Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

[Montrovant]

I don't buy your theory of what is appealing or there would be a lot more mental inventions that parallel each other than what we have evidence of in the history of civilization. That there are differences in rites, rituals, and beliefs about whatever diety or dieties is recognized is to be expected. Of course human beings with imperfect knowledge, perception, and/or understanding would develop their own unique customs within their separate cultures. But that the concept of a god or gods is so uniform throughout all cultures of all times is quite a remarkable thing.

And, as all the great minds concluded, from Plato to Spinoza to Einstein, none of whom believed in a personal or intervening "God", it does suggest strong evidence or support for some kind of intelligent design of which all peoples of all times and places became aware.

I think there are a lot of factors which lead to pretty much all societies having belief in god(s). The biggest, IMO, is a basic human desire to know and understand. There are so many things that humanity does NOT understand, the belief in some sort of divine is a way to feel you really do understand. Then there's things like the fear of death, a completely natural, instinctive thing; the desire to feel special; the humbling nature of how small a part each of us plays in the world and universe; etc. etc.

I don't think the many beliefs about a god or gods, or the fact that there have probably always been people who didn't believe in any kind of god, really says anything about the likelihood of the divine existing one way or another. Perhaps if, in the future, we discover other intelligent life forms in the universe, and they all experience the same near universal belief in some sort of god or gods, the argument will be more compelling.

 

[Youwerecreated]

And if there is a single true God that wants to known by people, why are the identities so very different from one culture to the next. Why a pantheon of gods in some cultures and single God in others?

Our understanding of the divine from one culture to the next rises from our understanding to he commonplace.

It would take too much to answer your question may I suggest you read the bible.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I think there are a lot of factors which lead to pretty much all societies having belief in god(s). The biggest, IMO, is a basic human desire to know and understand. There are so many things that humanity does NOT understand, the belief in some sort of divine is a way to feel you really do understand. Then there's things like the fear of death, a completely natural, instinctive thing; the desire to feel special; the humbling nature of how small a part each of us plays in the world and universe; etc. etc.

I don't think the many beliefs about a god or gods, or the fact that there have probably always been people who didn't believe in any kind of god, really says anything about the likelihood of the divine existing one way or another. Perhaps if, in the future, we discover other intelligent life forms in the universe, and they all experience the same near universal belief in some sort of god or gods, the argument will be more compelling.

Montrovant, it's all the evdence we can test study and observe that only solidifies our beliefs in a designer.

 

[Montrovant]

I don't concern myself with what the Jews believe I am not Jewish and if that is what they teach take it up with them but I can tell you the scriptures do not teach that.

By looking into space it does not take a genius to see we live on a very unique planet and there is no other planet like it that we know of.

The question you should ask yourself, if a huge explosion caused all of this on this planet why just this planet ?

You keep saying things like this despite the fact you don't know it to be true. From what humanity has been able to see, we are one of an astronomical (pun intended) number of planets. We have not been able to closely study the huge majority of these planets, and so we do not know just what the conditions on them are. While we can make some educated guesses based on size, distance from star, etc., we don't know at all if the Earth is unique. We have observed other planets in the so-called Goldilocks zone, which puts them within the window for possibly sustaining life as it exists on this planet.

You have too often implied, hinted, or outright stated that this is the only planet with life, that this is the only planet with the conditions to contain life, and that is just not something there is evidence for. We have not yet been able to observe most other planets closely enough to make that kind of determination. We simply don't know.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You keep saying things like this despite the fact you don't know it to be true. From what humanity has been able to see, we are one of an astronomical (pun intended) number of planets. We have not been able to closely study the huge majority of these planets, and so we do not know just what the conditions on them are. While we can make some educated guesses based on size, distance from star, etc., we don't know at all if the Earth is unique. We have observed other planets in the so-called Goldilocks zone, which puts them within the window for possibly sustaining life as it exists on this planet.

