Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

[Foxfyre]

The best evidence we have for a massive life changing flood event is that every ancient culture has a flood story in its mythology. So was there a flood of epic proportions as recounted in Genesis? Chances are there was something of that magnitude that, to primitive people, would have looked like it covered the entire Earth.

Have there been major climate shifts or geological events such as large asteroids hitting the Earth that could have disrupted normal evolutionary processes? We know for a fact that there have been such events.

And not one of us is smart enough to say that such things are not normal occurences in the universe or that such supercedes an intelligent design being incorporated into evolutionary processes. If there is such an intelligent design, it is far more intelligent than any of us and it would not be bound to our concept of the way things ought to be.

 

[Cammmpbell]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"


The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"


Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and the Big Bang theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography


SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?

Oh sure....now I'm totally convinced that the supreme creator of the universe dropped off the only keys to the kingdom 2000 years ago to a bunch of ignorant camel herders who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. If he did he has an unbelievable sense of humor and he's not my god.

No matter who your God might be, it's impossible to know the definition of God and look at the world around us and not conclude that he has a sense of humor.

Yeah...like the fact that as soon as mankind became civili ed enough and his numbers grew disease and all manner of torture and war ran rampant. A century ago the average life expectancy in this country was about 40. If you don't split your ribs laughing at that look at the billion humans on this planet who are dying of starvation or at best suffering from malnutrition. Nobody gives a shit...Christians thump their bibles, put on their new clothes and drive their new car to a building nearby, drop off 10% of their gross and walk away with a clean conscience. Not too many of them help anyone except the preacher and help pay church expenses.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If God created this planet, why are there not these conditions and life scattered throughout the Universe?

Because God specifically chose and designed this planet for life that is why it is unique. Notice most other planets rememble the earth before God started creating life on it other than the water that was present here.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.

 

[code1211]

How do you know that they are not?

I don't. I was merely using his words to expose the fallacious nature of his comment.

 

[code1211]

Because God specifically chose and designed this planet for life that is why it is unique. Notice most other planets rememble the earth before God started creating life on it other than the water that was present here.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.

Where does it say that the Earth orbits the Sun?

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't. I was merely using his words to expose the fallacious nature of his comment.

I suppose it is part of the evolutionary process that humankind ever strives to dismiss God or any concept of intelligent design so that he can BE God. Which of course was the whole point of the story of Adam and Eve.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Where does it say that the Earth orbits the Sun?

The earth does orbit the sun and the moon orbits the earth what is your point ?

 

[Cammmpbell]

Because God specifically chose and designed this planet for life that is why it is unique. Notice most other planets rememble the earth before God started creating life on it other than the water that was present here.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.

LOL

You sound like a preacher. They know what god thinks, how he feels, what he wants, what he specifically chose and intended. The problem is that they all read the same ignorant, primitive book and interpereted it over 44,000 different ways. I'd say there's a small problem there.'Course when one incudes the south sea islands there are more than 4000 ancient gods being worshipped today. What a load of schit.

 

[Youwerecreated]

LOL

You sound like a preacher. They know what god thinks, how he feels, what he wants, what he specifically chose and intended. The problem is that they all read the same ignorant, primitive book and interpereted it over 44,000 different ways. I'd say there's a small problem there.'Course when one incudes the south sea islands there are more than 4000 ancient gods being worshipped today. What a load of schit.

Forgive me for using the words I learned from the scriptures. People who worship false gods purposely will Have a talk with the one true God. The same can be said for those who worshipped false gods out of ignorance of the one true God.

All they can hope for is to be ignorant of the one true God. The bible reveals foolishness of man.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Forgive me for using the words I learned from the scriptures. People who worship false gods purposely will Have a talk with the one true God. The same can be said for those who worshipped false gods out of ignorance of the one true God.

All they can hope for is to be ignorant of the one true God. The bible reveals foolishness of man.

