[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

In John Kerry's case, I'd say it was Theresa Heinz he fucked in the ass. (as well as elsewhere.)

(Apparently she liked it...)

Certainly marrying wealth works for many people.

There's a big difference between having and creating wealth. Creating it comes from actually producing goods and services. That defines the pot that we all have to divide up. More and more the people who create wealth are not the ones that keep the major share of the value that they add. Lots of parasites living off of every worker. A few of them are politicians.

My net worth is about 2 million give or take. I earned ALL OF IT.
Tell me specifically who I stole it from and who suffered as a result of me having a net worth of 2 million.
Specifics.

I don't even know you. I don't know what business you're in. I don't know what you're invested in.

Let's say you got some of it trading stocks. That doesn't mean that you stole it. It does mean that no wealth was created in the process of making it. No good or service was produced.

Same with gambling or lottery or marrying it.

See?

 

[PMZ]

Ah, you mean like government does?

Yes.

And again, the word "Marxist" bothers you because...

It's an inaccurate insult.

 

[PMZ]

So people only get rich "at the expense of everyone else"?
Who did Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry fuck in the ass after their wealth went over 100 million?

Wealth creates demand for that wealth and that creates jobs.
How else are jobs created?

Jobs are created by offering compelling, innovative goods and services. Better satisfying more customers.

Specific to your question, I have no idea. Do you?

LOL, so the consumer demand has nothing to do with it?
So when someone wipes their ass after taking a dump there is no demand for more shit paper when they run out.
Instead of that they seek "innovative goods and services".
Dude, you have no clue.

The only way to grow in the ass wipe business is more asses right?

 

[PMZ]

No, there doesn't have to be a Repub that can offer an explanation that makes sense. Because the premise doesn't make sense.

But I like your optimism.

And you still have friends that are conservatives? I gave up on all those kinds of "friends" a long time ago. They went all bat shit crazy on me. It really started downhill when they wanted to invade Iraq.

It's way to hard to call someone a "friend" when the policies they (purported friend) support would harm your own family.

That's why I don't have liberal friends. I'm not on good terms with any family members who voted for Obama. I told them where to get off. Of course, now they all hate Obama as well.

My sister still posts Daily Kos quotes on Facebook, and then gets her panties in a bunch because I tear her apart like a pitbull with a hambone in front of everyone. Well, dimwit, you have my phone number. You COULD discuss this in private.

Sadly, even my superior DNA cannot overcome the overwhelming "stuck on stupid" that is liberalism.

You sure haven't shown anything even average here. You're a Fox News reciter. Parrots can do that.

 

[PMZ]

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

1) No matter how much you hate anyone who doesn't live hand-to-mouth on a minimum-wage job like you do, it doesn't make everyone who benefits from the current capital gains rates "ultra-rich". Being richer than you is likely not a high bar to clear. And vastly more people who are NOT rich by any stretch of the imagination invest, or sell property, or any of a number of other activities to which the capital gains tax is applied. Think 401k plans, teacher and police pension funds . . .

2) Even if we allowed you to confiscate all the wealth and income from the hated "ultra-rich", it wouldn't "do anything about the debt". Capital gains taxes right now raise less than five percent of federal revenue. Do the math, and you realize that raising them to 100 percent, even if no change in economic activity occurred (which, of course, it would) would only provide a drop in the bucket for our debt.

So what you're advocating is NOT "doing something about the debt". What you're advocating is doing something meaningless and symbolic that will harm other people, provide no benefit, but satisfy your jealousy and vindictiveness. Sorry, but that's not a good enough reason.

Why should having wealth be rewarded over creating wealth through work?

 

[PMZ]

That number is so cooked. And everyone should pay taxes, it's the difference between being a citizen who feels invested in our country and a leach who lives off it. And anyone can acquire wealth, you spend less than you earn. People need to take some personal responsibility. Not just run around saying it's not fair, government needs to redistribute money to them when they don't make good choices.

There is a solution. Business growth. No pay for executives without evidence that their performance caused the US economy to grow.

PMS, who do you think pays corporate executives? And how is it, precisely, that YOU fit into that group and thus have fuck-all to say about what they're paid or why?