You have too often implied, hinted, or outright stated that this is the only planet with life, that this is the only planet with the conditions to contain life, and that is just not something there is evidence for. We have not yet been able to observe most other planets closely enough to make that kind of determination. We simply don't know.

So far we have no reason to believe life can be on any other planet correct ? Do you realize how important our survival is dependent upon the existence of the sun and moon. So you believe in coincedence ? Just because the universe is so vast does not mean there is life on other planets. But if this Big Bang supposedly caused whats on this planet then by reason you could assume that life would have spread through the universe.

 

[code1211]

I don't concern myself with what the Jews believe I am not Jewish and if that is what they teach take it up with them but I can tell you the scriptures do not teach that.

By looking into space it does not take a genius to see we live on a very unique planet and there is no other planet like it that we know of.

The question you should ask yourself, if a huge explosion caused all of this on this planet why just this planet ?

Why not?

 

[code1211]

So far we have no reason to believe life can be on any other planet correct ? Do you realize how important our survival is dependent upon the existence of the sun and moon. So you believe in coincedence ? Just because the universe is so vast does not mean there is life on other planets. But if this Big Bang supposedly caused whats on this planet then by reason you could assume that life would have spread through the universe.

That is true. We could even believe that to be the case. That would not make it the case, however.

 

[Cammmpbell]

You really think world wars 1&2 were about religion ? You think all the bad things going on in the world is because of a belief in a higher power ? Maybe the sucker is the one that can't explain our existence and refuses to ACCEPT evidence of a DESIGNER.

The suckers are folks who cannot accept their mortality and who have such an ego that they believe they are holy enough to be rewarded in the hereafter. It doesn't get any plainer than that. When somebody will believe a poorly written 3500 year old fairy tale it's because they want to.

To me these men were anything but suckers:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" ~Thomas Jefferson-letter to president John Adams~

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature" ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

 

[Foxfyre]

And if there is a single true God that wants to known by people, why are the identities so very different from one culture to the next. Why a pantheon of gods in some cultures and single God in others?

Our understanding of the divine from one culture to the next rises from our understanding of the commonplace.

A concept of one single "true" God is not uniform among all cultures, however, and that is a different debate. I prefer to start with the evidence of a concept of God tht does not need the Jewish or Christian scriptures to support that concept. There is no point in discussing the nature of God unless one is convinced that some form of a concept of God exists.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Why not?

Judaism and Christianity are two different belief systems. They the Jerws are still waiting for their messiah and the messiah already came.

The Jews no longer have a Temple and havn't had one for almost two thousand years ,that should tell the Jews something is not right.

 

[Youwerecreated]

That is true. We could even believe that to be the case. That would not make it the case, however.

Why ? With that vast universe and that matter being spread throughout the universe ? Just another theory that defies logic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The suckers are folks who cannot accept their mortality and who have such an ego that they believe they are holy enough to be rewarded in the hereafter. It doesn't get any plainer than that. When somebody will believe a poorly written 3500 year old fairy tale it's because they want to.

To me these men were anything but suckers:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" ~Thomas Jefferson-letter to president John Adams~

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature" ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

Really ? Christians know death is certain and Christians that study their bible know that when we die that is it until the resurrection. Many Christians were put to death because they would not give up their faith in Christ and Christ warned that would happen.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Really ? Christians know death is certain and Christians that study their bible know that when we die that is it until the resurrection. Many Christians were put to death because they would give up their faith in Christ and Christ warned that would happen.

That's my problem...there were six recogni ed historians in the world at that time and there's not one iota of documentation by any of them mentioning Jesus. His close friends and family were the only ones who fabricated that stuff and when John wrote Revelations he was exiled, sick, delirious, etc. Anybody who reads the chapter knows how extremely rediculous it is. If it had not been for the Roman emperor Constantine about 340AD the whole idea of a resurrected saviour would have died on the vine.

