Political Theories on Recent Shootings

[BlackSand]

No, I think the never ending litiny of excuses that gun nuts come up with to tell us that 10,000+ deaths from guns each year is natural, that our cities are having more people slaughtered by guns that other countries is just a demographic issue, and that teh words "militia" meant anyone who can point a gun is hilarious.

It is not the presence of defensive firearms but their absence that increases death tolls

-Geaux

We probably should have armed the kids at Sandy Hook, at Columbine, at _________ whatever is next...

In both cases the shooters shot themselves when someone with a firearm showed up ... Nice call ... You really don't know much do you?

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[LTCArmyRet]

Among Veterans??? The statistics you are quoting are for the general population.

Correct, please pay attention to the argument presented. A great number of WWII veterans are entering into a demographic which has a very high rate of suicide... which helps to partially explain why 22 veterans are committing suicide daily.

I am paying attention you fucking moron. The statistics you quoted in your one post were for the general population, not just veterans.. you got it from the CDC. Their report did not identify veterans specifically.

Pay attention to what you post!!!!

 

[legaleagle_45]

I am paying attention you fucking moron. The statistics you quoted in your one post were for the general population, not just veterans.. you got it from the CDC. Their report did not identify veterans specifically.

I am sorry. So it is not your attention span I should be critiquing, but your intelligence level. Got it now.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

I am paying attention you fucking moron. The statistics you quoted in your one post were for the general population, not just veterans.. you got it from the CDC. Their report did not identify veterans specifically.

I am sorry. So it is not your attention span I should be critiquing, but your intelligence level. Got it now.

LAME!!! can't handle it when someone proves you wrong, heh?

 

[BlackSand]

I think it is time we all settle this in the Pit with some Pugil Sticks ... And then knock out an ice chest of cold ones afterwards.

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[LTCArmyRet]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Geaux4it]

No, I think the never ending litiny of excuses that gun nuts come up with to tell us that 10,000+ deaths from guns each year is natural, that our cities are having more people slaughtered by guns that other countries is just a demographic issue, and that teh words "militia" meant anyone who can point a gun is hilarious.

It is not the presence of defensive firearms but their absence that increases death tolls

-Geaux

We probably should have armed the kids at Sandy Hook, at Columbine, at _________ whatever is next...

The teachers is a good start. Only reason it happens at schools and not at a shopping center is obvious. People like me are armed when in the mall, however, teachers not so much.

If I was a teacher I would risk my job and carry anyway

-Geaux

 

[legaleagle_45]

LAME!!! can't handle it when someone proves you wrong, heh?

Oh I can handle it and I have no trouble in admitting when I am wrong. However,the fact is that you have not done so. The further fact is you apparently don't understand why you have not done so. The latter factor is what makes your post hilarious.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

LAME!!! can't handle it when someone proves you wrong, heh?

Oh I can handle it and I have no trouble in admitting when I am wrong. However,the fact is that you have not done so. The further fact is you apparently don't understand why you have not done so. The latter factor is what makes your post hilarious.

So you are denying that you got those statistics from the CDC website?

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL.....a must see vid for people curious to know how the typical gun grabber thinks >>>>


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNb34vPqrN0#at=257]Debating A Gun Control Fanatic - YouTube[/ame]



These people are massively fucked........

 

[legaleagle_45]

So you are denying that you got those statistics from the CDC website?

Well I do deny that and I also assert that where I got those figures is irrelevant to the issue which we are discussing.

 

[candycorn]

That you characterize 10,000+ murders as "bad" and not tragic and ultimately preventable is the problem.

The latest figures show about 8,500 criminal homicides. Antigun groups jack that figure up by including legitimate instances of "legal intervention" and "self defense" as "homicides" and letting the reader believe that these are all murders.

Other nations have got it figured out. We haven't. The solution is obvious...fewer guns equals fewer deaths. Personally attack me all you wish; it doesn't change the fact.

Other nations have figured it out? How so? Merely because they currently have a lower homicide rate than the US? They had a lower homicide rate BEFORE they enacted gun control and it remained about the same. There are other reasons for the high homicide rate in the US Candy. How do you explain that are non firearm homicide rate is significantly higher than the total homicide rate in many European countries?

Tell us about the "other reasons" for our higher homicide rates? Are Americans just more homicidal (blaming liberals in 3....2.....1)

 

[candycorn]

That you characterize 10,000+ murders as "bad" and not tragic and ultimately preventable is the problem.

Other nations have got it figured out. We haven't. The solution is obvious...fewer guns equals fewer deaths. Personally attack me all you wish; it doesn't change the fact.

If tragedies are not bad ... How would you describe them?

Tragic...for starters. Preventable (more often than not) for another.

The countries you adore so much still have firearm deaths ... So I guess that gets rid of the idea they are preventable through legislation or geographical location.

When we have cities that are on a par with entire nations, obviously they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

I have been to quite a few countries that don't let their citizens own firearms and that are a hell of a lot more dangerous than America.

Really? Which ones?

The last I checked ... The countries you are referring to also don't fall under our Constitution ... Or have the equivalent of our 2nd Amendment.

Bingo Einstein. They don't see the logic in living under a document 200+ years old; written before street lamps and zippers.

 

[candycorn]

It is not the presence of defensive firearms but their absence that increases death tolls

-Geaux

We probably should have armed the kids at Sandy Hook, at Columbine, at _________ whatever is next...

Dumbest post yet for you Candy!!!

Coming from you, that is a compliment. Seeing as how Geaux blames the unarmed for their own deaths...

