Post Office to stop Saturday Delivery

[candycorn]

Oh please. Now you're just making excuses. And no it isn't usual. A money losing business for that matter is unsustainable. Most new small businesses do lose money in their first couple of years. After that, turn a profit or they die.
Same with any business. You know nothing of business. Shit you haven't graduated beyond your TV remote.
I neither stated nor implied the USPS was "the government"...So what the fuck are you trying to sell?
The pension issue is nonsense. The loss of First Class volume IS the issue.
The USPS is set up for failure because it must kowtow to a public employee union that saddles the USPS with costs that are not sustainable.
The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.
So now you are going to scream "they worked for that"....No, the union extorted it from the USPS.
Right, the USPS like any other business struggles with the cost of benefits. Other businesses simply do what they must to control those costs. The USPS has to unconditionally accept the higher costs because of the shackles of the Union.
-" Once people or businesses adapt to cut postage costs, there is little reason to change what they are doing during better times."...
I will attempt to decipher this....I am guessing individuals and businesses have sought other means to move their parcels and letters. Um YEAH....That's called competition in the marketplace. This has ZILCH to do with any recession. The fact is we do less and lass with paper. In fact I get NO paper bills. NONE. Most businesses do most everything electronically. It's called technological advances.
One of the reasons why important papers that must be hand delivered are no longer sent via US Mail is because the process takes too long.
For example, if an attorney in a business deal requires the prospectus get to a prospective buyer or seller quickly and confidentially, he or she will use a service that not only gets the package to the recipient quickly but also ensures the object is delivered by hand and ON TIME. Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS. That is plain and simple.
Own the "post office"? What the fuck are you babbling about?
Rednecks? Oh yes all conservatives are rednecks. And you libs are all elitist overstuffed pompous pricks.

The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.

you can not bank unlimited Vacation time......and you cannot continue collecting when you retire......when you retire,you retire....if you have unused sick leave that you have "banked"....you will only get a percentage of it and any unused vac time that you have you get paid for it.....

No, the union extorted it from the USPS.

the Union extorted very little in my time there.....just about every Contract went into Binding Arbitration.....both sides won and lost.....

Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS.

you would be surprised....we get asked by them if so and so lives here....did they move....is this house vacant....we deliver A LOT of Parcels for both of them that they dont want to deliver...not cost effective....so they pay us to do it....nice huh?....and talking to the businesses and people on the route.....it seems like we all fuck up....but everyone seems to like all three of the services the same.....some don't like one or the other.....some only go with one.....one thing the Letter Carrier has over the other guys is the people see us everyday and we get to know who are customers are.....the other guys only if you happen to get a delivery and its sign here...see you later....i had 980 deliveries on my last route and i bet i knew 70% of the people who lived on it and they knew me....

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

So how fast should a letter from Miami to New York move for $0.45 cents?

Are you saying it should cost whatever it would take to move it in 1 day? In two days? In three days?

Like everything else, we need to decide how much government we want and calibrate taxes to pay for them.

I think that the USPS has way too much infrastructure in place for it's volume. You seem to either want MORE infrastructure to move the mail faster or raise the prices to support the existing model.

The winning position, in my view, is that the USPS fulfill it's constitutional role to serve the entire nation but, where possible, partner with those who do it better in some cases--USPS, Federal Express, Central Freight, Saia, JB Hunt, DHL, whomever--but still do what they would do better, serve the rural areas.

