[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Bern80]

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

Personally I just thought it came from being a moral, responsible human being. You apparently don't think so. So explain to me why you or any other able bodied person, DO have the right to make someone else responsible for you having enough to live on.

Is your question, as a moral, responsible human being, why do people live cooperatively and collaboratively?

I was always taught that it's because we're moral, responsible human beings, and not monkeys.

No. The question is, why is it you think you have the right to make someone else responsible for you having a enough to live on?

 

[PMZ]

The Obama administration

I hesitate to call Obamunism "tyranny." While the Obamunists are authoritarian and show utter contempt for the Constitution, they have not attempted dissolved congress, blockaded the Supreme Court, or ordered the arrest or the Chief Justice - all of which Abraham Lincoln did. I see that the Obamunists are on the ROAD to tyranny, and that it is they end game; but we ain't there yet - and with perseverance, never will be.

They trample on our Constitutional rights

The GOP majority in the House was blown away and stripped of it's Constitutional power to have a say in the budget because of a PR lynching orchestrated by the Democratic party and carried out by the liberal media.

John Roberts was intimidated into changing his vote to uphold Obamacare by knowing he would be vilified for the rest of his career if the Supreme Court struck it down.

Obama just decrees that he won't enforce immigration laws, his friends are exempt from his laws, whether energy companies can drill or not off our shores.

The Democratic party is a juggernaut that is through destruction of anyone who stands in their way seizing control of health care, financial services, energy and is burying the rest with mandates and regulations.

And that is me as a citizen. As a business owner, the Federal government is even more belligerent and despotic than it's ever been. And they don't use Vaseline.

If that's not tyranny to you, what would it take?

What's tyrannical are plutocracy and aristocracy.

If a majority of Americans agreed with you, Obama would be gone. What you are trying to do is to impose your minority misinformation on the majority. That’s tyranny.

That's why democracy is propaganda proof. There is typically not a majority of suckers.

 

[PMZ]

More Republican irresponsibility. Never solve a problem. Avoid even thinking about them. Fox tells us that Republicans are the smartest people on earth but everything that they touch turns to shit so run, run, run from anything that even could be a problem.

Comrade, your master claims that Republicans are rich and greedy, that they do not give the proletarians there "fair share."

Yet here you are aping the words that your master puts in your mouth that "everything they touch turns to shit." Can comrade Soros explain the contradiction of these claims?

If Republicans have all the money and hoard it in basements where they swim in gold coins, then does this not mean they are successful and that what they touch turns to gold?

When liberals pulling us into the future have to fight conservatives pulling us back to the past at every turn progress is slowed and made more costly but human beings who think for themselves are the same ones that overcome obstacles.

What about you communists who try and pull us back to 1917 and the gulags of the Stalinist state?

The future will not be denied.

Good thing - since you communists are a relic of an evil past.

Sounds like a Hitler speech. Was it?

 

[kaz]

I hesitate to call Obamunism "tyranny." While the Obamunists are authoritarian and show utter contempt for the Constitution, they have not attempted dissolved congress, blockaded the Supreme Court, or ordered the arrest or the Chief Justice - all of which Abraham Lincoln did. I see that the Obamunists are on the ROAD to tyranny, and that it is they end game; but we ain't there yet - and with perseverance, never will be.

They trample on our Constitutional rights

The GOP majority in the House was blown away and stripped of it's Constitutional power to have a say in the budget because of a PR lynching orchestrated by the Democratic party and carried out by the liberal media.

John Roberts was intimidated into changing his vote to uphold Obamacare by knowing he would be vilified for the rest of his career if the Supreme Court struck it down.

Obama just decrees that he won't enforce immigration laws, his friends are exempt from his laws, whether energy companies can drill or not off our shores.

The Democratic party is a juggernaut that is through destruction of anyone who stands in their way seizing control of health care, financial services, energy and is burying the rest with mandates and regulations.

And that is me as a citizen. As a business owner, the Federal government is even more belligerent and despotic than it's ever been. And they don't use Vaseline.

If that's not tyranny to you, what would it take?

What's tyrannical are plutocracy and aristocracy.

If a majority of Americans agreed with you, Obama would be gone. What you are trying to do is to impose your minority misinformation on the majority. That’s tyranny.

That's why democracy is propaganda proof. There is typically not a majority of suckers.

I'm imposing zero on you. I'm requiring you to do nothing. You believe that my resisting you imposing your will on me is imposing my will on you. Typical Bolshevik rhetoric.

 

[kaz]

What does ''right" mean to you?

Sorry, my bad. You never admitted you were wrong before, so I took it as sarcasm.

What was I wrong about?

Workers and customers are what both you and I said the were but the two groups are mostly the same people.

The one good idea that Henry Ford had was the realization that the people who built Fords were the same people who bought them. He went against all capitalist advice and started paying them $5 a day and sales skyrocketed making him wealthy.

Real evidence showing that the oversimplified, black and white capitalist platitudes recited here are nothing more than that.

