President plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on 700 super-rich Americans that would levy ALL forms of income for families worth more than $100M

[hadit]

Anyone who claims this sort of "easy" option does not know what they are talking about.

We have more and more people on SS. How exactly do you "freeze" the program? By stoppping CPI adjustment? By cutting individual benefits? What is "easy" about any of that?

Easy. Freeze the overall budget and force legislators to cut some programs to free up money to expand others. Then there's the second option, allow the overall budget to only grow by a fixed amount and force the legislators to again compromise where to cut so some programs could grow. It would rapidly identify the truly important programs. Maybe we would end up consolidating redundant programs and reducing budgets that way. The idea is to force Congress to actually do the hard work they are paid to do.

 

[jc456]

And stupid rightwingers think that answer to everything is less taxes.

Both are just silly ideology or a strawman of opposition's position.

huh? who ever said that? we said cut spending like families do when revenues don't match the payouts. It's actually you bunch of fks who never say shit about cutting spending. hmmmmmm why is that?

 

[hadit]

He can hire three armies, if the minimal tax is 20% that is what he will minimally pay on his total wealth growth.

Not sure what you have against that.

I didn't comment on that, I commented on the absurdity of taking someone at their word who says they want to pay more in taxes, but do everything they can to pay as little as they can. IOW, Bill Gates by saying he wants to pay more taxes is no more virtuous than TRUMP!, who obviously wants to pay as little as possible if they both do what they can to minimize their tax bill.

 

[AntonToo]

Easy. Freeze the overall budget and force legislators to cut some programs to free up money to expand others.

HOW?? How are you going to do that as a matter of political question?

People generally hate program spending cuts and they hate more taxes.

Either party going for one side of the budget balance equation agressively enough to make a serious difference in the oceans of red ink we are facing will be crucified in the very next election.


Which is why a GRAND BARGAIN has always been the only realistic scenario - cut some spending, raise some taxes, sacrifice some growth to get to fiscal sanity.

 

[AntonToo]

I didn't comment on that, I commented on the absurdity of taking someone at their word

It's about a more fair taxation system.

Want to tax Bill Gates and other rich liberals more? Support the minimum tax reforms. Show them up.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Elon Musk Claims He Will Pay More Than $11 Billion In Taxes This Year

Musk was recently engaged in an online feud with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who accused him of “freeloading” after he criticized the Democratic party's efforts to raise taxes on the rich.

www.forbes.com

Musk was awarded options in 2012 as part of a compensation plan. Because he doesn’t take a salary or cash bonus, his wealth comes from stock awards and the gains in Tesla’s share price. The 2012 award was for 22.8 million shares at a strike price of $6.24 per share. Tesla shares closed at $1,222.09 on Friday, meaning his gain on the shares totals just under $28 billion.

The company has also recently disclosed that Musk has taken out loans using his shares as collateral, and with the sales, Musk may want to repay some of those loan obligations.

As Tesla noted in its third-quarter Securities and Exchange Commission 10-Q filing this year: “If the price of our common stock were to decline substantially, Mr. Musk may be forced by one or more of the banking institutions to sell shares of Tesla common stock to satisfy his loan obligations if he could not do so through other means. Any such sales could cause the price of our common stock to decline further.”

The options expire in August of next year. Yet in order to exercise them, Musk has to pay the income tax on the gain. Since the options are taxed as an employee benefit or compensation, they will be taxed at top ordinary-income levels, or 37% plus the 3.8% net investment tax. He will also have to pay the 13.3% top tax rate in California since the options were granted and mostly earned while he was a California tax resident.

Combined, the state and federal tax rate will be 54.1%. So the total tax bill on his options, at the current price, would be $15 billion.

Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock

Elon Musk faces a tax bill of over $15 billion in the coming months on stock options, making a sale of Tesla stock this year likely regardless of the Twitter vote.

www.cnbc.com

You were saying?

 

[366h34d]

Yep not income, he just lives a lavish lifestyle on it while getting away with not paying reasonable tax rates that I and other middle class Americans pay.