Give them 10 years and phase out where you need to phase out and ramp up where you need to ramp up.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't care if I don't get mail on Saturday. It's 90% junk anyway.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oh please. Now you're just making excuses. And no it isn't usual. A money losing business for that matter is unsustainable. Most new small businesses do lose money in their first couple of years. After that, turn a profit or they die.
Same with any business. You know nothing of business. Shit you haven't graduated beyond your TV remote.
I neither stated nor implied the USPS was "the government"...So what the fuck are you trying to sell?
The pension issue is nonsense. The loss of First Class volume IS the issue.
The USPS is set up for failure because it must kowtow to a public employee union that saddles the USPS with costs that are not sustainable.
The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.
So now you are going to scream "they worked for that"....No, the union extorted it from the USPS.
Right, the USPS like any other business struggles with the cost of benefits. Other businesses simply do what they must to control those costs. The USPS has to unconditionally accept the higher costs because of the shackles of the Union.
-" Once people or businesses adapt to cut postage costs, there is little reason to change what they are doing during better times."...
I will attempt to decipher this....I am guessing individuals and businesses have sought other means to move their parcels and letters. Um YEAH....That's called competition in the marketplace. This has ZILCH to do with any recession. The fact is we do less and lass with paper. In fact I get NO paper bills. NONE. Most businesses do most everything electronically. It's called technological advances.
One of the reasons why important papers that must be hand delivered are no longer sent via US Mail is because the process takes too long.
For example, if an attorney in a business deal requires the prospectus get to a prospective buyer or seller quickly and confidentially, he or she will use a service that not only gets the package to the recipient quickly but also ensures the object is delivered by hand and ON TIME. Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS. That is plain and simple.
Own the "post office"? What the fuck are you babbling about?
Rednecks? Oh yes all conservatives are rednecks. And you libs are all elitist overstuffed pompous pricks.

The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.

you can not bank unlimited Vacation time......and you cannot continue collecting when you retire......when you retire,you retire....if you have unused sick leave that you have "banked"....you will only get a percentage of it and any unused vac time that you have you get paid for it.....

No, the union extorted it from the USPS.

the Union extorted very little in my time there.....just about every Contract went into Binding Arbitration.....both sides won and lost.....

Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS.

you would be surprised....we get asked by them if so and so lives here....did they move....is this house vacant....we deliver A LOT of Parcels for both of them that they dont want to deliver...not cost effective....so they pay us to do it....nice huh?....and talking to the businesses and people on the route.....it seems like we all fuck up....but everyone seems to like all three of the services the same.....some don't like one or the other.....some only go with one.....one thing the Letter Carrier has over the other guys is the people see us everyday and we get to know who are customers are.....the other guys only if you happen to get a delivery and its sign here...see you later....i had 980 deliveries on my last route and i bet i knew 70% of the people who lived on it and they knew me....

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

then you heard wrong.....because you cant do that.....the only way he could collect it in regular checks is if he went out on some kind of sick leave BEFORE he retired and used it up....and then retired.....and lots of people do this,they will get the knee that they fucked up carrying operated on or some other injury taken care of.......otherwise a percentage of it is what he will get incorporated into his retirement as time served.....the rest of what you said i have no problems with.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

That dog no longer hunts. It's horse crap response.
If the law were reversed you people along with the USPS unions would go ballistic.

all the Unions are against that "law" ........

How is it possible that the union would accept their member's pension system being essentially defunded....Assuming the hacks on here got their way and the pension "law" were repealed. I am going on pure logic here.

everything i have been seeing said its over funded......thats the whole reason why the PO and the Unions say this Payment is no longer needed.....anyone hired after 1983 is Social Security.....i am one of the last groups of guys from the Civil Service....and we were already told ours was paid for years ago.....and this was from the OPM....

 

[Care4all]

I definitely care if USPS does not pick up my packages to customers on Saturday....

I ship about 200-300 packages a year, should double that this year, and USPS is by far more reliable and cost effective than UPS and FEDX for light packages!

Shoot, USPS even delivers my UPS packages received....

my only complaint is the HUGE HUGE HUGE rate hike on International shipments this past month....in some cases my shipping costs went up OVER 130%....IT NOW COSTS MORE TO SHIP my small items to Canada than the item itself....and THAT is going to KILL my international business and the business of millions upon millions of other online retailers....

 

[Seawytch]

I will be interested to see what my state legislature comes up with regarding Vote by Mail ballots. Close to 50% of CA voters vote by mail. I'd like to see a change that would allow us to accept postmarked ballots.

 

[Papawx3]

I wouldn't care of the USPS stopped all deliveries. I do virtually everything online anymore anyway, so all ever get in the mail now is junk, and it immediately goes either into the trash can or my shredder.
I have two of my business vendors who insist on mailing me invoices and me mailing them checks. I told them both that until they upgrade their billing/payment systems, I won't be using them anymore.

Hence my response to the OP is, "Who cares?"

