Poll. Please Vote. Did You Have a Mother & Father in Your Life?

[80zephyr]

Remember, all the evidence you ignore.....we can still see it. Pretending none of it exists just demonstrates that your position is founded in willful ignorance

And of course, your insistence that we 'void' all same sex marriages doesn't do a thing to address what you consider the 'problem'. As same sex parents denied marriage are still same sex parents. All denying those parents marriage does is guarantee that their children never have married parents.

Which hurts those children and help no child.

See how that works? Your proposal is worse than useless.

No more so than yours.

On the contrary, the courts have gone into elaborate detail as to all the harms caused to children when you deny their parents marriage. And all the benefits to children when their parents are allowed to marry.

The benefits to those children make my proposal far better than 'useless'. Where as Sil can't even explain how denying marriage same sex parents helps their children. Or any child.

A set of married parents means a father and a mother. You only hurt a child by giving him a mockery of what he needs, in place of what he really needs.

Here are some of the harms caused to children when you deny their parents marriage:

And it humiliates tens of thousands of children now being raised by same-sex couples. The law in question makes it even more difficult for the children to understand the integrity and closeness of their own family and its concord with other families in their community and in their daily lives....

....DOMA also brings financial harm to children of samesex couples. It raises the cost of health care for families by taxing health benefits provided by employers to their workers’ same-sex spouses. And it denies or reduces benefits allowed to families upon the loss of a spouse and parent, benefits that are an integral part of family security.

Now, with some of the serious harms listed, tell us....how does denying marriage to same sex parents help their children?

Sil has never been able to give us any credible answer. And instead insists that they should be harmed. Perhaps you can do better.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

Mark

 

[Silhouette]

What if your choices are this couple...

Which one of those two gay men are going to sit the little baby girl (was she born out of one of their anuses?) down when she's a preteen and discuss with her all the nuances of menstruation? The only way a mother could/would advise her daughter?..childbirth? How to wade through hetero men for "the right one"?

Which one will be the actual mother to the child? Neither? So if those two are "married", they have stripped that little girl of a mother for life as a matter of newly binding contract. Well done, Obergefell.. Except that New York vs Ferber says that no adults can harm a child physically or psychologically in the course of their enjoying a civil right, real or invented last Summer and tacked onto the Constitution by 5 Justices legislating from the Bench..

Probably the one that has the most knowledge on the subject. Youre acting like male gynecologists dont exist.

Which male or female for that matter gynecologist has distinct knowledge of a family's matriarchal peculiar menstrual cycles (that vary quite widely) for a girl adopted by two men playing house? Only the girl's mother would have that unique advice. Just like there is some advice a boy cannot get from his mother, about his hormones and how to control urges and play nice when his gonads are trying to call the shots... That's where dad steps in.. Oh, but wait, a boy with two lesbians can't have a father...for life..

 

[EverCurious]

My folks divorced when I was 5, my mom was remarried when I was 7 and I was raised calling my step-father "Father" - in fact I still do today. Oddly I never had any trouble understanding or 'coping' with the fact that my step-father wasn't my bio father and it never mattered at all to me. Why exactly would it be 'unsettling' or 'difficult' for a child in a gay coupling to know that they're parents did not /actually/ conceive them?

Edit: also my mother never talked to me about jack shit but not "embarrassing" her. She never discussed menstruation, never talked about sex, none of that shit. Hell she couldn't even take time off work to teach me to cook. I turned out just fine - can burn water, but my boys know how to cook so it worked out heh

 

[80zephyr]

Another classic. Name a single church that has been forced to marry any couple, gay or otherwise, against their wishes? You can't b/c it hasn't and nor should it happen. Remember, Kim Davis isn't a church.

If present direction continues, then it will happen.

The line was crossed when bakers, photographers, and similar businesses were force by law to cater to disgusting homosexual mockeries of weddingsd.

