[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[RKMBrown]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

I think that everyone can agree that welfare abuse is a crime. Just like tax fraud. Criminals should be held accountable.

Wealth redistribution is a fact of life. Capitalism up, government down. Capitalism has won lately to the point that half of the population doesn't even get paid enough to owe taxes.

But it's not about money. It's about power. Republicans want power to recreate the aristocracy that the American Revolution and Civil Wars were fought to end.

We, the people won the wars to earn democracy, and we're going to win the war at democracies voting booths to keep what people died to give us.

Here you go again making up stupid lies.

 

[Gadawg73]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

My first job in 1970 was $1.60 a hour pumping gas, washing windshields and "chek that uhl boy". Left that for an outdoor job my senior year in high school in between football and other sports seasons at a local farm baling hay, slopping hogs and such. $3 a hour for that job which was a lot in 1972. That is why I love rec sports for kids as they learn the lesson of hard work and discipline. And if you are ever able to get out there at the next level head on a swivel is what you better have. Life ain't fair 'tween the lines! Someone is going to blow you up given the chance.

 

[Gadawg73]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

I think that everyone can agree that welfare abuse is a crime. Just like tax fraud. Criminals should be held accountable.

Wealth redistribution is a fact of life. Capitalism up, government down. Capitalism has won lately to the point that half of the population doesn't even get paid enough to owe taxes.

But it's not about money. It's about power. Republicans want power to recreate the aristocracy that the American Revolution and Civil Wars were fought to end.

We, the people won the wars to earn democracy, and we're going to win the war at democracies voting booths to keep what people died to give us.

Here you go again making up stupid lies.

And PMZ believes we live in a democracy!

 

[PMZ]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

There is plenty of evidence among your posts that your performance was greatly enhanced only in your mind.

The Viagra effect.

 

[PMZ]

Well, I will watch it Creek here and there. My Brother John is a HUGE Vikings fan! Husband loves Giants, hahahaha, Jim of course with the steelers, and I happen to like the Cowboys! I think I have a pic of Jim in his Steelers shirt.

Zero evidence again!

 

[kaz]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

I think that everyone can agree that welfare abuse is a crime. Just like tax fraud. Criminals should be held accountable.

Wealth redistribution is a fact of life. Capitalism up, government down. Capitalism has won lately to the point that half of the population doesn't even get paid enough to owe taxes.

But it's not about money. It's about power. Republicans want power to recreate the aristocracy that the American Revolution and Civil Wars were fought to end.

We, the people won the wars to earn democracy, and we're going to win the war at democracies voting booths to keep what people died to give us.

Dennis: An' how'd they get that, eh? By exploitin' the workers -- by 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic an' social differences in our society! We're living in a dictatorship. ..... A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

Yes, comrade, the proletariat is oppressed by the bourgeois.

Why does the word "Marxist" bother you again?

 

[PMZ]

Above meant for Brown.

 

[PMZ]

I think that everyone can agree that welfare abuse is a crime. Just like tax fraud. Criminals should be held accountable.

Wealth redistribution is a fact of life. Capitalism up, government down. Capitalism has won lately to the point that half of the population doesn't even get paid enough to owe taxes.

But it's not about money. It's about power. Republicans want power to recreate the aristocracy that the American Revolution and Civil Wars were fought to end.

We, the people won the wars to earn democracy, and we're going to win the war at democracies voting booths to keep what people died to give us.

Here you go again making up stupid lies.

And PMZ believes we live in a democracy!

If you voted you'd know that I'm right.

 

[kaz]

Here you go again making up stupid lies.

And PMZ believes we live in a democracy!

If you voted you'd know that I'm right.

Actually we're a republic, if you understood your vote, you'd know you didn't vote directly for a single National office or issue.

 

[PMZ]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

My first job in 1970 was $1.60 a hour pumping gas, washing windshields and "chek that uhl boy". Left that for an outdoor job my senior year in high school in between football and other sports seasons at a local farm baling hay, slopping hogs and such. $3 a hour for that job which was a lot in 1972. That is why I love rec sports for kids as they learn the lesson of hard work and discipline. And if you are ever able to get out there at the next level head on a swivel is what you better have. Life ain't fair 'tween the lines! Someone is going to blow you up given the chance.

Kill or be killed. The predators motto. Adequate for cavemen and Republicans.

 

[RKMBrown]

My first child started school in 1991.
This is what we saw for 2 decades as my youngest graduated high school 2011.
Parents driving new SUVs qualifying for free school lunches.
Parents that can work qualifying for social security disability and proud that they have received something for nothing with their handicapped car tags.
Parents that I would see drinking pitchers of beer at the Mexican restaurant down the street registering for their kids to play for free in the rec leagues.
Parents paying for the food with food stamps and paying cash for their Michelob Light, charcoal and Marlboro cartons of smokes.
Section 8 housing filled with parents that have money for a boat.
Redistribution of wealth has ruined this country and we need to redistribute work ethic.
If you did not earn it you are not supposed to be given it.