 

[Samson]

The fact is the USPS is a poorly run business. It runs a deficit for many reasons.
that definitely is one of the reasons......middle management especially.....
One is the USPS has too many people employed who do not directly handle or process mail.
yep....and they make decisions that impact everyone and so many times they make things worse.....but they have to try and "justify" their existence...
The USPS does not charge enough to send pieces of mail over long distances.
Mail delivery charges should be applied to the distance the piece travels.
Bulk mail rates should be eliminated. All who use the service should pay full price. Advertising pieces should be charged an additional fee to use the USPS. After all the advertiser benefits from the USPS, they should PAY the USPS a little more for the service.

the PO cant do shit about this.....the Postal Board of Governors then the Postal Rate Commission and finally Congress and who knows how many committees to get things changed...

Don't I recall our having this discussion...de ja vue all over again.

The problem with all Postal Services was the last time we chatted, and still is, IT IS OBSOLETE.

DITTO AMTRACK.

DITTO many weapon systems and military posts.

Ditto most Civil Services that have no incentive to ever improvise or innovate ANYTHING.

tell that to the Millions of people who use the USPS over the other guys Sam.....until there are no first class mailings......you are wrong.....and what does any of this have to do with my post you quoted?....

You said the USPS is a poorly run business.

My contention is that it won't matter how well a business is run, if it offers services and products that very few people want, or need.

The fact that "Millions" or even one person "uses the USPS over the other guys" is irrelevant. I'm certain someone will always need a buggy whip too.

The fact that other guys exist is what is relevant. How is competition able to thrive despite the monopoly the USPS has on "first class" mailings?

Because first class mailings are OBSOLETE, not because of some competitor's offer.

Because of email, online shopping, and electronic bill payment, and a host of technology that make the USPS irrelevant.

 

[Samson]

I definitely care if USPS does not pick up my packages to customers on Saturday....

I ship about 200-300 packages a year, should double that this year, and USPS is by far more reliable and cost effective than UPS and FEDX for light packages!

Shoot, USPS even delivers my UPS packages received....

my only complaint is the HUGE HUGE HUGE rate hike on International shipments this past month....in some cases my shipping costs went up OVER 130%....IT NOW COSTS MORE TO SHIP my small items to Canada than the item itself....and THAT is going to KILL my international business and the business of millions upon millions of other online retailers....

Sorry about your business expenses increaseing for international shipments.

Why do you think they have gone up?

 

[Harry Dresden]

I definitely care if USPS does not pick up my packages to customers on Saturday....

I ship about 200-300 packages a year, should double that this year, and USPS is by far more reliable and cost effective than UPS and FEDX for light packages!

Shoot, USPS even delivers my UPS packages received....

my only complaint is the HUGE HUGE HUGE rate hike on International shipments this past month....in some cases my shipping costs went up OVER 130%....IT NOW COSTS MORE TO SHIP my small items to Canada than the item itself....and THAT is going to KILL my international business and the business of millions upon millions of other online retailers....

dont forget the price you pay reflects what the postage is in the Country you are sending it too for them to deliver it.....i saw a International Postal Bulletin saying many Countries have raised their rates...some alot....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Don't I recall our having this discussion...de ja vue all over again.

The problem with all Postal Services was the last time we chatted, and still is, IT IS OBSOLETE.

DITTO AMTRACK.

DITTO many weapon systems and military posts.

Ditto most Civil Services that have no incentive to ever improvise or innovate ANYTHING.

tell that to the Millions of people who use the USPS over the other guys Sam.....until there are no first class mailings......you are wrong.....and what does any of this have to do with my post you quoted?....

You said the USPS is a poorly run business.

My contention is that it won't matter how well a business is run, if it offers services and products that very few people want, or need.

The fact that "Millions" or even one person "uses the USPS over the other guys" is irrelevant. I'm certain someone will always need a buggy whip too.

The fact that other guys exist is what is relevant. How is competition able to thrive despite the monopoly the USPS has on "first class" mailings?

Because first class mailings are OBSOLETE, not because of some competitor's offer.

Because of email, online shopping, and electronic bill payment, and a host of technology that make the USPS irrelevant.

You said the USPS is a poorly run business.
yes it is....when they have had REAL business people running it it did pretty dam good like in the 90's.....and parts of the 80's....

it aint irrelevant Sam if millions are still using it.....including all the other delivery services....a company that makes around 70 billion dollars a year doesn't sound irrelevant to me....

