this being the reason why it is calling on us to help it ?

You saw the gatherings with Zelensky up on the teleprompter asking us to help them, and then the praising of his nation's friendship with us.

Putin sees that as a cultural infiltration by us within the Ukraine culture wouldn't you say ??


Agree. But how can we see one nation as being this way (brutal), but because of American interest and economic trade, we tend to give a pass to other's that are just as brutal ?


Show where I said someone was trying to destroy Russia before it invaded Ukraine or stop your damned lying already. Appeasing Russia isn't the issue, but our government showing weakness has caused further aggression, otherwise by losing respect in the world, these countries are sitting back scratching their heads on why they had listen to our lead for so long now to begin with.


I don't think anyone has an interest in directly attacking Russia, otherwise if it doesn't leave Ukraine, because that would turn ugly for the world I would imagine.

Now the helping of Ukraine will be on going I guess, but who knows where all this craziness is going anymore ? I know I don't..

Russia never declared war on Ukraine, and Russians have been sent to prison for even calling the military operations there a war. Russia has been quite explicit in stating that what it is doing in Ukraine is not a war but a "special military operation," whatever that means. The point here is that there is no rational basis for calling the fighting in Ukraine just a war between Russia and Ukraine.

I understand it is important to you to try to reduce what is happening in Ukraine is just a war between Russia and Ukraine, in order to try to build an argument for ending aid to Ukraine, but there is no doubt in the West that this invasion is part of Putin's plan to try to retake all the land Russia "lost" with the dissolution of the USSR, and in that context, it is clearly in America's interests as a member of NATO to help the Ukrainians stop Russia in Ukraine rather than having American troops face Russian troops across Ukraine's western border.

 

[toomuchtime_]

To underestimate an enemy in wartime is termed - massive failure. And a very badly planed and executed offensive is termed a failure due to ignorance.
See Hitlers Kursk offensive, or Putin's initial offensive in February 2022.

You seem to have a bit of an antiquated view of mines - aka WW2.

Are you ware that anti-personal mines or anti-vehicle mines do not need to be buried? As such the same way they got there in the first place, they can be redistributed. Naturally classic buried contact mines make a detection and destruction more difficult (therefore cluster ammunition is also being used to clear existing conventional mine-fields) and are difficult to replace. However today's modern mines (since the Vietnam war) have proximity, vibration/sound and infra-red igniters. Some are even able to literally hop towards a target. As such in modern warfare - they can be placed into action at any time - especially during an opponents offensive action, and especially upon an area termed to be cleared.

Buried contact mines therefore are factually only used in front of a static defense perimeter, or e.g. roads, bridges leading in and out. Modern mines only start to come in during an attack - therefore they can't be cleared beforehand.

Below is a German test-weapon - a spring-hop-mine-dispenser (not cluster ammo) from the 80's - today they are distributed via enclosed dispensers or via artillery.

View attachment 814641

The point of your post would seem to be to suggest Russian minefields are impenetrable, which is foolisn.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Why does beagle9 want Russia to retake all of the countries to the west that it added after WWII?

 

[luiza]

Probably Toomuchbooze and Horsey should stick to baseball because they cetainly have no idea what is happening in Khazaria , or, new Russia as it is soon to become . Just to let you know that the Odessa region is now under colossal attack and is doubtless being softened in front of the planned Russian advance .And BTW , at this point in time there is no answer to Russian mines and the ways they use them to obliterate the Kyiv Nazi force which is being decimated by them . Almost as though they have a collective death wish, doubtless inspired by the coke snorting Midget regularly telling every serving person that they will fight to the last person -- probably about wednesday fortnight at the present rate they are being sacrificed .

 

[Kruska]

The point of your post would seem to be to suggest Russian minefields are impenetrable, which is foolisn.

Where did I state that? whatever does not fit into your mindset seems non comprehensible to you.

Same goes for your idiotic Western MSM propaganda -"that this invasion is part of Putin's plan to try to retake all the land Russia "lost" with the dissolution of the USSR"
Putin became President in 2000, aka acting President of the Russian Federation in 1999.

So do tell me - which countries (former USSR republics) has Putin aka the Russian Federation since 2000 retaken/repossessed? - Even after the RF had entered Georgia due to Georgia having attacked separatist regions - the Russian military was withdrawn, and Georgia until today is as independent as before.

Taking oil/gas and mineral resources into account and Geo-strategic reasons/views - then please do explain why sovereign countries such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan still exist?? Countries that the USA and NATO would never have been able to support militarily - against "Russian Aggression" - and that would immediately have economically significantly contributed towards the Russian Federation.

