[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

No, your position that everyone is disagreeing with is that business leaders should be held accountable to dimwits on the street like you, who have no investment in or connection with the business.

It's kinda like you saying if I cheat on my husband, I owe YOU an apology, because you don't approve. Who the fuck are you, and what business is it of yours? Same basic concept. I didn't marry you, so I have no obligation to you to be a good wife, and you have fuck-all to do with their business, so they have no obligation to you in regards to how they run it.

If you still don't get it, I guess I can break out the Crayolas and draw you a picture.

Another conservative icon. Avoid accountability. Avoid responsibility.
What's amazing would be anyone who would believe that a country would work based on irresponsible people with no accountability.

The peak of ignorance.

That's a laugher. Again which party legislates policies that absolve people of responsibility. Advocating a living wage is avoiding responsibility. Abortion on demand is avoiding responsibility. Protecting welfare is avoiding responsbility. All LIBERAL agendas.

Why do you think that reciting propaganda resembles thinking?

 

[PMZ]

I know the definition of the two words and they are unrelated.
A republic is a government without a monarch.
Democracy is a decision making strategy. By voting. It's also a form of government that uses that strategy to make decisions.
You've been instructed to deny democracy as a step towards plutocracy and aristocracy. Rule by the privileged.
Unfortunately for your leaders our democracy won't go away. Our government is of, by, and for the people. Not the privileged. All the people.

We don't have a democracy in this country. Never have. It is not majority rule. This is a fundamental myth about our country that for whatever reason we can't shake. Our form of government is and always has been known as a democratic republic. Not a democracy.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/membe...cture-is-him-at-constitutional-convention.jpg

The Founders creating a plutocracy, a type of aristocracy, based on the models they knew from Europe. They had one good, original idea. They allowed their product to be amended. By the people. Democracy is our creation not theirs.

 

[RKMBrown]

Another conservative icon. Avoid accountability. Avoid responsibility.
What's amazing would be anyone who would believe that a country would work based on irresponsible people with no accountability.

The peak of ignorance.

That's a laugher. Again which party legislates policies that absolve people of responsibility. Advocating a living wage is avoiding responsibility. Abortion on demand is avoiding responsibility. Protecting welfare is avoiding responsbility. All LIBERAL agendas.

Why do you think that reciting propaganda resembles thinking?

And there he goes again... hands over his ears ... blah blah blah FOX FOX FOX propaganda propaganda propaganda, I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!!

 

[PMZ]

We're not talking about attacking people. Not paying someone enough to live on is not an attack. Your employer doesn't owe you enough to live on. That is not the reason they pay you. They pay you based on the value of the skill you provide them. That might be enough to live on or more or it might not. At the end of the day you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what you need to survive.

So you don't have a problem with those that make their "living" off of working the welfare system? I mean, if you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what they need to survive.

What does the employee of the company the isn't paying them enough to live on, what does that employee owe the company he works for? Nothing? Street runs both ways right?

I mean if a fast food worker messes up at the register, spits in the food, is rude to customers etc. they don't "owe" that company their best effort do they?

People are paid according to their skills and the demand for those skills.
Something about the free market where one can go and obtain the skills they need to make more money.
Or sit and cry about how someone else has more than them.

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

 

[Bern80]

A whole lot of fire and police and military and health care professionals and parents and grandparents would disagree.

In fact, I would venture that most human beings would disagree.

If you want a real life demonstration, threaten one of my grandchildren.

We're not talking about attacking people. Not paying someone enough to live on is not an attack. Your employer doesn't owe you enough to live on. That is not the reason they pay you. They pay you based on the value of the skill you provide them. That might be enough to live on or more or it might not. At the end of the day you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what you need to survive.

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

Personally I just thought it came from being a moral, responsible human being. You apparently don't think so. So explain to me why you or any other able bodied person, DO have the right to make someone else responsible for you having enough to live on.

 

[PMZ]

Well, that's a true statement, but there's more to it then that. It's like saying a fish is a dog without fur. True, but a dog without fur is not necessarily a fish.


Again, a true statement, but again, not specific enough. A democracy is a direct vote, majority rules. We don't even elect our President that way. We have no national referendums. Our republics may be democracies in ways, but our Federal government is in no way a democracy. Did you know the term wasn't even used until the mid 20th century?


What does that mean?