 

[thereisnospoon]

The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.

you can not bank unlimited Vacation time......and you cannot continue collecting when you retire......when you retire,you retire....if you have unused sick leave that you have "banked"....you will only get a percentage of it and any unused vac time that you have you get paid for it.....

No, the union extorted it from the USPS.

the Union extorted very little in my time there.....just about every Contract went into Binding Arbitration.....both sides won and lost.....

Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS.

you would be surprised....we get asked by them if so and so lives here....did they move....is this house vacant....we deliver A LOT of Parcels for both of them that they dont want to deliver...not cost effective....so they pay us to do it....nice huh?....and talking to the businesses and people on the route.....it seems like we all fuck up....but everyone seems to like all three of the services the same.....some don't like one or the other.....some only go with one.....one thing the Letter Carrier has over the other guys is the people see us everyday and we get to know who are customers are.....the other guys only if you happen to get a delivery and its sign here...see you later....i had 980 deliveries on my last route and i bet i knew 70% of the people who lived on it and they knew me....

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

You don't know the first god damn thing you're talking about.

I mailed a USPS standard sized under 1 ounce letter to myself during the course of my job(had to mail it to myself, couldn't just take it. Proper procedure), and I was surprised it arrived the next day. That's not to say that's standard, but it happens often enough.

USPS parcels also always seem to arrive sooner than FedEX and UPS Parcels, usually even beating the expected delivery date.

The Postal Service will actually deliver letters ahead of their scheduled delivery date. You cannot get that with FedEX and UPS. If you have a package scheduled to arrive February 17th by FedEX and UPS, and you track it... so often you'll find that it's in your city able to be delivered, but it just gets held at the facility until the proper date. That shit doesn't happen with the USPS.

That's not to say USPS is the best and without flaw, and that FedEX and UPS are terrible. Far from it. What I am saying however, is that your mocking of USPS speed is total fucking bullshit.

"Snail Mail" isn't strictly applicable to the USPS. FedEX and UPS are also technically considered Snail Mail. Letters, parcels, delivered by courier via physical transportation means instead of electronic means. THAT is what Snail Mail means. FedEX and UPS are no faster or more reliable than USPS. If you want Overnight, all three carriers can provide that for you.

The USPS isn't perfect and things can be improved, but the notion that it's doing everything wrong is absolutely bullshit. The USPS has a proven track record of doing a great many things right. It's an incredible feat of engineering, logistics and sheer commitment, the service the USPS provides.

Your solution is to fucking gut that and get rid of it entirely? Fucking please. All that demonstrates is that you have ulterior motives. If you can't acknowledge the brilliance of what the USPS can accomplish, you're ignorant. 550 million pieces of mail daily(EDIT: actually that number is outdated. It's 660 million or more now). FedEX and UPS can't even come close to touching that. FedEX itself only delivers about 3.4 million. I believe the number on UPS is slightly smaller, more around 2 million(EDIT: these numbers are actually old too. Between them it's about 25 million total). Do you not see the extreme differences there? The number of parcels, not counting letters or flats that the postal service delivers every day dwarfs FedEX, UPS and every single other delivery agency in the country by a large margin.

And you think the solution is to just dump that? Scrap it because it's doing things wrong and poorly? You don't think the solution is to revitalize it and make it work in a more efficient, more cost effective way? You are an ignorant little prick who doesn't understand the full scale of operation that the USPS is compared to any of the other major shipping services. It would take 100+ additional FedEX's easily to fill in the void that the USPS would leave behind. FedEX and UPS are small fry in comparison.