Hell - if Putin would offer Iran 50% of Turkmenistan - the Iranians would raise their flag there, before the first Russian tank even started it's engine.

I have never claimed that Putin did not attack Ukraine on Feb. 2022, nor that he had ordered the occupation of the Crimea in 2014. Even Putin has never disputed this. This present war and it's initiation in 2014 is entirely and only about Russia denying NATO to set up shop in Ukraine. - nothing less, nothing more.

The longer this war however takes - thanks to NATO, the more time Putin will have to "arrange" demographics, that will secure a populist vote of occupied territories to vote for joining the Russian federation.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Putin wants to create the boundaries of the old empire and the USSR.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Where did I state that? whatever does not fit into your mindset seems non comprehensible to you.

Same goes for your idiotic Western MSM propaganda -"that this invasion is part of Putin's plan to try to retake all the land Russia "lost" with the dissolution of the USSR"
Putin became President in 2000, aka acting President of the Russian Federation in 1999.

So do tell me - which countries (former USSR republics) has Putin aka the Russian Federation since 2000 retaken/repossessed? - Even after the RF had entered Georgia due to Georgia having attacked separatist regions - the Russian military was withdrawn, and Georgia until today is as independent as before.

Taking oil/gas and mineral resources into account and Geo-strategic reasons/views - then please do explain why sovereign countries such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan still exist?? Countries that the USA and NATO would never have been able to support militarily - against "Russian Aggression" - and that would immediately have economically significantly contributed towards the Russian Federation.

Hell - if Putin would offer Iran 50% of Turkmenistan - the Iranians would raise their flag there, before the first Russian tank even started it's engine.

I have never claimed that Putin did not attack Ukraine on Feb. 2022, nor that he had ordered the occupation of the Crimea in 2014. Even Putin has never disputed this. This present war and it's initiation in 2014 is entirely and only about Russia denying NATO to set up shop in Ukraine. - nothing less, nothing more.

The longer this war however takes - thanks to NATO, the more time Putin will have to "arrange" demographics, that will secure a populist vote of occupied territories to vote for joining the Russian federation.

I'm sure you feel better after taking a big dump like that, but to get back to what we were talking about, in response to my statement that the AFU was only be slowed down by Russian minefields, you put up a post suggesting that the minefields could be replaced indefinitely from the air even as the Ukrainians were clearing them, suggesting they were impenetrable. (post #51)

As to the rest of your meandering post, the whole world has rejected Putin's bullshit about invading Ukraine to protect itself against NATO and has demanded Russia leave Ukraine. If Ukraine had allowed Putin to have de facto control over Ukraine, he would never have invaded, and before Putin dispelled the myth that Russia was still as powerful as the USSR had been with his failed invasion of Ukraine, Putin managed to maintain at least partial control over the central Asian countries you listed with through fear that if they opposed Putin, they would suffer the same fate as Chechnya or Georgia or Ukraine, but with Russian forces in Ukraine slowly retreating back to Russian, so too is fear of Russian reprisals for defying Putin among the central Asian countries and Putin's dreams of enlarging his empire, or even of maintaining it are no longer being taken seriously.

Of course, you can still hope Trump will become President and rescue Putin's dreams of empire.

 

[Kruska]

...., in response to my statement that the AFU was only be slowed down by Russian minefields, you put up a post suggesting that the minefields could be replaced indefinitely from the air even as the Ukrainians were clearing them, suggesting they were impenetrable. (post #51)

Deployed via aviation and via artillery - mainly rocket artillery, right down to setting by hand - yes absolutely, and not before an attack but during an attack.
A conventional minefield only slows down an offensive and creates additional opportunities for the defender to eliminate bogged down objects - exactly as to what is presently happening. Again who stated that such a defense is impenetrable? - only you.

....., the whole world has rejected Putin's bullshit about invading Ukraine to protect itself against NATO and has demanded Russia leave Ukraine.

The whole world? - more then 40 countries, especially the powerful and big ones, and military/economic Western-Block-free, nations like China, India, Brazil, etc. etc. have clearly stated that NATO's relentless Eastward- Expansion is the cause for this war - independent of demanding peaceful negotiations to end this war. As long as NATO does not abstain from it's Eastward expansion - none of these will demand that Russia withdraws it's troops. (never-mind those obligatory and halfhearted statements - aka diplomacy).