The line was crossed when Christians were told that they didn't get to ignore the law because they suddenly discovered they were Christians when they were asked to bake a cake for a gay couple.

Christians have to follow the law like everyone else.

Then there is no freedom of religion, and America is dead.

Mark

 

[Skylar]

...when she's a preteen and discuss with her all the nuances of menstruation?

Hmmm, I can't wait to here what those are exactly? Who knew it was a secret thing men could not understand? As I remember, my mom had a pretty good understanding of how a penis worked.

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Nuances...particulars known to each matriarchal line. Women of different families have completely different cyclical flows and issues. Just like my farm females all have different cycles peculiar to their unique genetic lines. You didn't know that. You have just made my point.

So that would mean you're against anyone adopting girls then? Because they would be incapable of teaching your 'different cycles pecular to their unique genetic lines'.

If not, why not?

 

[Skylar]

Another classic. Name a single church that has been forced to marry any couple, gay or otherwise, against their wishes? You can't b/c it hasn't and nor should it happen. Remember, Kim Davis isn't a church.

If present direction continues, then it will happen.

The line was crossed when bakers, photographers, and similar businesses were force by law to cater to disgusting homosexual mockeries of weddingsd.

The line was crossed when Christians were told that they didn't get to ignore the law because they suddenly discovered they were Christians when they were asked to bake a cake for a gay couple.

Christians have to follow the law like everyone else.

Then there is no freedom of religion, and America is dead.

Mark

If Christians are subject to the law, there is no freedom of religion?

Are Muslims equally free from any civil law? Does Sharia trump civil law?

 

[Asclepias]

What if your choices are this couple...

Which one of those two gay men are going to sit the little baby girl (was she born out of one of their anuses?) down when she's a preteen and discuss with her all the nuances of menstruation? The only way a mother could/would advise her daughter?..childbirth? How to wade through hetero men for "the right one"?

Which one will be the actual mother to the child? Neither? So if those two are "married", they have stripped that little girl of a mother for life as a matter of newly binding contract. Well done, Obergefell.. Except that New York vs Ferber says that no adults can harm a child physically or psychologically in the course of their enjoying a civil right, real or invented last Summer and tacked onto the Constitution by 5 Justices legislating from the Bench..

Probably the one that has the most knowledge on the subject. Youre acting like male gynecologists dont exist.

Which male or female for that matter gynecologist has distinct knowledge of a family's matriarchal peculiar menstrual cycles (that vary quite widely) for a girl adopted by two men playing house? Only the girl's mother would have that unique advice. Just like there is some advice a boy cannot get from his mother, about his hormones and how to control urges and play nice when his gonads are trying to call the shots... That's where dad steps in.. Oh, but wait, a boy with two lesbians can't have a father...for life..

So now you dont want children to be adopted? How would a female/male couple adopting a female child know the family history?

 

[80zephyr]

It takes a man and a woman, a father and a mother, to create a child.

That is also what it takes to comprise a functional set of parents to that child.

Um, Bob....the capacity to conceive a child isn't what makes good parents. Loving, caring for, providing for and nurturing your child is what makes good parents. All of which a same sex couple can do and an opposite sex couple can do.

Not if you believe that a child needs both genders to have a balanced upbringing.

Mark

 

[Asclepias]

It takes a man and a woman, a father and a mother, to create a child.

That is also what it takes to comprise a functional set of parents to that child.

Um, Bob....the capacity to conceive a child isn't what makes good parents. Loving, caring for, providing for and nurturing your child is what makes good parents. All of which a same sex couple can do and an opposite sex couple can do.

Not if you believe that a child needs both genders to have a balanced upbringing.

Mark

Doesnt matter what you believe. Reality is much more credible.