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

There is plenty of evidence among your posts that your performance was greatly enhanced only in your mind.

The Viagra effect.

Sorry old man but I don't need and never have needed artificial stimulants to get it up. I was promoted at 18 to manager at that store even though I was only working part time to get my way through school. I would generally work one day a week from 4am on Saturday to 2am the next day. I got paid overtime after 8hrs. Good times.

 

[dcraelin]

Tell me why not apply that to everything?

The first 2000 calories a day of food you buy are more important than the rest so why not tax the less important food?

Your second pair of shoes is less important than your first so tax those

Your second warm jacket is less important than your first.....

taxing the last dollar more is a simpler way of doing just that

How "important" a dollar I earn is none of the government's business. Deciding how much of my money I get to keep is not a legitimate government function.

The government creates money, its utility would be worthless without the government

That isn't how compensation works. I've lost count how many liberals need explained to them an employer doesn't compensate you based on what you need. They compensate you based on your market value because labor is commodity like everything else, including health care.

This is exactly the reason I'm not against taxing the rich more on their last dollars, as Republican Ike did at a rate of 91%. Compensation is a function of supply and demand, for the rich as well as laborers.

So what does soaking the rich have to do with supply and demand?

It shows that it isn't "soaking the rich" but taking a part of a windfall.

As long as you realize that IKE taxed even the lowest brackets at a higher percentage than we do today and you're fine with it.

People were earning more (inflation adjusted) back then I believe, so no Im not ok with that part of it.

Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism, endorsed progressive taxation.

Obviously, he was a dirty socialist. At least the kook right says so. Which just goes to show how off-the-rails the modern right is.

Adam Smith wrote:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

IOW he was simply proposing rent tax would fall on the rich more so than the homeless poor, that does not mean he was proposing progressive income taxes. He was proposing taxes of one kind of an equal % for all over taxes that hit the cost of food products. Sales taxes that exempt food products does the same thing.

you missed the last part of the smith quote, "not only in proportion to their revenue but something more than in that proportion"

 

[Gadawg73]

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

My first job in 1970 was $1.60 a hour pumping gas, washing windshields and "chek that uhl boy". Left that for an outdoor job my senior year in high school in between football and other sports seasons at a local farm baling hay, slopping hogs and such. $3 a hour for that job which was a lot in 1972. That is why I love rec sports for kids as they learn the lesson of hard work and discipline. And if you are ever able to get out there at the next level head on a swivel is what you better have. Life ain't fair 'tween the lines! Someone is going to blow you up given the chance.

Kill or be killed. The predators motto. Adequate for cavemen and Republicans.

The predators are the Democrats plundering from the producers to give out to the expanding moocher class for votes.

 

[Gadawg73]

My first pay stub job back in 1978 was bagging groceries for 2.65. I was happy to have the money and it was easier than cutting grass and keeping the mower going in the florida heat. I got raises for effort, where the bad workers did not. Then the people that did not earn raises got a raise and my boss told me he was sorry he could not give me another raise because he had to give that quarter's raise allotments to the workers that did not deserve it.

My first lesson in liberal logic.

My first job in 1970 was $1.60 a hour pumping gas, washing windshields and "chek that uhl boy". Left that for an outdoor job my senior year in high school in between football and other sports seasons at a local farm baling hay, slopping hogs and such. $3 a hour for that job which was a lot in 1972. That is why I love rec sports for kids as they learn the lesson of hard work and discipline. And if you are ever able to get out there at the next level head on a swivel is what you better have. Life ain't fair 'tween the lines! Someone is going to blow you up given the chance.

Kill or be killed. The predators motto. Adequate for cavemen and Republicans.

Adequate for those that have had the balls to suit it up and cross the lines.
Obviously that would not have included you.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm fine with workers retaining a significant % of the wealth that they create.

What is dysfunctional is to ask the wealthy to divide up the wealth that workers create.

It's OK with you if they retain a portion of their wealth? I've never seen such an obviously Fascist point of view posted in this forum.

The workers get all the wealth they are entitled to. The wealthy take nothing from anyone. If you don't like the pay your employer has agreed to pay you, then go somewhere else. You are insisting that you are entitled to hold a gun to someone's head for force them to give you what you think you are entitled to, not what they have agreed to give you. That's what's at the bottom of all these discussions about a so-called "living wage."

I can picture you in 1860, with a gun nested in your arms, giving that speech to slaves.

I can picture you in 1933 wearing a brown shirt, jack boots and an armband with a swastika on it shouting "Heil Hitler!"

'

'You get two meals a day. You got a roof over your head, some rags on your back. Stop bitchin'. You don't have my responsibilities taking care of the big house! ''

You are pathetic. Freedom of contract isn't the equivalent of slavery. Apparently you believe black slaves gained nothing when the 13th Amendment passed. Do you believe minimum wage is just as bad as getting flogged or having your foot amputated? Apparently you do.

Despicable.

If you want to earn more than $7.00 an hour, no one is stopping you from gaining the skills you need to get more.

 

[bripat9643]

Tell me why not apply that to everything?