Yeah..Ok, If the USPS is so "brilliant" then why does the service bleed money?.
And once again, you limit your focus on UPS and Fed Ex on what these companies do NOW.
You ignore the pos...no, the inevitability that there exists very smart people who are indeed capable of producing a better, stronger, and FAR MORE cost efficient means of moving what we refer to as "the mail".
Yes, when a business has tried numerous times to "fix" itself only to fail at every turn, it is time to choose another path.
The scale of the USPS operation does not concern me. It is the failure of the service to perform functions on time and within a budget.
BTW genius, I have already stated numerous times in this thread that the USPS requires a revamping of operations to make it profitable. I got flamed for that. An OP cursed at me while stating that "some businesses just will lose money". In effect the OP was suggesting we just leave the USPS alone to continue down its current path of failure.
BTW, you decided to make this personal with insults directed at me. Clearly you've a personal stake in this and of course the insults are proof you've run your course in debate.
In conclusion. It is my hope you slip and fall on to a pile of thumbtacks.
Question: Why the anger?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The rules are idiotic. A postal worker can bank unlimited sick and vacation time over the period of their career and upon retirement can continue to be paid regularly until those are exhausted. Meanwhile they continue to collect their pension.

you can not bank unlimited Vacation time......and you cannot continue collecting when you retire......when you retire,you retire....if you have unused sick leave that you have "banked"....you will only get a percentage of it and any unused vac time that you have you get paid for it.....

No, the union extorted it from the USPS.

the Union extorted very little in my time there.....just about every Contract went into Binding Arbitration.....both sides won and lost.....

Fed Ex and UPS do a better job than the USPS.

you would be surprised....we get asked by them if so and so lives here....did they move....is this house vacant....we deliver A LOT of Parcels for both of them that they dont want to deliver...not cost effective....so they pay us to do it....nice huh?....and talking to the businesses and people on the route.....it seems like we all fuck up....but everyone seems to like all three of the services the same.....some don't like one or the other.....some only go with one.....one thing the Letter Carrier has over the other guys is the people see us everyday and we get to know who are customers are.....the other guys only if you happen to get a delivery and its sign here...see you later....i had 980 deliveries on my last route and i bet i knew 70% of the people who lived on it and they knew me....

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

So how fast should a letter from Miami to New York move for $0.45 cents?

Are you saying it should cost whatever it would take to move it in 1 day? In two days? In three days?

Like everything else, we need to decide how much government we want and calibrate taxes to pay for them.

I think that the USPS has way too much infrastructure in place for it's volume. You seem to either want MORE infrastructure to move the mail faster or raise the prices to support the existing model.

The winning position, in my view, is that the USPS fulfill it's constitutional role to serve the entire nation but, where possible, partner with those who do it better in some cases--USPS, Federal Express, Central Freight, Saia, JB Hunt, DHL, whomever--but still do what they would do better, serve the rural areas.

Give them 10 years and phase out where you need to phase out and ramp up where you need to ramp up.

Second paragraph first. "More government". It has been established the USPS is not funded by taxpayer dollars. Therefore it is a quasi-federal entity.
I believe where the cost to move a piece of mail is higher, the rate charged to the customer should reflect the additional cost of that service.
Yes, the USPS could perhaps reduce the infrastructure. My suggestion is to reduce the cost of labor. For example, why have employee carriers? Most are contract now. Eliminating the need for high cost labor and replace it with non employee contract labor would save tons of money in wages and benefits. That money could be poured back into the system as an investment in new technologies.
10 years? The USPS has had more than enough time to adjust its business model.

 

[Cowman]

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

You don't know the first god damn thing you're talking about.

I mailed a USPS standard sized under 1 ounce letter to myself during the course of my job(had to mail it to myself, couldn't just take it. Proper procedure), and I was surprised it arrived the next day. That's not to say that's standard, but it happens often enough.

USPS parcels also always seem to arrive sooner than FedEX and UPS Parcels, usually even beating the expected delivery date.

The Postal Service will actually deliver letters ahead of their scheduled delivery date. You cannot get that with FedEX and UPS. If you have a package scheduled to arrive February 17th by FedEX and UPS, and you track it... so often you'll find that it's in your city able to be delivered, but it just gets held at the facility until the proper date. That shit doesn't happen with the USPS.

That's not to say USPS is the best and without flaw, and that FedEX and UPS are terrible. Far from it. What I am saying however, is that your mocking of USPS speed is total fucking bullshit.

"Snail Mail" isn't strictly applicable to the USPS. FedEX and UPS are also technically considered Snail Mail. Letters, parcels, delivered by courier via physical transportation means instead of electronic means. THAT is what Snail Mail means. FedEX and UPS are no faster or more reliable than USPS. If you want Overnight, all three carriers can provide that for you.