Executives are normally paid by BOD compensation teams comprised of other executives on a quid pro quo basis. You reward me and I'll reward you.

 

[PMZ]

Businesses are accountable to their customers and stock holders. if you are not a customer or stock holder then that business owes you nothing and you have no say in how they operate.

Only if you are a country hating conservative. And that's why they fail so badly at governance.

Shareholders are people who gamble on stock prices. They really don't care or know anything about the company, or benefit it beyond their sell target.

Wow. You REALLY know nothing about how corporations are run. I'm just . . . wow.



Costumers?

I'm just going to let that one sit for everyone to stare at for a bit.

So CEOs today are really not accountable to anyone except their buddies on the board and that's a big reason why business has failed us so badly lately.

So what you're saying is that "the Board" - whose actual relationship to the company you apparently know nothing about - just decides to give millions of dollars to some guy and let him run the company into the ground because they play golf together on Saturdays? Is THAT the business theory you're expounding here?

And "business has failed us"? Who is this "us", and what precisely is it that you think "business" owed you all and failed at providing?

The Supreme Court says that they are American citizens just like you and I. If so they, like conservatives, are irresponsible citizens.

Kinda the same question. What "responsibility" is it that you seem to think businesses - or conservatives - have to you, exactly?

Hopefully, this is not indicative of your superior DNA.

You are probably not aware that we are a democracy, right? Also we are consumers. We are the BOD of America. Business and government serve us, not vice versa.

Business has let America down. They've become not very good at their jobs. We are paying for their incompetence.

When government let us down we voted conservatives out, a trend that will surely continue.

Next we'll use our power as voters and consumers to go after business until we get conservatives out of there as well.

No conservative business leaders = growth. Growth = we can pay off the bills that Bush's policies left us. And we can move more rapidly on the biggest project mankind has ever taken on. The conversion to sustainable energy.

It's certainly not rocket science but I suspect well above your pay grade.

 

[PMZ]

Society at large has no business rewarding or not rewarding businesses. You, as a third party, are not supposed to get a vote in agreed upon transactions between two parties.

And your shrink to success idea is laughable. There is no tenent of conservatism that says the best way to have a successful business is to cut out all unncessary costs.

As a big government type it's interesting that you mention the importance of a business growing seeing as how the ever expansion of government from its taxes to its regulations serve as direct impediments to that growth.

I'm sick of business excusing their failure by putting on the 'we can't be successful without the help of government' act, a typical conservative whine. And your 'There is no tenent of conservatism that says the best way to have a successful business is to cut out all unncessary costs' is laughable.

The reason that you can't fool me with your bullshit is that I've had too much experience with business. I've worked with intelligent CEOs with the ability to create growth and a recognition of the synergy between their company and the community in which they are permitted to operate. People who respect employees and customers and know where those people live and raise their families. People who know that innovative products and processes are what makes companies grow and they come from treating people like humans rather than interchangeable parts.

The abject failure of conservatism is their inability to see beyond today and focus on yesterday. That makes them parasitic to success and harbingers of failure.

Conservatives whine about the need to get government more involved in business? Really? WHICH conservatives? When? Show me quotes.

How about unemployment is something the government needs to fix. Make sense to you?

 

[Gadawg73]

There is a solution. Business growth. No pay for executives without evidence that their performance caused the US economy to grow.

PMS, who do you think pays corporate executives? And how is it, precisely, that YOU fit into that group and thus have fuck-all to say about what they're paid or why?

Executives are normally paid by BOD compensation teams comprised of other executives on a quid pro quo basis. You reward me and I'll reward you.

How many board of directors have you sat on and what companies have you ever been an executive at?
Executives do not sit on the board of directors.
What is your definition of an executive? What do they do? What does the board of directors do?

 

[Gadawg73]

I'm sick of business excusing their failure by putting on the 'we can't be successful without the help of government' act, a typical conservative whine. And your 'There is no tenent of conservatism that says the best way to have a successful business is to cut out all unncessary costs' is laughable.