Business brainwashing.

Business owners pay workers, yet the workers still own what they produce, we don't. But if government pays workers, government owns what they produce because government is the people. I'd say you can't make this shit up, and you can't because Marx already did.

And "I" am the one who's brainwashed. This is your 15 minutes of fame, but you're getting tired. We both like Marx, but I like Groucho and you like Karl.

 

[PMZ]

Personally I just thought it came from being a moral, responsible human being. You apparently don't think so. So explain to me why you or any other able bodied person, DO have the right to make someone else responsible for you having enough to live on.

Is your question, as a moral, responsible human being, why do people live cooperatively and collaboratively?

I was always taught that it's because we're moral, responsible human beings, and not monkeys.

No. The question is, why is it you think you have the right to make someone else responsible for you having a enough to live on?

Because humanity solves problems. Not merely and meekly accepts them.

And the human experience has shown that solving problems requires cooperation, collaboration, education, responsibility and accountability.

 

[dcraelin]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

 

[RKMBrown]

Is your question, as a moral, responsible human being, why do people live cooperatively and collaboratively?

I was always taught that it's because we're moral, responsible human beings, and not monkeys.

No. The question is, why is it you think you have the right to make someone else responsible for you having a enough to live on?

Because humanity solves problems. Not merely and meekly accepts them.

And the human experience has shown that solving problems requires cooperation, collaboration, education, responsibility and accountability.

Ayup, and democrats never cooperate on anything except theft, only collaborate only with like minded people, only believe in a backwards education, take absolutely no responsibility for anything, and never ever take accountability into account except to shift it onto others.

 

[RKMBrown]

The myth that people who gamble on equity prices are responsible owners of corporations.

WTF is your problem ass hole?

It's none of your blanking business whether owners are responsible with their property or not, it's their blanking property not yours you communist piece of shit.

More Republican irresponsibility. Never solve a problem. Avoid even thinking about them. Fox tells us that Republicans are the smartest people on earth but everything that they touch turns to shit so run, run, run from anything that even could be a problem.

When liberals pulling us into the future have to fight conservatives pulling us back to the past at every turn progress is slowed and made more costly but human beings who think for themselves are the same ones that overcome obstacles.

The future will not be denied.

You are a liar. Just more troll dung.

 

[PMZ]

Sorry, my bad. You never admitted you were wrong before, so I took it as sarcasm.

What was I wrong about?

Workers and customers are what both you and I said the were but the two groups are mostly the same people.

The one good idea that Henry Ford had was the realization that the people who built Fords were the same people who bought them. He went against all capitalist advice and started paying them $5 a day and sales skyrocketed making him wealthy.

Real evidence showing that the oversimplified, black and white capitalist platitudes recited here are nothing more than that.

Business brainwashing.

Business owners pay workers, yet the workers still own what they produce, we don't. But if government pays workers, government owns what they produce because government is the people. I'd say you can't make this shit up, and you can't because Marx already did.

And "I" am the one who's brainwashed. This is your 15 minutes of fame, but you're getting tired. We both like Marx, but I like Groucho and you like Karl.

The group that you label ''owners'', Adolf, own the means of production, which, by themselves are worthless.

A corporation is an organization of workers that uses means to create wealth by their work, and to distribute and sell the wealth that they create to other people just like themselves. In fact, often, actually themselves. That's called a virtuous cycle. Everybody benefits.

If their goods and services are superior, and create higher demand than can be supplied, the corporation and everybody in it should prosper. If not, as they say, everybody goes back to the drawing boards for another try.

When there are many such corporations being successful, and sharing the consequences of that success among the people who created it, the whole economy benefits. More workers, higher pay, more consumption.

Let's say that there's a corporation with a superior product but a tyrannical organization that funnels the success to the owner of the means, instead of the creators of the value. There is no virtuous cycle. The economy does not benefit.

The reason why liberalism results in growth and conservatism results in shrinkage.

 

[PMZ]

It's none of your blanking business whether owners are responsible with their property or not, it's their blanking property not yours you communist piece of shit.

More Republican irresponsibility. Never solve a problem. Avoid even thinking about them. Fox tells us that Republicans are the smartest people on earth but everything that they touch turns to shit so run, run, run from anything that even could be a problem.

When liberals pulling us into the future have to fight conservatives pulling us back to the past at every turn progress is slowed and made more costly but human beings who think for themselves are the same ones that overcome obstacles.

The future will not be denied.

You are a liar. Just more troll dung.

And you are an idiot with a profound aversion to thinking and a thugs instinct for demeaning everybody who's not you.

 

[PMZ]

No. The question is, why is it you think you have the right to make someone else responsible for you having a enough to live on?

Because humanity solves problems. Not merely and meekly accepts them.

And the human experience has shown that solving problems requires cooperation, collaboration, education, responsibility and accountability.

Ayup, and democrats never cooperate on anything except theft, only collaborate only with like minded people, only believe in a backwards education, take absolutely no responsibility for anything, and never ever take accountability into account except to shift it onto others.