The USPS isn't perfect and things can be improved, but the notion that it's doing everything wrong is absolutely bullshit. The USPS has a proven track record of doing a great many things right. It's an incredible feat of engineering, logistics and sheer commitment, the service the USPS provides.

Your solution is to fucking gut that and get rid of it entirely? Fucking please. All that demonstrates is that you have ulterior motives. If you can't acknowledge the brilliance of what the USPS can accomplish, you're ignorant. 550 million pieces of mail daily(EDIT: actually that number is outdated. It's 660 million or more now). FedEX and UPS can't even come close to touching that. FedEX itself only delivers about 3.4 million. I believe the number on UPS is slightly smaller, more around 2 million(EDIT: these numbers are actually old too. Between them it's about 25 million total). Do you not see the extreme differences there? The number of parcels, not counting letters or flats that the postal service delivers every day dwarfs FedEX, UPS and every single other delivery agency in the country by a large margin.

And you think the solution is to just dump that? Scrap it because it's doing things wrong and poorly? You don't think the solution is to revitalize it and make it work in a more efficient, more cost effective way? You are an ignorant little prick who doesn't understand the full scale of operation that the USPS is compared to any of the other major shipping services. It would take 100+ additional FedEX's easily to fill in the void that the USPS would leave behind. FedEX and UPS are small fry in comparison.

Yeah..Ok, If the USPS is so "brilliant" then why does the service bleed money?.
And once again, you limit your focus on UPS and Fed Ex on what these companies do NOW.
You ignore the pos...no, the inevitability that there exists very smart people who are indeed capable of producing a better, stronger, and FAR MORE cost efficient means of moving what we refer to as "the mail".
Yes, when a business has tried numerous times to "fix" itself only to fail at every turn, it is time to choose another path.
The scale of the USPS operation does not concern me. It is the failure of the service to perform functions on time and within a budget.
BTW genius, I have already stated numerous times in this thread that the USPS requires a revamping of operations to make it profitable. I got flamed for that. An OP cursed at me while stating that "some businesses just will lose money". In effect the OP was suggesting we just leave the USPS alone to continue down its current path of failure.
BTW, you decided to make this personal with insults directed at me. Clearly you've a personal stake in this and of course the insults are proof you've run your course in debate.
In conclusion. It is my hope you slip and fall on to a pile of thumbtacks.
Question: Why the anger?

You're not funding the USPS, so why do you think you get to say whether it shuts down or not to get replaced by X number of private companies?

I don't have a stake in the USPS, but I'm clearly not as ignorant as you are. You clearly don't know the first god damn thing about US postal service operations and how many Americans and businesses depend on it.

You seem to be under the impression that the postal service has an obligation to turn a profit, rather than just break even. It's a service, vital to this country... not a money making venture.

 

[Dubya]

I wouldn't care of the USPS stopped all deliveries. I do virtually everything online anymore anyway, so all ever get in the mail now is junk, and it immediately goes either into the trash can or my shredder.
I have two of my business vendors who insist on mailing me invoices and me mailing them checks. I told them both that until they upgrade their billing/payment systems, I won't be using them anymore.

Hence my response to the OP is, "Who cares?"

That sounds like a typical right-wing response, but you aren't the world. If you don't want to use the USPS then don't use it. It's as simple as that. I don't use it, but I have enough sense to know I'm not everybody and some people need it. So I care about the people who do need it and I care about more than half a million union jobs. That's who cares!

 

[Harry Dresden]

About 10 or so years ago, my friend's uncle retired from the PO after 35 years. He told me he had saved up two years worth of sick time. He said he had the lump sum option or he could accept the pay in regular checks until it was exhausted. He took option 2.
He made no mention of it affecting his pension checks.
Look, the deal is the USPS isn't doing it right. It's bleeding money. Customer complaints are way up. People poke fun calling it "snail mail". The mail is slow. Sometimes alarmingly slow.
Anyway, it is time for the USPS to get lean, slash costs, slash labor and operate like its existence depended upon at least breaking even.

So how fast should a letter from Miami to New York move for $0.45 cents?

Are you saying it should cost whatever it would take to move it in 1 day? In two days? In three days?

Like everything else, we need to decide how much government we want and calibrate taxes to pay for them.