The reason that you can't fool me with your bullshit is that I've had too much experience with business. I've worked with intelligent CEOs with the ability to create growth and a recognition of the synergy between their company and the community in which they are permitted to operate. People who respect employees and customers and know where those people live and raise their families. People who know that innovative products and processes are what makes companies grow and they come from treating people like humans rather than interchangeable parts.

The abject failure of conservatism is their inability to see beyond today and focus on yesterday. That makes them parasitic to success and harbingers of failure.

Conservatives whine about the need to get government more involved in business? Really? WHICH conservatives? When? Show me quotes.

How about unemployment is something the government needs to fix. Make sense to you?

How does government "fix" unemployment other than taking money from raising taxes?
How many times in the history of this nation has government fixed unemployment long term?
Do you believe this administration could fix anything much less unemployment?

 

[Gadawg73]

Certainly marrying wealth works for many people.

There's a big difference between having and creating wealth. Creating it comes from actually producing goods and services. That defines the pot that we all have to divide up. More and more the people who create wealth are not the ones that keep the major share of the value that they add. Lots of parasites living off of every worker. A few of them are politicians.

My net worth is about 2 million give or take. I earned ALL OF IT.
Tell me specifically who I stole it from and who suffered as a result of me having a net worth of 2 million.
Specifics.

I don't even know you. I don't know what business you're in. I don't know what you're invested in.

Let's say you got some of it trading stocks. That doesn't mean that you stole it. It does mean that no wealth was created in the process of making it. No good or service was produced.

Same with gambling or lottery or marrying it.

See?

I own a detective agency for 34 years by myself. I work for attorneys and corporations and do no domestic work. I own an investment company that has bought raw land for the last 15 years and sat on it. I have sold land before in the past.
Who did I steal it from and made worse by becoming wealthy?
That is what you stated earlier as how people become wealthy. You claim that wealth is stolen from someone else.
Who did I steal it from? I
If I did make it trading stocks most certainly wealth is created in the process of making it. The person that bought the stock now has an interest in the company that he owns a stake in doing well. If he paid more than what I paid for it then that is an indication that company is doing very well.
You do know that when a stock price rises the company is doing well and when the price goes down and investors lose money that means that the company is not doing so good.
High stock price is a good indicator of increases in sales and that means more jobs.
Not always as many times when a company downsizes AFTER they have lost money their stock goes up. Of course the dumb masses on the left that have no business sense scream about that as they would rather see a company go bankrupt and everyone lose their entire investment in the company instead of one job being cut.

 

[Foxfyre]

This government has not only not done anything to 'fix' unemployment (not that any government can do that) but it has done pretty extreme stuff to ensure that unemployment has steadily increased with no light seen at the end of that tunnel.

Just off the top of my head recalling the news reports over the last five years, it has encouraged American businesses to keep trillions in investment capital sidelined by constantly threatening to impose higher and more punative taxes on that money.

It shut down thousands of jobs in the Gulf.

It has stalled thousands of jobs by blocking the Keystone Pipeline.

It has killed uncountable jobs with volumes of new restrictions and regulations imposed on private industry. Coal took a particularly big hit there.

It has outsourced jobs to other countries for a lot of green energy projects, and while this technically didn't increase U.S. unemployment, it certainly did little or nothing to 'fix' it.

It has provided assistance and support to other countries to boost their oil production while imposing greater restrictions on our own oil exploration and production.

It has killed tens of thousands of jobs with Obamacare and I fear we have only begun to see the beginning of the carnage there.

I have lived a long life now and have seen a lot of Presidents come and go. But I have never seen an Administration that even begins to compare to this one as being totally American business unfriendly and hostile to free enterprise and/or private sector solutions.

This administration has no intention of endorsing or allowing a 'fair share' concept when it comes to taxes. It will continue to push more and bigger and more authoritarian and more intrusive and more expensive government toward a goal of effectively killing the private sector so that government controls everything.

 

[PMZ]

PMS, who do you think pays corporate executives? And how is it, precisely, that YOU fit into that group and thus have fuck-all to say about what they're paid or why?