Right, I'm a free market libertarian who ... something Marxist, you can explain it later.


Yes comrade, you mentioned the bourgeois is oppressing the proletariat. I got it.

You got the Fox propaganda down pat. Everyone who thinks for themselves is a Marxist. And loves Cuba.

Robots are free.

What makes you free? The tyranny of minority rule.

Wealth is the measure of capability.
Hate all liberals, Democrats, government workers, union workers, in fact all workers, non Christians, immigrants legal and illegal, all races but white, the poor, the middle class, foreigners, women, the educated, the young and old and all government.

Why? They all steal your money.

The only people you can trust are those that look, think, talk and smell like you.

Creating wealth is for slaves. Having wealth is aristocratic.

You are entitled. Let the others eat cake.

Tyranny of the minority rule.. what a blanking retard you are. Yeah cause the majority should have the right to eat minorities. What drugs are you on?

Tyranny is defined as minority rule.

 

[RKMBrown]

[/B]


So you don't have a problem with those that make their "living" off of working the welfare system? I mean, if you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what they need to survive.

What does the employee of the company the isn't paying them enough to live on, what does that employee owe the company he works for? Nothing? Street runs both ways right?

I mean if a fast food worker messes up at the register, spits in the food, is rude to customers etc. they don't "owe" that company their best effort do they?

People are paid according to their skills and the demand for those skills.
Something about the free market where one can go and obtain the skills they need to make more money.
Or sit and cry about how someone else has more than them.

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

>>> Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

Why don't you start a business and pay workers the maximum that you can up to and including selling everything you have and taking no salary whatsoever?

>>> The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

Where is the democrat party on this? When do they plan to set all executive salaries? Point me to one party plank of theirs that says how they will fix the Executive Oligopoly over Executive salaries. They held all three branches of government and did nothing about it. NOTHING

 

[Bern80]

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

Conversely, employees try to get as much money of the employers as they can get away with. It's called negotiation.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

Then the consumer has only to blame themselves. Accountability of the business is their job in a free market economy. More proof that it is liberals who are anti-personal accountability. You would rather abdicate that responsibilty to government in the form of red tape and regulations as opposed to the consumers being vocal about a crooked CEO and/or not doing business with them. But you want your cake and be able to it too. You still want what he's selling, but don't like the money he's making doing it.

 

[PMZ]

The government should hold him accountable for his crimes, the owners of the company should hold him accountable for his performance.

If it ain't Marxist, you don't even hear it, do you?

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

You need to get to the Emergency room you are just babbling. Probably about to have a stroke. Workers work to earn income, normally they get paid for their work. Owners hire people to work for them for a wage. They pay for that wage using their own money and/or money they get from customers.

The customers are the workers.

Simple formula. Charge the customers as much as possible, pay the same people as workers as little as possible, pocket the difference.

 

[PMZ]

That's a laugher. Again which party legislates policies that absolve people of responsibility. Advocating a living wage is avoiding responsibility. Abortion on demand is avoiding responsibility. Protecting welfare is avoiding responsbility. All LIBERAL agendas.

Why do you think that reciting propaganda resembles thinking?

And there he goes again... hands over his ears ... blah blah blah FOX FOX FOX propaganda propaganda propaganda, I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!!

Are you completely unfamiliar with thinking??????

 

[RKMBrown]

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

Conversely, employees try to get as much money of the employers as they can get away with. It's called negotiation.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

Then the consumer has only to blame themselves. Accountability of the business is their job in a free market economy.

Our government is supposed to break up monopolies, oligopolies, and ensure the markets are fair for the consumers. In this case a great majority of corporations are set up such that the owners of the companies (stock holders) are not given authority to set executive salaries, nay, it is the Executives themselves that set their own salaries for the entire executive chain.. It's a bit odd and more than a small problem.

 

[kaz]

You got the Fox propaganda down pat.

Yes, Fox, a conservative channel, it programming me to be a libertarian. Clever bastards they are. Most people would think conservatives if they were controlling someone would make them a conservative. But you saw through their ruse, let's make them libertarian!

What a dumb ass.

What makes you free? The tyranny of minority rule

My rule is a minority of one. I believe that you and I should make our own choices over our own lives. You believe that you should make both our choices over both our lives. And I'm the one who supports tyranny.

Noted. What a dumb ass.

