President plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on 700 super-rich Americans that would levy ALL forms of income for families worth more than $100M

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes...
It's called naked shorting. It used to be illegal...a major SEC violation.
When they changed the laws in the '90's regarding stock purchases to keep small investors from day trading this was one thing that they relaxed...and it's effect has not been a positive for these past 30 years.

It's creating a volatility in the market that isn't healthy. And this also has been the device that the super wealthy use to have cash reserves.

So if we limit ourselves again to the original 3 day rule...it will stop these things.

I know that it isn't exactly popular idea...but this just applies to stocks. It doesn't affect options or anything else. Hedge funds will be OB somewhat...well they will not get so upside down to where they go bankrupt like several did this past summer. Those margin calls flooded the market with stocks. And the defaulted debt cost a pretty penny as well.

Then guys like Elon musk will have to take larger salaries and sell his stock holdings by dribbling them out.
It will also stop congress from profiting so much from legislation...

It's called naked shorting. It used to be illegal...a major SEC violation.

What does naked short selling have to do with guys like Musk, Gates or Bezos?

So if we limit ourselves again to the original 3 day rule...it will stop these things.

Which 3 day rule?

Hedge funds will be OB somewhat...well they will not get so upside down to where they go bankrupt like several did this past summer.

What are you talking about? Which hedge funds?

Then guys like Elon musk will have to take larger salaries and sell his stock holdings by dribbling them out.

You're not making any sense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Musk is underpaying taxes...unless of course you think everyone can just pay ~5% like he has.

When did he ever pay 5%? Link?

 

[AntonToo]

The stupid Libtards thunk the answer to everything is more taxes.

And stupid rightwingers think that answer to everything is less taxes.

Both are just silly ideology or a strawman of opposition's position.

 

[jc456]

...Did you just seriously propose we compare in nominal dollars how much I pay in taxes to how much one of the richest men in the world pays in a cherry-picked year? What the hell is wrong with you?


Aside from that if you are just going to ignore what I say and keep repeating same shit then this is as far as this conversation can go.

Here you go, read up:

How America’s Richest People Can Access Billions Without Selling Their Stock

Many of the country’s richest people, including Elon Musk and Larry Ellison, borrow against their stock while avoiding capital gains taxes.

www.forbes.com

nice goal post move. capital gains vs income tax, two different things einstein.

So by your own standard of fairness Musk is underpaying taxes...unless of course you think everyone can just pay ~5% like he has.

How is it you have information on personal tax information?

 

[AntonToo]

When did he ever pay 5%? Link?

Read the thread.

President plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on 700 super-rich Americans that would levy ALL forms of income for families worth more than $100M

Cool story, but there actually IS a reason one of the richest men in the world borrows money from his companies and lives in houses those companies own. So just to be clear, no matter what the facts show you're just going to keep parroting the same schtick. Correct? Money that is borrowed and...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Read the thread.

President plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on 700 super-rich Americans that would levy ALL forms of income for families worth more than $100M

Cool story, but there actually IS a reason one of the richest men in the world borrows money from his companies and lives in houses those companies own. So just to be clear, no matter what the facts show you're just going to keep parroting the same schtick. Correct? Money that is borrowed and...

www.usmessageboard.com

He never paid 5% on his income.

 

[AntonToo]

Is that why they're sheltering all their wealth in the Gates Foundation to pay zero taxes? DURR.

...wtf? Gates Foundation is setup to give away most of Gates money....and you think it's some sort of avoidance scheme?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

...wtf? Gates Foundation is setup to give away most of Gates money....and you think it's some sort of avoidance scheme?

Gates says rich people should pay more tax to the government.
Gates sets up a foundation.
Rich people donate to the foundation and pay NO TAXES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Do you see it yet?

 

[hadit]

They cannot levy taxes on wealth, that is an unconstitutional taking.

It would appear that the ultimate goal is for the state to own everything and citizens are only allowed to possess what the state allows them to possess. What's that called again?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Biden has reached new heights of idiocy. Does he actually believe any Republican is going to vote for that?