Executives are normally paid by BOD compensation teams comprised of other executives on a quid pro quo basis. You reward me and I'll reward you.

How many board of directors have you sat on and what companies have you ever been an executive at?
Executives do not sit on the board of directors.
What is your definition of an executive? What do they do? What does the board of directors do?

CEOs are compensated by other CEOs who sit on their BOD. It's a club. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours.

CEOs control the compensation of their executive team. They reward loyalty by compensation almost as lavish as theirs.

Then everyone uses the Republican propaganda service to reel in people like you to say, executives are Gods. They deserve to be treated like royalty. They create wealth, not workers.

And it's all wealth created by middle class workers. Who get very little of it.

 

[PMZ]

Conservatives whine about the need to get government more involved in business? Really? WHICH conservatives? When? Show me quotes.

How about unemployment is something the government needs to fix. Make sense to you?

How does government "fix" unemployment other than taking money from raising taxes?
How many times in the history of this nation has government fixed unemployment long term?
Do you believe this administration could fix anything much less unemployment?

The government can only put a floor under recession by making up the spending of unemployed workers. And continuing to employ their workers.

Other than that, it's product developers that create economic growth.

 

[Gadawg73]

Executives are normally paid by BOD compensation teams comprised of other executives on a quid pro quo basis. You reward me and I'll reward you.

How many board of directors have you sat on and what companies have you ever been an executive at?
Executives do not sit on the board of directors.
What is your definition of an executive? What do they do? What does the board of directors do?

CEOs are compensated by other CEOs who sit on their BOD. It's a club. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours.

CEOs control the compensation of their executive team. They reward loyalty by compensation almost as lavish as theirs.

Then everyone uses the Republican propaganda service to reel in people like you to say, executives are Gods. They deserve to be treated like royalty. They create wealth, not workers.

And it's all wealth created by middle class workers. Who get very little of it.

You have no clue. What you post is all false.
Many directors receive ONLY company stock and NO other compensation. Why? Because that is an incentive to do what is right for the COMPANY first as if the stock rises then their compensation is higher. A rising tide lifts all ships. Many corporations pick their directors based on how much money that individual has ALREADY risked in their corporation. Hint to the uninformed here including you: Someone that has a lot of their hard earned money at risk knows a lot about already how the company works top to bottom. Mr. X has 500K of his own money at risk in the company so he will be a good fit as a director. Expenses of the directors are always paid by the company. Additional cash stipend based on company performance ONLY is also included with many companies.
Of course there are high flying dicks that have a lot of cash around and have their brother in laws in charge. That is the exception and not the norm.
Every company that earns a profit does so with a good and ethical board of directors most all of the time.
The competition where we are and you need to open your eyes to is very competitive aswe are now in a global economy and there is very little if any wiggle room anymore for weak and unorganized board of directors. They earn every bit of their pay and in most instances if a company loses money the executive staff who is delegated a good deal of power in operating the company lobbies the shareholders to vote them out.
Real world, please join us in it.

 

[Gadawg73]

How about unemployment is something the government needs to fix. Make sense to you?

How does government "fix" unemployment other than taking money from raising taxes?
How many times in the history of this nation has government fixed unemployment long term?
Do you believe this administration could fix anything much less unemployment?

The government can only put a floor under recession by making up the spending of unemployed workers. And continuing to employ their workers.

Other than that, it's product developers that create economic growth.

Hey now, there is some truth to that.
So where is that growth in developing products?
Horse and buggies or technical applications that require an educated work force that is trained for what the market DEMANDS?
We spend too much time and money appeasing the uneducated masses that time has passed by bitching about low skilled jobs gone to Timbuktu.

 

[PMZ]

My net worth is about 2 million give or take. I earned ALL OF IT.
Tell me specifically who I stole it from and who suffered as a result of me having a net worth of 2 million.
Specifics.

I don't even know you. I don't know what business you're in. I don't know what you're invested in.

Let's say you got some of it trading stocks. That doesn't mean that you stole it. It does mean that no wealth was created in the process of making it. No good or service was produced.

Same with gambling or lottery or marrying it.

See?

