Political Cartoon

[hadit]

Tell me you’re justifying genocide without telling me you’re justifying genocide

Sounds like you're trying to ignore what your tribe did.

 

[Hellbilly]

Sounds like you're trying to ignore what your tribe did.

Not at all. We did fight against other tribes. Some tribes more than others.
The difference between your people and mine is your people were supposed to be civilised. Mine were savages as per your Declaration of Independence.
You civilised people did things (including to your own people) that we never thought of, and you defend these things.

 

[hadit]

Not at all. We did fight against other tribes. Some tribes more than others.
The difference between your people and mine is your people were supposed to be civilised. Mine were savages as per your Declaration of Independence.
You civilised people did things (including to your own people) that we never thought of, and you defend these things.

I'm not defending anything, just pointing out that history doesn't start when something bad is done to you. At its heart, mankind is alike, very tribal, and IMO, if you go back far enough, every people group in history has tried to dominate another and take what they wanted. In the process, they often seized prime land and enslaved the conquered. Events do not happen in a vacuum.

 

[Hellbilly]

I'm not defending anything, just pointing out that history doesn't start when something bad is done to you. At its heart, mankind is alike, very tribal, and IMO, if you go back far enough, every people group in history has tried to dominate another and take what they wanted. In the process, they often seized prime land and enslaved the conquered. Events do not happen in a vacuum.

Dude. I’ve heard this argument 100’s of times. It’s an attempt to justify genocide. It’s also bullshit.

 

[hadit]

Dude. I’ve heard this argument 100’s of times. It’s an attempt to justify genocide. It’s also bullshit.

Oh, so your tribe did NOT in fact try to conquer any others? That's interesting and I'd be interested in knowing how you know that.

Now, you can claim mindreading powers, but you don't really have them. There's no justifying genocide going on, because two wrongs don't make a right. That doesn't, however, absolve your tribe from responsibility for the things it's done.

 

[Hellbilly]

Oh, so your tribe did NOT in fact try to conquer any others? That's interesting and I'd be interested in knowing how you know that.

Now, you can claim mindreading powers, but you don't really have them. There's no justifying genocide going on, because two wrongs don't make a right. That doesn't, however, absolve your tribe from responsibility for the things it's done.

My people did war with other tribes. What we did not do is burn women and children to death and call it a holiday. We did not steal children and force them to act a certain way. We did not strip these children of their dignity and language. We did not cram Christianity down children’s throats and torture them. That was all you.
The only reason you brought up what my ancestors did is to justify what yours did.

 

[hadit]

My people did war with other tribes. What we did not do is burn women and children to death and call it a holiday. We did not steal children and force them to act a certain way. We did not strip these children of their dignity and language. We did not cram Christianity down children’s throats and torture them. That was all you.
The only reason you brought up what my ancestors did is to justify what yours did.

And you're sure of this, how? The native American tribes were pretty creative when it came to mistreating the people they conquered. And, no, any justification is in your own mind. What the Europeans did was shameful, fairly standard for their day, but extremely shameful. To pretend that somehow history only started when they came on the scene, however, is specious.

 

[Hellbilly]

And you're sure of this, how?

I know the history of my people.

 

[hadit]

I know the history of my people.

Then why are you not willing to condemn some of the things they did? I've condemned as shameful the things Europeans did, you've just said, they "did war with other tribes". Nothing shameful, right? Just a morally justified war, no land grabs, no enslavement, just a battle then everyone going back home to face another day?

 

[Hellbilly]

Then why are you not willing to condemn some of the things they did?

Do you condemn what Americans did?
Can you acknowledge that you currently live on stolen land?

 

[hadit]

Do you condemn what Americans did?
Can you acknowledge that you currently live on stolen land?

Of course, I condemn what the European settlers did when they abrogated treaties and pushed the natives off the land. Do you condemn what your tribe did when they did the same? All land is stolen by someone at this time in human history, except maybe places where no one wants or is able to live.

 

[Hellbilly]

Of course, I condemn what the European settlers did when they abrogated treaties and pushed the natives off the land. Do you condemn what your tribe did when they did the same? All land is stolen by someone at this time in human history, except maybe places where no one wants or is able to live.

I knew you couldn’t do it.

 

[hadit]

I knew you couldn’t do it.

"Of course, I condemn what the European settlers did". Guess you didn't read that part.

 

[Hellbilly]

"Of course, I condemn what the European settlers did". Guess you didn't read that part.

Do you condemn what Americans did to us after they defeated the Europeans?
Do you condemn acts by the American government and people on us?
Do you currently listen live on stolen land?

 

[hadit]

Do you condemn what Americans did to us after they defeated the Europeans?
Do you condemn acts by the American government and people on us?
Do you currently listen live on stolen land?

I've already condemned specific actions, and I've already stated that all desirable land has been stolen and re-stolen throughout history. Why are you having a hard time with that? I also know that I didn't steal any land, and an attempt to take what I have from me is stealing it yet again. If you want the land to be settled by its rightful owners only and you have integrity, you will also go to all the existing tribes and settle who has actual ownership of the land, because just putting you back on it doesn't resolve your outstanding debt of theft from another tribe. It needs to go back to the very first settlers who came across the Bering Strait land bridge that were displaced by those who came after. All you interlopers need to get off their land.

See, I know what you want. You want to go back to when YOUR tribe owned the land, but not back to when you kicked another tribe off it. That's not integrity.

 

[Hellbilly]

I've already condemned specific actions, and I've already stated that all desirable land has been stolen and re-stolen throughout history. Why are you having a hard time with that? I also know that I didn't steal any land, and an attempt to take what I have from me is stealing it yet again. If you want the land to be settled by its rightful owners only and you have integrity, you will also go to all the existing tribes and settle who has actual ownership of the land, because just putting you back on it doesn't resolve your outstanding debt of theft from another tribe. It needs to go back to the very first settlers who came across the Bering Strait land bridge that were displaced by those who came after. All you interlopers need to get off their land.

See, I know what you want. You want to go back to when YOUR tribe owned the land, but not back to when you kicked another tribe off it. That's not integrity.

Since you are not willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer, I’d say we are done here.

 

[odanny]

 

[hadit]

Since you are not willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer, I’d say we are done here.

Quite a dodge there.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Lakhota]