I really don't know what's in it for YOU to support this broken status quo, but it makes no fn sense.

First of all, what are the reasonable tax rates? Then, living a lavish lifestyle has nothing to do with income. Many people in this world who have no income are living a lavish lifestyle.

It seems that you just have a problem with people living large

 

[366h34d]

It's about a more fair taxation system.

Want to tax Bill Gates and other rich liberals more? Support the minimum tax reforms. Show them up.

my fds, Bill Gates will only make around a few million per year if this law passes.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[hadit]

HOW?? How are you going to do that as a matter of political question?

People generally hate program spending cuts and they hate more taxes.

Either party going for oneside of the balance equation too agressively will be crucified in the very next election.


Which is why a GRAND BARGAIN has always been the only realistic scenario - cut some spending, raise some taxes, sacrifice some growth to get to fiscal sanity.

When you find legislators willing to make true cuts (not just reductions in the rate of growth), let us know so we can vote for them. Of course people hate spending cuts and tax increases, but that's why we give legislators the power of the purse. They are supposed to make the tough choices, hammer out the hard deals, and compromise. If they were smart, the parties would realize that they need to come to the center to avoid getting thrashed in the next election. They would realize that they couldn't afford to make things so lopsided that when the pendulum swung them out of power they would get thrashed.

These are supposed to be smart, seasoned and sober people, capable of compromising and making good deals. Quite frankly, they SHOULD only serve one or two terms, make some hard choices and go back home, not make a life-long career out of it.

 

[AntonToo]

Musk was awarded options in 2012 as part of a compensation plan. Because he doesn’t take a salary or cash bonus, his wealth comes from stock awards and the gains in Tesla’s share price. The 2012 award was for 22.8 million shares at a strike price of $6.24 per share. Tesla shares closed at $1,222.09 on Friday, meaning his gain on the shares totals just under $28 billion.

The company has also recently disclosed that Musk has taken out loans using his shares as collateral, and with the sales, Musk may want to repay some of those loan obligations.

As Tesla noted in its third-quarter Securities and Exchange Commission 10-Q filing this year: “If the price of our common stock were to decline substantially, Mr. Musk may be forced by one or more of the banking institutions to sell shares of Tesla common stock to satisfy his loan obligations if he could not do so through other means. Any such sales could cause the price of our common stock to decline further.”

The options expire in August of next year. Yet in order to exercise them, Musk has to pay the income tax on the gain. Since the options are taxed as an employee benefit or compensation, they will be taxed at top ordinary-income levels, or 37% plus the 3.8% net investment tax. He will also have to pay the 13.3% top tax rate in California since the options were granted and mostly earned while he was a California tax resident.

Combined, the state and federal tax rate will be 54.1%. So the total tax bill on his options, at the current price, would be $15 billion.

Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock

Elon Musk faces a tax bill of over $15 billion in the coming months on stock options, making a sale of Tesla stock this year likely regardless of the Twitter vote.

www.cnbc.com

You were saying?

I was saying `5% which is what he is so far paying on the wealth growth he has had over the last decade.

In 2012 Musk was worth 2 billion. Today it is 280 billion and so with 12 billion or so he paid on taxes that is about 5% effective tax rate.

Why don't you just read and UNDERSTAND what people are saying before responding? Will save time for both of us.

 

[hadit]

It's about a more fair taxation system.

Want to tax Bill Gates and other rich liberals more? Support the minimum tax reforms. Show them up.

I don't know if you've noticed, but I don't really get too bothered by the wealthy paying small percentages in taxes.

1. They pump a whole lot more into the economy than I can. Paris Hilton, for example, can spend more on one weekend shopping trip than I can in a year.
2. Taxing them more is not going to have any significant impact on the federal budget. There's just not that much income to tax.
3. I don't envy them their wealth and don't really want them punished for being successful. I'd rather my tax bill go in their direction than theirs to go in mine.