 

[RKMBrown]

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

You need to get to the Emergency room you are just babbling. Probably about to have a stroke. Workers work to earn income, normally they get paid for their work. Owners hire people to work for them for a wage. They pay for that wage using their own money and/or money they get from customers.

The customers are the workers.

Simple formula. Charge the customers as much as possible, pay the same people as workers as little as possible, pocket the difference.

Does not work that way dufus. Workers can move around from company to company shopping for higher pay, and they do. Customers can shop around from company to company shopping for better deals, and they do.

Clearly your world view is more than a little simplistic.

 

[PMZ]

We're not talking about attacking people. Not paying someone enough to live on is not an attack. Your employer doesn't owe you enough to live on. That is not the reason they pay you. They pay you based on the value of the skill you provide them. That might be enough to live on or more or it might not. At the end of the day you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what you need to survive.

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

Personally I just thought it came from being a moral, responsible human being. You apparently don't think so. So explain to me why you or any other able bodied person, DO have the right to make someone else responsible for you having enough to live on.

Is your question, as a moral, responsible human being, why do people live cooperatively and collaboratively?

I was always taught that it's because we're moral, responsible human beings, and not monkeys.

 

[kaz]

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

When anyone else sells something, the buyer owns it. If you buy a car from Ford, you own the car, Ford doesn't own it anymore.

Except with Marxists and labor. As a business owner, I put everything on the line. I take all the risk, if we go broke I lose all my money. My employees get paid hell or high water. If we go bust, they lose nothing except they have to get another job.

But you think that after I pay them to work for me, THEY still own what they produced. Straight out of the Communist Manifesto. Democrats are a Marxist party, but you stand out in that your arguments are even clearer in that they are right out of the words of Marx.

 

[PMZ]

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

Conversely, employees try to get as much money of the employers as they can get away with. It's called negotiation.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

Then the consumer has only to blame themselves. Accountability of the business is their job in a free market economy. More proof that it is liberals who are anti-personal accountability. You would rather abdicate that responsibilty to government in the form of red tape and regulations as opposed to the consumers being vocal about a crooked CEO and/or not doing business with them. But you want your cake and be able to it too. You still want what he's selling, but don't like the money he's making doing it.

I get it. Accountability is the responsibility of the little people, but the aristocracy is absolved of it.

Gotcha.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why do you think that reciting propaganda resembles thinking?

And there he goes again... hands over his ears ... blah blah blah FOX FOX FOX propaganda propaganda propaganda, I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!! I'm not listening!!!

Are you completely unfamiliar with thinking??????

Your only repose to nearly every argument is to say everyone but you is an idiot that merely regurgitates propaganda. You are the one that is incapable of independent thought. The reason for this is your cognitive dissonance. You panic each and every time.

 

[kaz]

Look up the word democracy. Look up the word republic. Turn off the TV. This ain't rocket science.

You're the biggest robot here.

And yet you're the one who sits there with only partial knowledge of what words you are using mean and still you are too lazy to Google the full meaning. Republic is not a monarchy, but it means more than more than just not a monarchy. Democracy involves voting, but it means more than just voting. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You should just write this conversation off as we already know you're a dim wit and learn the meaning so you don't look so stupid right off the bad in your next discussion on the topic.

 

[PMZ]

People are paid according to their skills and the demand for those skills.
Something about the free market where one can go and obtain the skills they need to make more money.
Or sit and cry about how someone else has more than them.

Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

>>> Workers are paid the minimum that corporations, following their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others, can get away with.

Why don't you start a business and pay workers the maximum that you can up to and including selling everything you have and taking no salary whatsoever?

>>> The exceptions are executives who are freed of accountability and payed by their friends as much as the corporation can get away with.

Where is the democrat party on this? When do they plan to set all executive salaries? Point me to one party plank of theirs that says how they will fix the Executive Oligopoly over Executive salaries. They held all three branches of government and did nothing about it. NOTHING

Another good Republican recital. If you see a problem, treat it exactly like you would dog shit. Go around it. Avoid it at all costs. Humans, except for the Fox Cult, are incapable of solving problems. And the Fox Cult are absolved from responsibility and accountability because they're aristocracy.

Blame it on the people.

 

[kaz]

Tyranny is defined as minority rule.

Damn, if you're trying to make liberals look stupid, you're doing an excellent job, my man. Continuing to make up word definitions when, hello, you have a browser.