I think that the USPS has way too much infrastructure in place for it's volume. You seem to either want MORE infrastructure to move the mail faster or raise the prices to support the existing model.

The winning position, in my view, is that the USPS fulfill it's constitutional role to serve the entire nation but, where possible, partner with those who do it better in some cases--USPS, Federal Express, Central Freight, Saia, JB Hunt, DHL, whomever--but still do what they would do better, serve the rural areas.

Give them 10 years and phase out where you need to phase out and ramp up where you need to ramp up.

Second paragraph first. "More government". It has been established the USPS is not funded by taxpayer dollars. Therefore it is a quasi-federal entity.
I believe where the cost to move a piece of mail is higher, the rate charged to the customer should reflect the additional cost of that service.
Yes, the USPS could perhaps reduce the infrastructure. My suggestion is to reduce the cost of labor. For example, why have employee carriers? Most are contract now. Eliminating the need for high cost labor and replace it with non employee contract labor would save tons of money in wages and benefits. That money could be poured back into the system as an investment in new technologies.
10 years? The USPS has had more than enough time to adjust its business model.

. For example, why have employee carriers? Most are contract now.

what do you mean by Contract?.....

 

[Samson]

tell that to the Millions of people who use the USPS over the other guys Sam.....until there are no first class mailings......you are wrong.....and what does any of this have to do with my post you quoted?....

You said the USPS is a poorly run business.

My contention is that it won't matter how well a business is run, if it offers services and products that very few people want, or need.

The fact that "Millions" or even one person "uses the USPS over the other guys" is irrelevant. I'm certain someone will always need a buggy whip too.

The fact that other guys exist is what is relevant. How is competition able to thrive despite the monopoly the USPS has on "first class" mailings?

Because first class mailings are OBSOLETE, not because of some competitor's offer.

Because of email, online shopping, and electronic bill payment, and a host of technology that make the USPS irrelevant.

You said the USPS is a poorly run business.
yes it is....when they have had REAL business people running it it did pretty dam good like in the 90's.....and parts of the 80's....

it aint irrelevant Sam if millions are still using it.....including all the other delivery services....a company that makes around 70 billion dollars a year doesn't sound irrelevant to me....

Um....during the 80's and 90's the internet and email was not nearly as popular as it has become, and the fact that I must remind you perfectly exemplifies my point: USPS business management is not the problem. The problem is they refuse to accept the reality that their service is becomming obsolete.

Ah...there's always the "to Big to Fail" arguement....as long as revenue is $65 B/yr then it cannot possibly be irrelevant, even thought this massive amount cannot cover expenses of $67 B/yr.

Well, if it worked for Chase, the why not for the USPS?

Because the USPS is not Chase: Banking is not an obsolete industry which will lose money into the foreseeable future.

 

[Cowman]

USPS is becoming no more obsolete than FedEX and UPS.

 

[Samson]

I wouldn't care of the USPS stopped all deliveries. I do virtually everything online anymore anyway, so all ever get in the mail now is junk, and it immediately goes either into the trash can or my shredder.
I have two of my business vendors who insist on mailing me invoices and me mailing them checks. I told them both that until they upgrade their billing/payment systems, I won't be using them anymore.

Hence my response to the OP is, "Who cares?"

That sounds like a typical right-wing response, but you aren't the world. If you don't want to use the USPS then don't use it. It's as simple as that. I don't use it, but I have enough sense to know I'm not everybody and some people need it. So I care about the people who do need it and I care about more than half a million union jobs. That's who cares!

I bet you also care that USPS union employees continue to vote for democrat candidates

... the largest employer of union employees, the United States Postal Service..

 

[thereisnospoon]

You don't know the first god damn thing you're talking about.

I mailed a USPS standard sized under 1 ounce letter to myself during the course of my job(had to mail it to myself, couldn't just take it. Proper procedure), and I was surprised it arrived the next day. That's not to say that's standard, but it happens often enough.

USPS parcels also always seem to arrive sooner than FedEX and UPS Parcels, usually even beating the expected delivery date.

The Postal Service will actually deliver letters ahead of their scheduled delivery date. You cannot get that with FedEX and UPS. If you have a package scheduled to arrive February 17th by FedEX and UPS, and you track it... so often you'll find that it's in your city able to be delivered, but it just gets held at the facility until the proper date. That shit doesn't happen with the USPS.