I simply find it interesting that some apparently believe Bill Gates actually wants to pay more in taxes when his actions say otherwise. If he wanted to, he could, but he won't, because he doesn't want to.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I was saying `5% which is what he is so far paying on the wealth growth he has had over the last decade.

Yeah, he didn't pay income tax on something that wasn't income.

Why don't you just read and UNDERSTAND what people are saying before responding?

I understood what you said and pointed out your errors.

 

[AntonToo]

First of all, what are the reasonable tax rates? Then, living a lavish lifestyle has nothing to do with income. Many people in this world who have no income are living a lavish lifestyle.

It seems that you just have a problem with people living large

We can have this more-or-less discussion, but that rate is CERTAINLY not 5% EM has effectively paid and it's not ~8% richest people in America have paid. Those rates are obscenely low compared to the rates middle class pays and is certainly undermining our long term fiscal stability.

 

[AntonToo]

Yeah, he didn't pay income tax on something that wasn't income.

No bs, true income, is the comulative increase in wealth plus whatever you've spent along the way.

That is what minimum taxation should be based on.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

true income, is the comulative increase in wealth plus whatever you've spent along the way.

No such thing in tax law.

 

[GHook20]

Which is it, the 700 richest Americans or anyone who earns is worth more than $100 million.

That's probably not even constitutional since it violates the takings clause

“Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
These are taxes levied against wages on the super rich. This is not taking their property for public use but taxing their property.
Biden has reached new heights of idiocy. Does he actually believe any Republican is going to vote for that?

Biden plans to unveil new 20% 'minimum tax' on billionaires​

the worlds richest men, including Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, have much of their wealth in the form of stock.​

​

As their stock rises in value, they are able to finance lavish lifestyles by taking out loans secured by their stock holdings. But loans are not taxed as income, and in many cases the interest payments are tax deductible.​

​

The rising value of stock holdings -- known as unrealized gains -- is also not taxed as income. Capital gains taxes are only imposed when the stock is sold.​

​

s a result, some 400 billionaire families paid an average federal tax rate of just over 8 percent of their income between 2010 and 2018, according to an estimate from the White House Office of Management and Budget and Council of Economic Advisers.​

​

However, critics of a 'wealth tax' argue that treating unrealized gains as income is unfair and could lead to unintended consequences.​

​

If billionaires are forced to pay taxes on the rising values of their stocks, even before they sell them at a profit, they could be forced to sell off control of companies that they founded in order to pay their tax bills, critics say.​

​

Under Biden's new plan, billionaires already paying more than 20 percent in federal taxes would not owe additional taxes, according to the Post.​

​

The taxes paid toward the minimum tax would count toward whatever billionaires owe whenever they sell their stock and pay ordinary capital gains taxes.​

​

'The Billionaire Minimum Income Tax will ensure that the very wealthiest Americans pay a tax rate of at least 20 percent on their full income,'​

​

'This minimum tax would make sure that the wealthiest Americans no longer pay a tax rate lower than teachers and firefighters.'​

My fear is the slippery slope that it can lead to bar getting lowered gradually. As the Scandinavian welfare safety funding has shown, you can only squeeze so much from the Uber wealthy and even the well off ($450k to $1 mil), eventually you have to tax the middle class to fund the type of welfare systems the Demorats want.

My fear is the uber rich today, well off tomorrow, and the middle class after that.

The bigger issue is this seems more of a power play to position the GOP as the party of the rich and win back the working class Latinos.

That said I hope the GOP doesn’t fight too hard against this…. the one thing that is true, if you have over $100 mil you can afford it!

 

[AntonToo]

No such thing in tax law.

Well that's exactly what this thread is about.

Did you read the OP? It's about a 20% min tax proposal that would apply to even unrealized stock growth.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well that's exactly what this thread is about.

Did you read the OP? It's about a 20% min tax proposal that would apply to even unrealized stock growth.

I read it. It's a stupid idea.

 

[bripat9643]

Billionaires like Bezos support Biden so they deserve this. Correct? What is the problem?

The obviously deserve it, but the rest of us don't.