If Ukraine had allowed Putin to have de facto control over Ukraine, he would never have invaded,

Off course he would have - since he and everyone else (aside from you) knows that NATO can't be trusted since 1990, neither could an absolute pro Russian Ukraine government be guaranteed. As such either "solid" assurances by NATO (no such thing in politics) - or far better and feasible, cut down Ukraine to 30% of it's territory and then let NATO have it.

and before Putin dispelled the myth that Russia was still as powerful as the USSR had been with his failed invasion of Ukraine,

Oh Jesus, dude - EVERYONE with a solid military background (aside from you) - was 100% aware that Russia isn't able to conduct any major military operation exceeding 80,000 men. Putin simply tried to Bluff - to intimidate NATO and Ukraine to give in to demands, a) replacing the Ukraine government, b) to acquit NATO towards stalling it's Eastward Expansion, c) to prevent NATO from beefing up the UAF till 2025 - so that they could then militarily reoccupy Crimea and Donbas/Luhansk.

Putin managed to maintain at least partial control over the central Asian countries you listed with through fear that if they opposed Putin, they would suffer the same fate as Chechnya or Georgia or Ukraine,

Nonsense - Both Russia and China so far have been able to sabotage and prevent numerous attempts by the CIA and their friends to subvert the people and government of those countries. Therefore both are not pressed into going to war with these countries. Chechnya was NEVER a UN recognized sovereign state - but always a Republic within the Russian Federation, (it's called internal issues of the Russian Federation) and Georgia's fate lies with their own separatists - since the Russian forces all pulled out, AFTER Georgia had militarily attacked separatists "officially" aligned with Russia.

It's a fact that US/NATO had encouraged Georgia to attack it's separatist regions - and then let them bleed. Just as now US/NATO is encouraging Taiwan to be their dummies.

Of course, you can still hope Trump will become President and rescue Putin's dreams of empire.

Well for the sake of especially China and also Russia - I honestly do hope for a Trump win - even though personally I can't stand this absolute incapable human scumbag.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Deployed via aviation and via artillery - mainly rocket artillery, right down to setting by hand - yes absolutely, and not before an attack but during an attack.
A conventional minefield only slows down an offensive and creates additional opportunities for the defender to eliminate bogged down objects - exactly as to what is presently happening. Again who stated that such a defense is impenetrable? - only you.

The whole world? - more then 40 countries, especially the powerful and big ones, and military/economic Western-Block-free, nations like China, India, Brazil, etc. etc. have clearly stated that NATO's relentless Eastward- Expansion is the cause for this war - independent of demanding peaceful negotiations to end this war. As long as NATO does not abstain from it's Eastward expansion - none of these will demand that Russia withdraws it's troops. (never-mind those obligatory and halfhearted statements - aka diplomacy).

Off course he would have - since he and everyone else (aside from you) knows that NATO can't be trusted since 1990, neither could an absolute pro Russian Ukraine government be guaranteed. As such either "solid" assurances by NATO (no such thing in politics) - or far better and feasible, cut down Ukraine to 30% of it's territory and then let NATO have it.

Oh Jesus, dude - EVERYONE with a solid military background (aside from you) - was 100% aware that Russia isn't able to conduct any major military operation exceeding 80,000 men. Putin simply tried to Bluff - to intimidate NATO and Ukraine to give in to demands, a) replacing the Ukraine government, b) to acquit NATO towards stalling it's Eastward Expansion, c) to prevent NATO from beefing up the UAF till 2025 - so that they could then militarily reoccupy Crimea and Donbas/Luhansk.

Nonsense - Both Russia and China so far have been able to sabotage and prevent numerous attempts by the CIA and their friends to subvert the people and government of those countries. Therefore both are not pressed into going to war with these countries. Chechnya was NEVER a UN recognized sovereign state - but always a Republic within the Russian Federation, (it's called internal issues of the Russian Federation) and Georgia's fate lies with their own separatists - since the Russian forces all pulled out, AFTER Georgia had militarily attacked separatists "officially" aligned with Russia.

It's a fact that US/NATO had encouraged Georgia to attack it's separatist regions - and then let them bleed. Just as now US/NATO is encouraging Taiwan to be their dummies.

Well for the sake of especially China and also Russia - I honestly do hope for a Trump win - even though personally I can't stand this absolute incapable human scumbag.

Well, there you go, finally agreeing with me that the war is the result of Russian imperialist ambitions, and trying to justify them with bizarre claims about NATO posing a threat to Russian security when it only poses a threat to Russian imperialism.

When Putin demands, is even willing to go to war, to stop nations from joining NATO, he is asserting Russian control over the governments of neighboring nations, and that is imperialism, and there is no rational scenario to support your bizarre claims that NATO was a security threat to Russia. So we both agree that the cause of this war, which Putin insists is not a war, is Russian imperialism.