I own a detective agency for 34 years by myself. I work for attorneys and corporations and do no domestic work. I own an investment company that has bought raw land for the last 15 years and sat on it. I have sold land before in the past.
Who did I steal it from and made worse by becoming wealthy?
That is what you stated earlier as how people become wealthy. You claim that wealth is stolen from someone else.
Who did I steal it from? I
If I did make it trading stocks most certainly wealth is created in the process of making it. The person that bought the stock now has an interest in the company that he owns a stake in doing well. If he paid more than what I paid for it then that is an indication that company is doing very well.
You do know that when a stock price rises the company is doing well and when the price goes down and investors lose money that means that the company is not doing so good.
High stock price is a good indicator of increases in sales and that means more jobs.
Not always as many times when a company downsizes AFTER they have lost money their stock goes up. Of course the dumb masses on the left that have no business sense scream about that as they would rather see a company go bankrupt and everyone lose their entire investment in the company instead of one job being cut.

''You claim that wealth is stolen from someone else.''

Never.

 

[PMZ]

This government has not only not done anything to 'fix' unemployment (not that any government can do that) but it has done pretty extreme stuff to ensure that unemployment has steadily increased with no light seen at the end of that tunnel.

Just off the top of my head recalling the news reports over the last five years, it has encouraged American businesses to keep trillions in investment capital sidelined by constantly threatening to impose higher and more punative taxes on that money.

It shut down thousands of jobs in the Gulf.

It has stalled thousands of jobs by blocking the Keystone Pipeline.

It has killed uncountable jobs with volumes of new restrictions and regulations imposed on private industry. Coal took a particularly big hit there.

It has outsourced jobs to other countries for a lot of green energy projects, and while this technically didn't increase U.S. unemployment, it certainly did little or nothing to 'fix' it.

It has provided assistance and support to other countries to boost their oil production while imposing greater restrictions on our own oil exploration and production.

It has killed tens of thousands of jobs with Obamacare and I fear we have only begun to see the beginning of the carnage there.

I have lived a long life now and have seen a lot of Presidents come and go. But I have never seen an Administration that even begins to compare to this one as being totally American business unfriendly and hostile to free enterprise and/or private sector solutions.

This administration has no intention of endorsing or allowing a 'fair share' concept when it comes to taxes. It will continue to push more and bigger and more authoritarian and more intrusive and more expensive government toward a goal of effectively killing the private sector so that government controls everything.

I see that you're one of those that believes that democracy sucks because people should have no say about their country. Only business should. We should all be guided by the one rule of business. Make more money regardless of the cost to others. The evidence that supports this, is the success of the following countries that operate under this dictatorship of business.

(Please list the countries.)

 

[PMZ]

How does government "fix" unemployment other than taking money from raising taxes?
How many times in the history of this nation has government fixed unemployment long term?
Do you believe this administration could fix anything much less unemployment?

The government can only put a floor under recession by making up the spending of unemployed workers. And continuing to employ their workers.

Other than that, it's product developers that create economic growth.

Hey now, there is some truth to that.
So where is that growth in developing products?
Horse and buggies or technical applications that require an educated work force that is trained for what the market DEMANDS?
We spend too much time and money appeasing the uneducated masses that time has passed by bitching about low skilled jobs gone to Timbuktu.

I'm a huge supporter of education.

My role, as a matter of fact, is to expose the uneducated masses who post here.

Some of them are so uneducated that they hold government accountable for the failures of business. Can you imagine?

 

[PMZ]

America was founded as a plutocracy but we the people, through blood, sweat and tears, forged a democracy from that, putting us in charge of government. Now the forces of plutocracy have re-emerged and are attempting to deny we, the people, and empower wealth and business that we fought the Revolutionary and Civil wars to escape from.

Fortunately a majority of we, the people are not taken in by propaganda and understand that the forces of plutocracy brought on our recent holy wars, the massive wealth redistribution away from those who create it, and the Great Recession.

It's our country and our responsibility to avoid a repeat. Our predecessors fought for our power. Democracy. Voting. And that's all that we need to restore common sense to government and business. They are accountable to us, not vice versa.

Vote them out.