[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Ame®icano]

I don't care what the bullshit tax rate says on paper. The effective tax rate is the problem. The middle class pays the largest percent of their income in taxes. The rich pay lower effective tax rates and are therefore subsidized by the middle class. If you post something stupid like the rich pay the majority of this countries tax then you are clearly to retarded to understand tax subsidies & how they unleveled the playing field. Payroll taxes only penalize the middle class. Business fire the over taxed middle class US workers to maximize profit by hiring lower taxed labor in other countries. The rich do not pay payroll taxes above $100k. They also only pay the cut rate dividend income rate & not full tax earned income tax rate. Total effective tax rate must be the same top to bottom or the tax code is redistributing wealth to the rich. Because all money & investment flows to where it is taxed less & treated the best. That is why the rich have all the money & pay the most tax, but lower effective tax rate. Trickle up economics is what we have here in the USA. That shit needs to end A.S.A.P.

I went to a fine restaurant.

The meal for my wife and I cost 10% of my wages for the week.

The man at the third table down drove a Bentley. If his meal was $300 as mine was, he was only paying 2% of his weekly wage.

So should the restaurant be required to charge a percentage of income, rather than a price for the meal, just to be fair?

Trickle through stupidity is the basis of the left.

No, restaurant sells the product to those who can pay for it. If it hurts your wallet (or ego) to eat there, don't eat there. Or earn more...

 

[kaz]

A corporation is an organization of workers that uses means to create wealth by their work, and to distribute and sell the wealth that they create to other people just like themselves. In fact, often, actually themselves. That's called a virtuous cycle. Everybody benefits.

If their goods and services are superior, and create higher demand than can be supplied, the corporation and everybody in it should prosper. If not, as they say, everybody goes back to the drawing boards for another try.

When there are many such corporations being successful, and sharing the consequences of that success among the people who created it, the whole economy benefits. More workers, higher pay, more consumption.

Let's say that there's a corporation with a superior product but a tyrannical organization that funnels the success to the owner of the means, instead of the creators of the value. There is no virtuous cycle. The economy does not benefit.

The reason why liberalism results in growth and conservatism results in shrinkage.

Wow, that's amazing business analysis. I wish you'd been one of my professors when I got my MBA at Michigan. Having spent my career in management, management consulting and owning my own businesses and making a lot of money for my clients and myself doing it, things could have turned out really differently for me if I'd known this.

 

[PMZ]

A corporation is an organization of workers that uses means to create wealth by their work, and to distribute and sell the wealth that they create to other people just like themselves. In fact, often, actually themselves. That's called a virtuous cycle. Everybody benefits.

If their goods and services are superior, and create higher demand than can be supplied, the corporation and everybody in it should prosper. If not, as they say, everybody goes back to the drawing boards for another try.

When there are many such corporations being successful, and sharing the consequences of that success among the people who created it, the whole economy benefits. More workers, higher pay, more consumption.

Let's say that there's a corporation with a superior product but a tyrannical organization that funnels the success to the owner of the means, instead of the creators of the value. There is no virtuous cycle. The economy does not benefit.

The reason why liberalism results in growth and conservatism results in shrinkage.

Wow, that's amazing business analysis. I wish you'd been one of my professors when I got my MBA at Michigan. Having spent my career in management, management consulting and owning my own businesses and making a lot of money for my clients and myself doing it, things could have turned out really differently for me if I'd known this.

Success to the lion is different than for his prey.

You apparently believe that making money is a sign of success. I don't.

There were many business consultants who got wealthy selling the idea to executives that they had a right to most of the wealth that the workers in their businesses created (tough sell, right?). And the means of that harvest was to send the jobs of those wealth creators overseas.

Massive executive bonuses, creating high unemployment. The Great Recession.

But if you got wealthy, it's all good, right?

 

[PMZ]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

See the picture? Those wealthy white males are called the founders. What they founded, all defined in a written document, was an aristocracy of wealthy white males, which was also a republic as they couldn't agree on royalty. They did the aristocracy thing because they believed themselves to be superior human beings.

But they did recognize that times change. So they allowed the governed to ammend their product.

We did over several wars and 200 years. We changed the aristocracy of wealthy white males to a democracy of everyone.

Is this a news to you?

You just proved you don't know what an aristocracy is. Under British rule, the aristocracy was governed by a different set of laws than the common folk. The Founders setup a government where everyone was subject to the same laws. They abolished the aristocracy. They didn't create one.

Your definition of "aristocracy" is any country were some people earn more than others. That's all it is.

Aristocracy is government by those who think themselves superior. That's what the founders then, and conservatives today, believe in.

Democracy is the biggest obstacle to conservative success in recreating what the founders wanted and we the people changed.

 

[PMZ]

We're not talking about attacking people. Not paying someone enough to live on is not an attack. Your employer doesn't owe you enough to live on. That is not the reason they pay you. They pay you based on the value of the skill you provide them. That might be enough to live on or more or it might not. At the end of the day you don't have the right to make anyone else responsible for what you need to survive.