A fairy tale was a fairy tale then and today it's even more of a fairy tale. Like I said previously....only brainwashed or naive people really believe that stuff...well, there is the Republican thing.

 

[Youwerecreated]

That's my problem...there were six recogni ed historians in the world at that time and there's not one iota of documentation by any of them mentioning Jesus. His close friends and family were the only ones who fabricated that stuff and when John wrote Revelations he was exiled, sick, delirious, etc. Anybody who reads the chapter knows how extremely rediculous it is. If it had not been for the Roman emperor Constantine about 340AD the whole idea of a resurrected saviour would have died on the vine.

A fairy tale was a fairy tale then and today it's even more of a fairy tale. Like I said previously....only brainwashed or naive people really believe that stuff...well, there is the Republican thing.

Really, Where did Josephus Roman/Jewish historian get his information from ?

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Parsifal]

Many Christians were put to death because they would not give up their faith in Christ and Christ warned that would happen.

Actually Christians have killed more Christians for sectarian reasons than were martyred by non-Christians.

We shall conclude this chapter by a melancholy truth which obtrudes itself on the reluctant mind; that, even admitting, without hesitation or inquiry, all that history has recorded, or devotion has feigned, on the subject of martyrdoms, it must still be acknowledged that the Christians, in the course of their intestine dissensions, have inflicted far greater severities on each other than they had experienced from the zeal of infidels. -Edward Gibbon, The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire

 

[dilloduck]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"


The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"


Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography


SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?

I recommend the Harper's article, by a physicist and a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, that is highly supportive of your position:

In part:
"On one thing most physicists agree: If the amount of dark energy in our universe were only a little bit different than what it actually is, then life could never have emerged. A little more and the universe would accelerate so rapidly that the matter in the young cosmos could never pull itself together to form stars and thence form the complex atoms made in stars. And, going into negative values of dark energy, a little less and the universe would decelerate so rapidly that it would recollapse before there was time to form even the simplest atoms. Here we have a clear example of fine-tuning: out of all the possible amounts of dark energy that our universe might have, the actual amount lies in the tiny sliver of the range that allows life. There is little argument on this point. It does not depend on assumptions about whether we need liquid water for life or oxygen or particular biochemistries. As before, one is compelled to ask the question: Why does such fine-tuning occur? "


The accidental universe: Science's crisis of faith
By Alan P. Lightman
The accidental universe: Science's crisis of faith?By Alan P. Lightman (Harper's Magazine)

That is a "What is the meaning/purpose of life ? " question,isn't it ?

 

[uscitizen]

I don't concern myself with what the Jews believe I am not Jewish and if that is what they teach take it up with them but I can tell you the scriptures do not teach that.

By looking into space it does not take a genius to see we live on a very unique planet and there is no other planet like it that we know of.

The question you should ask yourself, if a huge explosion caused all of this on this planet why just this planet ?

LMAO... Just LMAO We can barely see the othe r planets on our solar system and cannot really even see any other planets in the billions and billions of solar systems in the billions of galaxies.

Ahh such ignorant arrogance.... And this level of arrogance is argueing for the existance of a supreme god?

Unbelieveable, just unbelieveable.

 

[dilloduck]

That's my problem...there were six recogni ed historians in the world at that time and there's not one iota of documentation by any of them mentioning Jesus. His close friends and family were the only ones who fabricated that stuff and when John wrote Revelations he was exiled, sick, delirious, etc. Anybody who reads the chapter knows how extremely rediculous it is. If it had not been for the Roman emperor Constantine about 340AD the whole idea of a resurrected saviour would have died on the vine.

A fairy tale was a fairy tale then and today it's even more of a fairy tale. Like I said previously....only brainwashed or naive people really believe that stuff...well, there is the Republican thing.

Which non-fairy tale philosophy do you subscribe to that defines the purpose of human life?

 

[Parsifal]

defines the purpose of human life?

The purpose of life is to agree with my religious views.

 

[uscitizen]

Why does human life have to have a purpose?