That's not to say USPS is the best and without flaw, and that FedEX and UPS are terrible. Far from it. What I am saying however, is that your mocking of USPS speed is total fucking bullshit.

"Snail Mail" isn't strictly applicable to the USPS. FedEX and UPS are also technically considered Snail Mail. Letters, parcels, delivered by courier via physical transportation means instead of electronic means. THAT is what Snail Mail means. FedEX and UPS are no faster or more reliable than USPS. If you want Overnight, all three carriers can provide that for you.

The USPS isn't perfect and things can be improved, but the notion that it's doing everything wrong is absolutely bullshit. The USPS has a proven track record of doing a great many things right. It's an incredible feat of engineering, logistics and sheer commitment, the service the USPS provides.

Your solution is to fucking gut that and get rid of it entirely? Fucking please. All that demonstrates is that you have ulterior motives. If you can't acknowledge the brilliance of what the USPS can accomplish, you're ignorant. 550 million pieces of mail daily(EDIT: actually that number is outdated. It's 660 million or more now). FedEX and UPS can't even come close to touching that. FedEX itself only delivers about 3.4 million. I believe the number on UPS is slightly smaller, more around 2 million(EDIT: these numbers are actually old too. Between them it's about 25 million total). Do you not see the extreme differences there? The number of parcels, not counting letters or flats that the postal service delivers every day dwarfs FedEX, UPS and every single other delivery agency in the country by a large margin.

And you think the solution is to just dump that? Scrap it because it's doing things wrong and poorly? You don't think the solution is to revitalize it and make it work in a more efficient, more cost effective way? You are an ignorant little prick who doesn't understand the full scale of operation that the USPS is compared to any of the other major shipping services. It would take 100+ additional FedEX's easily to fill in the void that the USPS would leave behind. FedEX and UPS are small fry in comparison.

Yeah..Ok, If the USPS is so "brilliant" then why does the service bleed money?.
And once again, you limit your focus on UPS and Fed Ex on what these companies do NOW.
You ignore the pos...no, the inevitability that there exists very smart people who are indeed capable of producing a better, stronger, and FAR MORE cost efficient means of moving what we refer to as "the mail".
Yes, when a business has tried numerous times to "fix" itself only to fail at every turn, it is time to choose another path.
The scale of the USPS operation does not concern me. It is the failure of the service to perform functions on time and within a budget.
BTW genius, I have already stated numerous times in this thread that the USPS requires a revamping of operations to make it profitable. I got flamed for that. An OP cursed at me while stating that "some businesses just will lose money". In effect the OP was suggesting we just leave the USPS alone to continue down its current path of failure.
BTW, you decided to make this personal with insults directed at me. Clearly you've a personal stake in this and of course the insults are proof you've run your course in debate.
In conclusion. It is my hope you slip and fall on to a pile of thumbtacks.
Question: Why the anger?

You're not funding the USPS, so why do you think you get to say whether it shuts down or not to get replaced by X number of private companies?

I don't have a stake in the USPS, but I'm clearly not as ignorant as you are. You clearly don't know the first god damn thing about US postal service operations and how many Americans and businesses depend on it.

You seem to be under the impression that the postal service has an obligation to turn a profit, rather than just break even. It's a service, vital to this country... not a money making venture.

You are one deep thinker, aren't you?
A vital service? That's an opinion. For every person you present that believes the USPS in its current state is a "vital service", I can show ten people who rarely ever or do not use the mail at all.
And please, stop deflecting. Throughout the course of this debate, those on your side have repeated the USPS is not taxpayer supported. Therefore it is a business. And with any business, the primary focus is to turn a profit. Hell, I'd be satisfied if the USPS just did what it was supposed to on time and within budget. However, this idea draws howls of protest from people such as yourself.
So, why the anger? What is YOUR interest in seeing this dinosaur of a system remain in place as is?
You persist in ytour notion that business and individuals depend upon the USPS as though it were some kind of lifeline. Where that notion is derived is a mystery. Case and point, first class mail volume has dropped precipitously over the last decade and that trend will continue as more businesses and individuals opt to do their business electronically.
You cannot stop it. Therefore change is required or the end of the USPS as we know it will arrive.