The first 2000 calories a day of food you buy are more important than the rest so why not tax the less important food?

Your second pair of shoes is less important than your first so tax those

Your second warm jacket is less important than your first.....

taxing the last dollar more is a simpler way of doing just that

How "important" a dollar I earn is none of the government's business. Deciding how much of my money I get to keep is not a legitimate government function.

The government creates money, its utility would be worthless without the government



It shows that it isn't "soaking the rich" but taking a part of a windfall.



People were earning more (inflation adjusted) back then I believe, so no Im not ok with that part of it.

Adam Smith wrote:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

IOW he was simply proposing rent tax would fall on the rich more so than the homeless poor, that does not mean he was proposing progressive income taxes. He was proposing taxes of one kind of an equal % for all over taxes that hit the cost of food products. Sales taxes that exempt food products does the same thing.

you missed the last part of the smith quote, "not only in proportion to their revenue but something more than in that proportion"

He's talking about a straight percentage tax on rental property. Rich people would pay it more because poor people don't own rental property. It's no more "progressive" than a tax on luxury goods. Smith never supported an income tax, period, let alone a progressive income tax.

 

[RKMBrown]

Tell me why not apply that to everything?

The first 2000 calories a day of food you buy are more important than the rest so why not tax the less important food?

Your second pair of shoes is less important than your first so tax those

Your second warm jacket is less important than your first.....

taxing the last dollar more is a simpler way of doing just that


The government creates money, its utility would be worthless without the government



It shows that it isn't "soaking the rich" but taking a part of a windfall.



People were earning more (inflation adjusted) back then I believe, so no Im not ok with that part of it.

Adam Smith wrote:

IOW he was simply proposing rent tax would fall on the rich more so than the homeless poor, that does not mean he was proposing progressive income taxes. He was proposing taxes of one kind of an equal % for all over taxes that hit the cost of food products. Sales taxes that exempt food products does the same thing.

you missed the last part of the smith quote, "not only in proportion to their revenue but something more than in that proportion"

He's talking about a straight percentage tax on rental property. Rich people would pay it more because poor people don't own rental property. It's no more "progressive" than a tax on luxury goods. Smith never supported an income tax, period, let alone a progressive income tax.

Ayup, funny how they missed that. They see the word "proportion" and get a major hard-on. But completely miss that it's flat by amount of rent and not progressive. LOL I don't think liberals actually went to math classes.

 

[bripat9643]

Tell me why not apply that to everything?

The first 2000 calories a day of food you buy are more important than the rest so why not tax the less important food?

Your second pair of shoes is less important than your first so tax those

Your second warm jacket is less important than your first.....

taxing the last dollar more is a simpler way of doing just that

Obviously the fact the he's trying to demonstrate why the logic of progressive taxation is stupid went right over your head as well.

How "important" a dollar I earn is none of the government's business. Deciding how much of my money I get to keep is not a legitimate government function.

The government creates money, its utility would be worthless without the government

So that means the government actually is the legal owner of every dollar my employer pays me?

You aren't really that stupid, are you?

Government prints money because that allows government to debase the currency. In other words, it allows government to steal your savings. Private banks printed money prior to the government taking over the business. That occurred because printing money makes it so easy to steal..

[It shows that it isn't "soaking the rich" but taking a part of a windfall.

It shows that you're an imbecile. Apparently you believe a "windfall" is money that rightly belongs to the government. You're nothing but a thug who wants to take what others have earned.

 

[bripat9643]

taxing the last dollar more is a simpler way of doing just that


The government creates money, its utility would be worthless without the government



It shows that it isn't "soaking the rich" but taking a part of a windfall.



People were earning more (inflation adjusted) back then I believe, so no Im not ok with that part of it.



you missed the last part of the smith quote, "not only in proportion to their revenue but something more than in that proportion"

He's talking about a straight percentage tax on rental property. Rich people would pay it more because poor people don't own rental property. It's no more "progressive" than a tax on luxury goods. Smith never supported an income tax, period, let alone a progressive income tax.

Ayup, funny how they missed that. They see the word "proportion" and get a major hard-on. But completely miss that it's flat by amount of rent and not progressive. LOL I don't think liberals actually went to math classes.

It's amazing that liberals can dress themselves in the morning, let alone solve simple math problems.

 

[Bern80]

You're now the global expert on how compensation works?

You're the one that wants it both ways. You have to choose between paying all full time workers a living wage plus enough to get them on the tax roles or accept the current situation. People aren't going to voluntarily die on the street to pay for your Rolls.

As labor is a commodity, yes, that's how it works.

And no, your narrow minded option is not the only one. It is no one's responsibility but your own to ensure you have what you need to live on. THAT is the other option. People take responsibility for themselves and if they don't we allow them to suffer the consequences. Just the same way you said a business should be run.

So, in your mind all poverty stems from irresponsibility?

I see no more evidence for that than the position that no poverty stems from it.

No. The point is no one can obligate someone else to their own survival. Regardless of whether the conditions they're in are their own fault or not.