That's what those more than 4000 groups who worship an ancient god and those who adhere to one of the more than 44,000 denominations, conventions, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. of the Christian faith believe....that they are worshipping the true god.

Social and cultural groups are formed on those standards, wars are fought, people are tortured and or murdered, acts of terrorism run rampant.....why, because everybody's god is the true god. P.T. Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" People who live their lives based upon a promise of something which is supposed to occur after they're dead prove he was right.

 

[code1211]

The earth does orbit the sun and the moon orbits the earth what is your point ?

Based on the inspired word of God, the Church was torturing and killing folks who said that the Earth was not the Center of the Universe.

Just wondering why the inspired word of God was given as a confirmation of what a stone age culture had observed to be the state of nature from their caves.

If there was an inaccuracy in this or an omission, it might lead a cynic to wonder how much of the inspired word of God was itself Intelligently Designed following the inspiration.

 

[code1211]

I suppose it is part of the evolutionary process that humankind ever strives to dismiss God or any concept of intelligent design so that he can BE God. Which of course was the whole point of the story of Adam and Eve.

And conversely, as someone wiser than I once observed, if God had not created man, Man certainly would have created God.

 

[Foxfyre]

And conversely, as someone wiser than I once observed, if God had not created man, Man certainly would have created God.

But why is that a foregone conclusion? With no teaching or concept or experience with a supernatural being, how is it that ALL cultures 'invent' one or more "gods:? They don't they all 'invent' knowledge of dinosaurs or visitors from other worlds or electric coffee pots? Why is it only a tiny few who were able to discern a curvature of the Earth and suspect it was not flat as science once taught? Why was there only one Galileo. One Copernicus? Why are such men so very rare?

And yet all cultures have a concept of God in some form.

That is one of the non-Biblical arguments used in apologetics for the existence of God.

 

[Youwerecreated]

That's what those more than 4000 groups who worship an ancient god and those who adhere to one of the more than 44,000 denominations, conventions, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. of the Christian faith believe....that they are worshipping the true god.

Social and cultural groups are formed on those standards, wars are fought, people are tortured and or murdered, acts of terrorism run rampant.....why, because everybody's god is the true god. P.T. Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" People who live their lives based upon a promise of something which is supposed to occur after they're dead prove he was right.

You really think world wars 1&2 were about religion ? You think all the bad things going on in the world is because of a belief in a higher power ? Maybe the sucker is the one that can't explain our existence and refuses to ACCEPT evidence of a DESIGNER.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Based on the inspired word of God, the Church was torturing and killing folks who said that the Earth was not the Center of the Universe.

Just wondering why the inspired word of God was given as a confirmation of what a stone age culture had observed to be the state of nature from their caves.

If there was an inaccuracy in this or an omission, it might lead a cynic to wonder how much of the inspired word of God was itself Intelligently Designed following the inspiration.

Sorry but you bought into a lie. There were only a few that believed the earth was the center of the universe.

You definitely have the atheistic handbook down.

If mistakes were made during translation that is not on God. But I have studied the bible for over 40 years and I don't see the problems your side claims. Usually the criticism's that come from your side are do to cherry picking and from ignorance of the scriptures.

Unfortunately God gets all the credit for the ignorant that teach doctrines of demons.

 

[code1211]

But why is that a foregone conclusion? With no teaching or concept or experience with a supernatural being, how is it that ALL cultures 'invent' one or more "gods:? They don't they all 'invent' knowledge of dinosaurs or visitors from other worlds or electric coffee pots? Why is it only a tiny few who were able to discern a curvature of the Earth and suspect it was not flat as science once taught? Why was there only one Galileo. One Copernicus? Why are such men so very rare?

And yet all cultures have a concept of God in some form.

That is one of the non-Biblical arguments used in apologetics for the existence of God.

Assuming for this post that there is no supreme ruler, natural events are terrifying. Lightning and cold hard rain is devastating to a person with no shelter. Worse occurrences like a tornado or a hurricane would have to be life shattering to a small group in its path with no system of support from outside.