 

[80zephyr]

My folks divorced when I was 5, my mom was remarried when I was 7 and I was raised calling my step-father "Father" - in fact I still do today. Oddly I never had any trouble understanding or 'coping' with the fact that my step-father wasn't my bio father and it never mattered at all to me. Why exactly would it be 'unsettling' or 'difficult' for a child in a gay coupling to know that they're parents did not /actually/ conceive them?

Edit: also my mother never talked to me about jack shit but not "embarrassing" her. She never discussed menstruation, never talked about sex, none of that shit. Hell she couldn't even take time off work to teach me to cook. I turned out just fine - can burn water, but my boys know how to cook so it worked out heh

According to the poll on this thread, you are a rarity. Do you agree?

Mark

 

[Silhouette]

Doesnt matter what you believe. Reality is much more credible.

And reality shows a huge section of Americans believe that both a mother and father are necessary to a child. That's what the poll says folks.

 

[80zephyr]

It takes a man and a woman, a father and a mother, to create a child.

That is also what it takes to comprise a functional set of parents to that child.

Um, Bob....the capacity to conceive a child isn't what makes good parents. Loving, caring for, providing for and nurturing your child is what makes good parents. All of which a same sex couple can do and an opposite sex couple can do.

Not if you believe that a child needs both genders to have a balanced upbringing.

Mark

Doesnt matter what you believe. Reality is much more credible.

You're right. Reality is much more credible. And reality created nature. And nature created the two genders so they could procreate.

Now, thats reality. Not some "made up" scenario devised by mankind.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Another classic. Name a single church that has been forced to marry any couple, gay or otherwise, against their wishes? You can't b/c it hasn't and nor should it happen. Remember, Kim Davis isn't a church.

If present direction continues, then it will happen.

The line was crossed when bakers, photographers, and similar businesses were force by law to cater to disgusting homosexual mockeries of weddingsd.

The line was crossed when Christians were told that they didn't get to ignore the law because they suddenly discovered they were Christians when they were asked to bake a cake for a gay couple.

Christians have to follow the law like everyone else.

Then there is no freedom of religion, and America is dead.

Mark

If Christians are subject to the law, there is no freedom of religion?

Are Muslims equally free from any civil law? Does Sharia trump civil law?

Sharia law is not the religion of Islam.

Bakers opposed baking cakes because they believe gay marriage to be a sin. If baking a cake is not a sin, then driving the get-away car for a robbery isn't a crime either, correct?

Mark

 

[Skylar]

What if your choices are this couple...

Which one of those two gay men are going to sit the little baby girl (was she born out of one of their anuses?) down when she's a preteen and discuss with her all the nuances of menstruation? The only way a mother could/would advise her daughter?..childbirth? How to wade through hetero men for "the right one"?

An aunt, grandmother, family friend, pastor, couch, mentor, etc can. You really need to read the Prince's Trust study. It demonstrates that what a child needs is a positive same sex role model....and there's nothing that requires it be a parent. The Prince's Trust has an extensive mentoring program for just this purpose.

And of course, how does denying these parents the right to marry help with any of these issues you've raised? As the courts have gone into elaborate detail how denying same sex marriage would hurt this little girl:

And it humiliates tens of thousands of children now being raised by same-sex couples. The law in question makes it even more difficult for the children to understand the integrity and closeness of their own family and its concord with other families in their community and in their daily lives...

....DOMA also brings financial harm to children of same-sex couples. It raises the cost of health care for families by taxing health benefits provided by employers to their workers’ same-sex spouses. And it denies or reduces benefits allowed to families upon the loss of a spouse and parent, benefits that are an integral part of family security.

How would denying marriage to her parents benefit her?

There's a reason you keep running from this cartoon simple question: because there is no such benefit. Only harm.....for tens of thousands of children.

Which one will be the actual mother to the child? Neither? So if those two are "married", they have stripped that little girl of a mother for life as a matter of newly binding contract. Well done, Obergefell.. Except that New York vs Ferber says that no adults can harm a child physically or psychologically in the course of their enjoying a civil right, real or invented last Summer and tacked onto the Constitution by 5 Justices legislating from the Bench..