Breaking "news" from Fox.

 

[RKMBrown]

More Republican irresponsibility. Never solve a problem. Avoid even thinking about them. Fox tells us that Republicans are the smartest people on earth but everything that they touch turns to shit so run, run, run from anything that even could be a problem.

When liberals pulling us into the future have to fight conservatives pulling us back to the past at every turn progress is slowed and made more costly but human beings who think for themselves are the same ones that overcome obstacles.

The future will not be denied.

You are a liar. Just more troll dung.

And you are an idiot with a profound aversion to thinking and a thugs instinct for demeaning everybody who's not you.

You are the common criminal that wants to steal the assets of business owners for your own ill-gotten gains you piece of shit.

 

[PMZ]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

See the picture? Those wealthy white males are called the founders. What they founded, all defined in a written document, was an aristocracy of wealthy white males, which was also a republic as they couldn't agree on royalty. They did the aristocracy thing because they believed themselves to be superior human beings.

But they did recognize that times change. So they allowed the governed to ammend their product.

We did over several wars and 200 years. We changed the aristocracy of wealthy white males to a democracy of everyone.

Is this a news to you?

 

[PMZ]

You are a liar. Just more troll dung.

And you are an idiot with a profound aversion to thinking and a thugs instinct for demeaning everybody who's not you.

You are the common criminal that wants to steal the assets of business owners for your own ill-gotten gains you piece of shit.

Criminal? What laws have I broken?

 

[bripat9643]

Another conservative icon. Avoid accountability. Avoid responsibility.
What's amazing would be anyone who would believe that a country would work based on irresponsible people with no accountability.

The peak of ignorance.

The government should hold him accountable for his crimes, the owners of the company should hold him accountable for his performance.

If it ain't Marxist, you don't even hear it, do you?

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

Why should he be "accountable" to anyone? It's his property, isn't it? It's not on loan from the government.

 

[bripat9643]

A whole lot of fire and police and military and health care professionals and parents and grandparents would disagree.

In fact, I would venture that most human beings would disagree.

If you want a real life demonstration, threaten one of my grandchildren.

We're not talking about attacking people. Not paying someone enough to live on is not an attack. Your employer doesn't owe you enough to live on. That is not the reason they pay you. They pay you based on the value of the skill you provide them. That might be enough to live on or more or it might not. At the end of the day you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what you need to survive.

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

It's basic logic. Explain how the mere fact of your birth imposes any obligations on me.

 

[Ame®icano]

You don't pay 31%....There is no 31% bracket.
Now, you expect all forms of income to be taxed at the same rate? That's ludicrous.
That money was taxed at the higher rate when it was earned. Are you implying that the federal government should get a second FULL bite at the apple just because someone decided to invest in a company through its stock offering? A company that without the investments of others that could not create the jobs that the investment capital provided?
And let's discuss all the people that have 401k's and those union workers who's pension funds are all invested in those very same firms?
Should the pensioner's allowance after he or she retires be taxed at the full rate as regular income? The 401k investor? The IRA saver?
Are you so pissed off at anyone who made some additional income for their future or to pay for a new home or a swimming pool, or to just live more comfortably, that you would rather see government tax the shit out of them and remove all incentive to save or invest?
IS that the kind of world in which you wish to live?
Damn the people! Give all the cash to the government, right genius?
Have you ever asked your parents( assuming they are still alive) or grandparents if they ever invested in GM or Coca Cola? If so, would you walk up to them and say, "I pay 31% and don't want some piece of shit like you paying 15% on capital gains and dividends."?....
Are you are now boiling mad as you shoot back with " that's different. They worked hard for their money!!"...? How would that be any different? Go ahead and try to explain that one.
Now you can curse like a drunken sailor at me.
Meanwhile your premise of full double taxation goes nowhere.

31% of my last paycheck was deducted from the gross.

Since I have no medical, it was all government related deductions.

And how much of that was FICA?

 

[bripat9643]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

See the picture? Those wealthy white males are called the founders. What they founded, all defined in a written document, was an aristocracy of wealthy white males, which was also a republic as they couldn't agree on royalty. They did the aristocracy thing because they believed themselves to be superior human beings.

But they did recognize that times change. So they allowed the governed to ammend their product.

We did over several wars and 200 years. We changed the aristocracy of wealthy white males to a democracy of everyone.

Is this a news to you?

You just proved you don't know what an aristocracy is. Under British rule, the aristocracy was governed by a different set of laws than the common folk. The Founders setup a government where everyone was subject to the same laws. They abolished the aristocracy. They didn't create one.

Your definition of "aristocracy" is any country were some people earn more than others. That's all it is.

 

[Ame®icano]

That would actually depend on the definition of 'income' and by definition, I mean Supreme Court rulings.

Capital gains and dividends are taxed at 15% and should be taxed at 25%.

In addition, they make up the lions share of annual income for the over $250K crowd.

It would be nice if you would explain what the "lions share" is.