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

It's basic logic. Explain how the mere fact of your birth imposes any obligations on me.

"Basic logic" is like 'common' sense and 'they say' and 'supposed to'.

An explanation for the inexplicable that makes what you want or believe acceptable to others.

Some people fall for it regularly. Me, never.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Sounds like a Hitler speech. Was it?

What's sad comrade, is this really is the best you can do. Well, you didn't become a communist because you're the best and brightest....

Still, you ducked the central premise;

Comrade, your master claims that Republicans are rich and greedy, that they do not give the proletarians there "fair share."

Yet here you are aping the words that your master puts in your mouth that "everything they touch turns to shit." Can comrade Soros explain the contradiction of these claims?

JakeStarkey is a leftist who pretends to be conservative for the purpose of demeaning conservatism. Are you actually a con who seeks to make the leftists look bad through your little troll act?

 

[PMZ]

The government should hold him accountable for his crimes, the owners of the company should hold him accountable for his performance.

If it ain't Marxist, you don't even hear it, do you?

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

Why should he be "accountable" to anyone? It's his property, isn't it? It's not on loan from the government.

As good an explanation as possible for Republican, we are exempt from all responsibility and accountability.

 

[Uncensored2008]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

IF he said that, which I highly doubt, he was a complete moron.

Distinguish between "monarchy" and "aristocracy" as forms of government? This is idiocy, since both are in fact classes of the governmental system known as "feudalism."

 

[bripat9643]

Is this from the Bible? Constitution? From God's lips direct to your ears? Wikipedia?

Oh I know. The fount of all knowledge, Fox News. Straight out of the Republican propaganda factory.

Good recital.

It's basic logic. Explain how the mere fact of your birth imposes any obligations on me.

"Basic logic" is like 'common' sense and 'they say' and 'supposed to'.

An explanation for the inexplicable that makes what you want or believe acceptable to others.

Some people fall for it regularly. Me, never.

I deliberately avoided using the term "common sense" because what the common people believe is so often dead wrong.

You avoided answering the question: How does the mere fact of your birth impose any obligations on me?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't care what the bullshit tax rate says on paper. The effective tax rate is the problem. The middle class pays the largest percent of their income in taxes. The rich pay lower effective tax rates and are therefore subsidized by the middle class. If you post something stupid like the rich pay the majority of this countries tax then you are clearly to retarded to understand tax subsidies & how they unleveled the playing field. Payroll taxes only penalize the middle class. Business fire the over taxed middle class US workers to maximize profit by hiring lower taxed labor in other countries. The rich do not pay payroll taxes above $100k. They also only pay the cut rate dividend income rate & not full tax earned income tax rate. Total effective tax rate must be the same top to bottom or the tax code is redistributing wealth to the rich. Because all money & investment flows to where it is taxed less & treated the best. That is why the rich have all the money & pay the most tax, but lower effective tax rate. Trickle up economics is what we have here in the USA. That shit needs to end A.S.A.P.

I went to a fine restaurant.

The meal for my wife and I cost 10% of my wages for the week.

The man at the third table down drove a Bentley. If his meal was $300 as mine was, he was only paying 2% of his weekly wage.

So should the restaurant be required to charge a percentage of income, rather than a price for the meal, just to be fair?

Trickle through stupidity is the basis of the left.

No, restaurant sells the product to those who can pay for it. If it hurts your wallet (or ego) to eat there, don't eat there. Or earn more...

One suspects that you may have missed the point...

 

[kaz]

Success to the lion is different than for his prey.

You apparently believe that making money is a sign of success. I don't.

There were many business consultants who got wealthy selling the idea to executives that they had a right to most of the wealth that the workers in their businesses created (tough sell, right?). And the means of that harvest was to send the jobs of those wealth creators overseas.

Massive executive bonuses, creating high unemployment. The Great Recession.

But if you got wealthy, it's all good, right?

This is the basic lie of Marxism about business. Actually you make money by focusing on your customers, not ignoring them. No business is successful following your shallow caricature of business and no management consultant is successful telling them to focus on themselves and ignore their customers. Businesses are designed around our customer requirements, not in spit of them. I live it every day. You mime Marxist dogma which has been translated for your into modern prose by Democrats. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying that doctors prescribe leeches. You're a tool

 

[bripat9643]

See the picture? Those wealthy white males are called the founders. What they founded, all defined in a written document, was an aristocracy of wealthy white males, which was also a republic as they couldn't agree on royalty. They did the aristocracy thing because they believed themselves to be superior human beings.

But they did recognize that times change. So they allowed the governed to ammend their product.

We did over several wars and 200 years. We changed the aristocracy of wealthy white males to a democracy of everyone.

You just proved you don't know what an aristocracy is. Under British rule, the aristocracy was governed by a different set of laws than the common folk. The Founders setup a government where everyone was subject to the same laws. They abolished the aristocracy. They didn't create one.

Your definition of "aristocracy" is any country were some people earn more than others. That's all it is.

Aristocracy is government by those who think themselves superior.