Biden plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on billionaires​

the worlds richest men, including Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, have much of their wealth in the form of stock.​

​

As their stock rises in value, they are able to finance lavish lifestyles by taking out loans secured by their stock holdings. But loans are not taxed as income, and in many cases the interest payments are tax deductible.​

​

The rising value of stock holdings -- known as unrealized gains -- is also not taxed as income. Capital gains taxes are only imposed when the stock is sold.​

​

s a result, some 400 billionaire families paid an average federal tax rate of just over 8 percent of their income between 2010 and 2018, according to an estimate from the White House Office of Management and Budget and Council of Economic Advisers.​

​

However, critics of a 'wealth tax' argue that treating unrealized gains as income is unfair and could lead to unintended consequences.​

​

If billionaires are forced to pay taxes on the rising values of their stocks, even before they sell them at a profit, they could be forced to sell off control of companies that they founded in order to pay their tax bills, critics say.​

​

Under Biden's new plan, billionaires already paying more than 20 percent in federal taxes would not owe additional taxes, according to the Post.​

​

The taxes paid toward the minimum tax would count toward whatever billionaires owe whenever they sell their stock and pay ordinary capital gains taxes.​

​

'The Billionaire Minimum Income Tax will ensure that the very wealthiest Americans pay a tax rate of at least 20 percent on their full income,'​

​

'This minimum tax would make sure that the wealthiest Americans no longer pay a tax rate lower than teachers and firefighters.'​

Billionaires like Bezos support Biden so they deserve this. Correct? What is the problem?

 

[AntonToo]

He never paid 5% on his income.

Elon Musk Claims He Will Pay More Than $11 Billion In Taxes This Year

Musk was recently engaged in an online feud with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who accused him of “freeloading” after he criticized the Democratic party's efforts to raise taxes on the rich.

www.forbes.com

 

[Flash]

Mega rich people don't give a shit about income taxes. Their accountants can always manipulate earnings so that it doesn't effect the wealth.

The rich makes their money on globalization and government subsidizes. Income taxes are a drop in the bucket to their bottom line.

Income taxes are a significant hit to my family's disposable income but not to Bill Gate's.

 

[AntonToo]

Gates says rich people should pay more tax to the government.
Gates sets up a foundation.
Rich people donate to the foundation and pay NO TAXES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Do you see it yet?

No, what I see is a bad faith argument from you.

Bill Gates supports EFFECTIVELY taxing the rich more.

The fact that current system allows for charitable contribution deductions does not change that fact.

 

[hadit]

FIRST be in favor of spending cuts BEFORE one damn cent in tax increases. Get all the deadbeats off their ass and make them work for their handouts while we are cleaning up the mess.

We could literally balance the budget relatively quickly just by freezing programs where they are. Don't even need to cut spending.

Or, for that matter, link any budget increases to no more than inflation and make the legislators defend their pet projects publicly because they would be fighting over a fixed amount of money. Guess what would happen to the published rate of inflation?

 

[hadit]

No. Bill Gates supports EFFECTIVELY taxing the rich more.

The fact that current system allows for charitable contribution deductions does not change that fact.

That's a nice sentiment. Tell us, do you believe that Bill Gates fills out his 1040 form on TurboTax or does he hire an army of tax attorneys to keep his taxes as low as possible? IOW, many a wealthy democrat SAYS they want to pay more taxes but does everything they can to pay as little as possible in practice. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[AntonToo]

We could literally balance the budget relatively quickly just by freezing programs where they are. Don't even need to cut spending.

Anyone who claims this sort of "easy" option does not know what they are talking about.

We have more and more population and an an aging one at that, how can benefits remain same?

For example more and more people are recieving SS payments. How exactly do you "freeze" the program? By stoppping CPI adjustment? By cutting individual benefits? What is "easy" about any of that?

 

[jc456]

...Did you just seriously propose we compare in nominal dollars how much I pay in taxes to how much one of the richest men in the world pays in a cherry-picked year? What the hell is wrong with you?


Aside from that if you are just going to ignore what I say and keep repeating same shit then this is as far as this conversation can go.

Here you go, read up:

How America’s Richest People Can Access Billions Without Selling Their Stock

Many of the country’s richest people, including Elon Musk and Larry Ellison, borrow against their stock while avoiding capital gains taxes.

www.forbes.com

nice goal post move. capital gains vs income tax, two different things einstein.

 

[jc456]

Anyone who claims this sort of "easy" option does not know what they are talking about.

We have more and more people on SS. How exactly do you "freeze" the program? By stoppping CPI adjustment? By cutting individual benefits? What is "easy" about any of that?

seriously, you didn't just write that.

 

[jc456]

The stupid Libtards thunk the answer to everything is more taxes.

57% of the people in the US don't pay any of that trillion dollars a year collected in the stupid income tax. They don't have any skin the game, do they?

Progressive income tax rates are nothing more than greed and envy and is despicable.

that's been the argument all along.

 

[AntonToo]

That's a nice sentiment. Tell us, do you believe that Bill Gates fills out his 1040 form on TurboTax or does he hire an army of tax attorneys to keep his taxes as low as possible? IOW, many a wealthy democrat SAYS they want to pay more taxes but does everything they can to pay as little as possible in practice. Actions speak louder than words.

He can hire three armies, if the minimal tax is 20% that is what he will minimally pay on his total wealth growth.

Not sure what you have against that.