Ferber never so much as mentions marriage. It was a case about kiddy porn. Which you know, but hope we don't.

And of course, the court found that denying marriage to same sex parents causes extensive harm to a child. So you ignore the findings of the Supreme Court and make up your own. But no court is going to ignore the findings of the Supreme Court and replace them with your imagination.

 

[Asclepias]

Doesnt matter what you believe. Reality is much more credible.

And reality shows a huge section of Americans believe that both a mother and father are necessary to a child. That's what the poll says folks.

And reality shows us thats not true as i pointed out before. Since the dawn of time children have been able to live without one or both parents no matter the sex. The only thing that is necessary is that there is someone, anyone around.

 

[mdk]

It takes a man and a woman, a father and a mother, to create a child.

That is also what it takes to comprise a functional set of parents to that child.

Um, Bob....the capacity to conceive a child isn't what makes good parents. Loving, caring for, providing for and nurturing your child is what makes good parents. All of which a same sex couple can do and an opposite sex couple can do.

Not if you believe that a child needs both genders to have a balanced upbringing.

Mark

You're free to believe that all you wish but you still can't stop gay people from raising their biological and adoptive children.

 

[Asclepias]

It takes a man and a woman, a father and a mother, to create a child.

That is also what it takes to comprise a functional set of parents to that child.

Um, Bob....the capacity to conceive a child isn't what makes good parents. Loving, caring for, providing for and nurturing your child is what makes good parents. All of which a same sex couple can do and an opposite sex couple can do.

Not if you believe that a child needs both genders to have a balanced upbringing.

Mark

Doesnt matter what you believe. Reality is much more credible.

You're right. Reality is much more credible. And reality created nature. And nature created the two genders so they could procreate.

Now, thats reality. Not some "made up" scenario devised by mankind.

Mark

I was with you until you deflected.

 

[80zephyr]

Christians have to follow the law like everyone else.

The Constitution is the highest law, in this nation, and the First Amendment is part of it. You cannot advocate such blatant disregard for it, and still credibly speak of any rule of law.

The 1st amendment doesn't mean that Christians or any religion can ignore every law. It never has. You're describing Christian Sharia, where any Christian can ignore any law they wish.

That's not our system or law.

Says who? If a conscientious Christian cant live his life according to his religion, then the 1st Amendment is less than worthless because he basically has to "drop out" of society, forcing him to become a second class citizen.

Mark

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Again, same sex parents don't magically become opposite sex parents if you deny them marriage.

Nor does allowing them to “marry” and adopt children. All that does is to perpetrate a destructive fraud that will prove harmful to the children that are victimized by it.

I'll ask you, for the third time......how does denying marriage to same sex parents help their children?

Not denying marriage. Denying an insane fraud. There is no such thing as “same sex marriage”, and efforts to create it will never be equal to genuine marriage.

My Dad was killed for nothing in the skies over Vietnam and my mother went batshit crazy when I was 8 so I might as well not have had one

Sometimes no parent would have been better than one or both. Something Sil doesn't get.

Well, society and child psychologists agree that children do best with both a mother and father. The poll reflects that. So it's not just me saying it. You are facing a 90%+ majority paint..

 

[Asclepias]

Christians have to follow the law like everyone else.

The Constitution is the highest law, in this nation, and the First Amendment is part of it. You cannot advocate such blatant disregard for it, and still credibly speak of any rule of law.

The 1st amendment doesn't mean that Christians or any religion can ignore every law. It never has. You're describing Christian Sharia, where any Christian can ignore any law they wish.

That's not our system or law.

Says who? If a conscientious Christian cant live his life according to his religion, then the 1st Amendment is less than worthless because he basically has to "drop out" of society, forcing him to become a second class citizen.

Mark

He can always move to another country then. The 1rst amendment doesnt stop you from being a christian.