Wrong, nimrod. All politicians think they are superior, so that characteristic doesn't distinguish aristocracy from any other form of government. The explanation I gave is correct.

That's what the founders then, and conservatives today, believe in.

Liberals believe it more than anyone.

Democracy is the biggest obstacle to conservative success in recreating what the founders wanted and we the people changed.

That's true enough, but it has nothing to do with your delusions. The Founders tried to create a free country. The Dims are turning it into a socialist tyranny.

 

[kaz]

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

Why should he be "accountable" to anyone? It's his property, isn't it? It's not on loan from the government.

As good an explanation as possible for Republican, we are exempt from all responsibility and accountability.

Asking a Marxist to grasp private property is like asking a fish to grasp jogging.

 

[PMZ]

Success to the lion is different than for his prey.

You apparently believe that making money is a sign of success. I don't.

There were many business consultants who got wealthy selling the idea to executives that they had a right to most of the wealth that the workers in their businesses created (tough sell, right?). And the means of that harvest was to send the jobs of those wealth creators overseas.

Massive executive bonuses, creating high unemployment. The Great Recession.

But if you got wealthy, it's all good, right?

This is the basic lie of Marxism about business. Actually you make money by focusing on your customers, not ignoring them. No business is successful following your shallow caricature of business and no management consultant is successful telling them to focus on themselves and ignore their customers. Businesses are designed around our customer requirements, not in spit of them. I live it every day. You mime Marxist dogma which has been translated for your into modern prose by Democrats. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying that doctors prescribe leeches. You're a tool

You'll never find one word from me denying customer focus. You know that too, but had to find some excuse to call me Marxist.

Business is getting and maintaining customer focus by those that create and influence the products being sold.

 

[bripat9643]

What is the owner of the means of production that the workers create wealth using accountable for and to whom?

Why should he be "accountable" to anyone? It's his property, isn't it? It's not on loan from the government.

As good an explanation as possible for Republican, we are exempt from all responsibility and accountability.

We are responsible only for the obligations we choose to take on. When did a business owner choose to become responsible for making the economy grow?

 

[bripat9643]

Why should he be "accountable" to anyone? It's his property, isn't it? It's not on loan from the government.

As good an explanation as possible for Republican, we are exempt from all responsibility and accountability.

Asking a Marxist to grasp private property is like asking a fish to grasp jogging.

I like asking them questions that they can't answer without blowing up everything they believe.

 

[kaz]

Success to the lion is different than for his prey.

You apparently believe that making money is a sign of success. I don't.

There were many business consultants who got wealthy selling the idea to executives that they had a right to most of the wealth that the workers in their businesses created (tough sell, right?). And the means of that harvest was to send the jobs of those wealth creators overseas.

Massive executive bonuses, creating high unemployment. The Great Recession.

But if you got wealthy, it's all good, right?

This is the basic lie of Marxism about business. Actually you make money by focusing on your customers, not ignoring them. No business is successful following your shallow caricature of business and no management consultant is successful telling them to focus on themselves and ignore their customers. Businesses are designed around our customer requirements, not in spit of them. I live it every day. You mime Marxist dogma which has been translated for your into modern prose by Democrats. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying that doctors prescribe leeches. You're a tool

You'll never find one word from me denying customer focus. You know that too, but had to find some excuse to call me Marxist.

Business is getting and maintaining customer focus by those that create and influence the products being sold.

When I finance my business, buy the materials and then pay my employees to produce products and services, why do they then still own what was produced? Why when they sold me their time, did I in fact pay them and get nothing out of the deal?

Do you have an answer other than quoting the Communist Manifesto or is that pretty much it?

 

[kaz]

As good an explanation as possible for Republican, we are exempt from all responsibility and accountability.

Asking a Marxist to grasp private property is like asking a fish to grasp jogging.

I like asking them questions that they can't answer without blowing up everything they believe.

Yes, except they don't answer it. PMZ just starts ranting from the Manifesto as if he was addressing the point.

 

[bripat9643]

Asking a Marxist to grasp private property is like asking a fish to grasp jogging.

I like asking them questions that they can't answer without blowing up everything they believe.

Yes, except they don't answer it. PMZ just starts ranting from the Manifesto as if he was addressing the point.

I'll keep pestering him until he does answer it.

 

[dcraelin]

let me try this again,

in regard to Republic and Democracy

See the picture? Those wealthy white males are called the founders. What they founded, all defined in a written document, was an aristocracy of wealthy white males, which was also a republic as they couldn't agree on royalty. They did the aristocracy thing because they believed themselves to be superior human beings.

But they did recognize that times change. So they allowed the governed to ammend their product.

We did over several wars and 200 years. We changed the aristocracy of wealthy white males to a democracy of everyone.

Is this a news to you?

I dont know whats happening to my picture posts...cant u just copy and paste???? And I saw my second attempt on the board when I posted it but now it dont seem to be there.

anyway PMZ I think u misread it. Wilson equated Republics and Democracys, and said they mean either voting directly on issues or indirectly thru representatives.