 

[Geaux4it]

We probably should have armed the kids at Sandy Hook, at Columbine, at _________ whatever is next...

Dumbest post yet for you Candy!!!

Coming from you, that is a compliment. Seeing as how Geaux blames the unarmed for their own deaths...

Why would I blame them? I blame the inept legislatures that disarm law abiding citizens that otherwise could save lives.

So, who is responsible for protecting myself and family against a criminal who wants to do us harm, regardless of the weapon they choose to enforce control?

-Geaux

 

[BlackSand]

Bingo Einstein. They don't see the logic in living under a document 200+ years old; written before street lamps and zippers.

Then change it ... There is the process and the ability to do so ... Quit hiding behind platitudes and underhanded attempts to circumvent the law.
If you think any part of the Constitution is outdated enough that it no longer applies ... Petition your representatives in Congress to do what is necessary to change it.

Or face the fact that a Constitutional amendment to ban private firearm ownership will never be ratified by 38 of the 50 states (at least not in our lifetime).

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[LTCArmyRet]

So you are denying that you got those statistics from the CDC website?

Well I do deny that and I also assert that where I got those figures is irrelevant to the issue which we are discussing.

NOT RELEVANT???? Are you even paying attention to your own posts?

The statistics you quoted were from the CDC (I'm sure there are other gov websites with same #s) website.

THEY ARE FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION, NOT JUST VETERANS!!!

 

[jon_berzerk]

The article continues:

The pattern is staggering. A number of U.S. cities have gun homicide rates in line with the most deadly nations in the world.

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.

Detroit's gun homicide rate (35.9) is just a bit less than El Salvador (39.9).

Baltimore's rate (29.7) is not too far off that of Guatemala (34.8).

Gun murder in Newark (25.4) and Miami (23.7) is comparable to Colombia (27.1).

Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

Los Angeles (9.2) is comparable to the Philippines (8.9).

Boston rate (6.2) is higher than Nicaragua (5.9).

New York, where gun murders have declined to just four per 100,000, is still higher than Argentina (3).

Even the cities with the lowest homicide rates by American standards, like San Jose and Austin, compare to Albania and Cambodia respectively.

Austin...the capitol of the reddest state in the union...

That any murder makes the news any longer is more bizarre than the murder itself it seems.

It's like a who is who celeb listing of LOLberal run cities!

good point

 

[LTCArmyRet]

[/B]

Dumbest post yet for you Candy!!!

Coming from you, that is a compliment. Seeing as how Geaux blames the unarmed for their own deaths...

Why would I blame them? I blame the inept legislatures that disarm law abiding citizens that otherwise could save lives.

So, who is responsible for protecting myself and family against a criminal who wants to do us harm, regardless of the weapon they choose to enforce control?

Geaux, this is like talking to a wall with her. You post something, she blames me, I post something, she blames you. Typical liberal bullshit. She is so stupid she can't comprehend that save is a synonym for prevent in your post. She's twisting words in a feeble attempt to make her ridiculous point. She doesn't understand that as long as the second amendment is in existence, owning a gun, carrying a gun is the best way to reduce gun violence.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Tell us about the "other reasons" for our higher homicide rates? Are Americans just more homicidal (blaming liberals in 3....2.....1)

You obviously don't know me to well...

The United States is an outlier statistically because it is the most ethnically, culturally, religiously, linguistically and racially diverse society in the history of the universe. This is both a blessing and a curse in that this diversity allows us to look at problems from different perspectives and fuels the American propensity for innovation.

The problem is that this diversity sometimes leads to division and strife. One aspect of US crime is that much of it is fueled by criminal gangs. The FBI reports that almost 40% of all criminal homicides in the entire USA are related to gang activity. The FBI also reports that 85% of all violent urban crime is gang related.

Criminal gangs form in urban areas, usually in poor neighborhoods and are usually based upon ethnic, racial or linguistic criteria. Criminal gangs most assuredly exists in other countries. Italy has the mafia, even Japan has the Black dragons and China has the Triad... Germany has counted 11 criminal gangs operating within its borders, mostly outlaw biker gangs and neo Nazi organizations. What differentiates the US and makes it a clear outlier is the sheer number of criminal gangs. Compared to Germany's 11, Chicago alone has identified 600 criminal gangs operating within its borders. Italian gangs, Irish gangs, Russian gangs, Black gangs, Hispanic gangs... all fight between themselves over turf and their share of the illegal drug trade. Inter gang warfare is largely responsible for the prevalence of drive by shootings and other murders that haunt our poor urban areas.

As shown by the "Broken Windows" approach of gang interdiction techniques initiated under Giuliani in the mid 1990's, focusing on criminal gangs will substantially impact crime rates.. much more so than any gun control initiative... In fact, the CDC found that no evidence exists that any single gun control law or combination of gun control laws impacts crime at all... none, zero, zip.

So... what we have is that gun control is an easy simple solution to a very complex problem. And like almost all simple solutions to complex problems, they do not work. However, and when those gun control laws fail to work, the common but wrong explanation is that the gun control laws were not strict enough and that if we just pass some even tougher gun control laws we will achieve Nirvana... leading (of course) to an ever spiraling level of strict gun control laws which are counter productive.

I say counter productive because focusing on gun control as a panacea allow us to pretend we are doing something and allows us to ignore the more difficult underlying causes which serve as a breeding ground for criminal gangs.. poverty, poor housing, poor education, poor economic prospects, discrimination... Yes, all of those are much too difficult to solve so lets close our eyes on those, let them fester and grow worse, because we can point our finger at guns as the boogeyman.