Same with blizzards or drought or anything else natural that occurs beyond our control.

Having an authority to appeal is, well, appealing. We grow up with authority figures helping us and guiding us and it is natural to either call on these folks after they are dead or invent a being to whom we can pray.

You say that every culture has a God or gods to whom they pray. Why is it not the same God for all? That various cultures have various gods is a very weak argument that a supreme being invented us and a very strong argument that the various cultures invented those gods.

 

[code1211]

Sorry but you bought into a lie. There were only a few that believed the earth was the center of the universe.

You definitely have the atheistic handbook down.

If mistakes were made during translation that is not on God. But I have studied the bible for over 40 years and I don't see the problems your side claims. Usually the criticism's that come from your side are do to cherry picking and from ignorance of the scriptures.

Unfortunately God gets all the credit for the ignorant that teach doctrines of demons.

Where in the Bible does it say that the Earth is pretty minor planet orbiting a pretty average star in a fairly out of the way part of one galaxy among billions of galaxies.

You will need to provide a link that explains that the Earth is not the center of the Universe as related by the early Jews.

 

[Foxfyre]

Assuming for this post that there is no supreme ruler, natural events are terrifying. Lightning and cold hard rain is devastating to a person with no shelter. Worse occurrences like a tornado or a hurricane would have to be life shattering to a small group in its path with no system of support from outside.

Same with blizzards or drought or anything else natural that occurs beyond our control.

Having an authority to appeal is, well, appealing. We grow up with authority figures helping us and guiding us and it is natural to either call on these folks after they are dead or invent a being to whom we can pray.

You say that every culture has a God or gods to whom they pray. Why is it not the same God for all? That various cultures have various gods is a very weak argument that a supreme being invented us and a very strong argument that the various cultures invented those gods.

I don't buy your theory of what is appealing or there would be a lot more mental inventions that parallel each other than what we have evidence of in the history of civilization. That there are differences in rites, rituals, and beliefs about whatever diety or dieties is recognized is to be expected. Of course human beings with imperfect knowledge, perception, and/or understanding would develop their own unique customs within their separate cultures. But that the concept of a god or gods is so uniform throughout all cultures of all times is quite a remarkable thing.

And, as all the great minds concluded, from Plato to Spinoza to Einstein, none of whom believed in a personal or intervening "God", it does suggest strong evidence or support for some kind of intelligent design of which all peoples of all times and places became aware.

 

[code1211]

I don't buy your theory of what is appealing or there would be a lot more mental inventions that parallel each other than what we have evidence of in the history of civilization. That there are differences in rites, rituals, and beliefs about whatever diety or dieties is recognized is to be expected. Of course human beings with imperfect knowledge, perception, and/or understanding would develop their own unique customs within their separate cultures. But that the concept of a god or gods is so uniform throughout all cultures of all times is quite a remarkable thing.

And, as all the great minds concluded, from Plato to Spinoza to Einstein, none of whom believed in a personal or intervening "God", it does suggest strong evidence or support for some kind of intelligent design of which all peoples of all times and places became aware.

And if there is a single true God that wants to known by people, why are the identities so very different from one culture to the next. Why a pantheon of gods in some cultures and single God in others?

Our understanding of the divine from one culture to the next rises from our understanding of the commonplace.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Where in the Bible does it say that the Earth is pretty minor planet orbiting a pretty average star in a fairly out of the way part of one galaxy among billions of galaxies.

You will need to provide a link that explains that the Earth is not the center of the Universe as related by the early Jews.

I don't concern myself with what the Jews believe I am not Jewish and if that is what they teach take it up with them but I can tell you the scriptures do not teach that.

By looking into space it does not take a genius to see we live on a very unique planet and there is no other planet like it that we know of.

The question you should ask yourself, if a huge explosion caused all of this on this planet why just this planet ?