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You really don't understand finance at all, do you? For example, if I made $50K last year and I spent $70K in the same time period (last year) does that mean I had to borrow money?
You really don't understand finance at all, do you? For example, if I made $50K last year and I spent $70K in the same time period (last year) does that mean I had to borrow money?
Okay let's pretend you are government here and the 50k you 'made' is the total tax revenue in your acct (treasury) for the year and the 70k you 'spent' is the cost of the medical resources . With me so far? At the very least you still owe 20k. Where or when are you going to come up with the money?
You really don't understand finance at all, do you? For example, if I made $50K last year and I spent $70K in the same time period (last year) does that mean I had to borrow money?
Okay let's pretend you are government here and the 50k you 'made' is the total tax revenue in your acct (treasury) for the year and the 70k you 'spent' is the cost of the medical resources . With me so far? At the very least you still owe 20k. Where or when are you going to come up with the money?
Savings or the selling of assets
If you don't make enough to cover your bills, you take money out of savings or you sell some assets.
You have an extremely simplistic understanding of finance. You have demonstrated that you don't know how the govt finances its' programs and that you don't even understand the basics of finance by claiming the deficits MUST be financed with loans.
Worst of all, your arguing that the US can't afford a health care system that is less expensive. According to you, if we adopt a health care system that costs less, it will bankrupt us.
Okay let's pretend you are government here and the 50k you 'made' is the total tax revenue in your acct (treasury) for the year and the 70k you 'spent' is the cost of the medical resources . With me so far? At the very least you still owe 20k. Where or when are you going to come up with the money?
Savings or the selling of assets
If you don't make enough to cover your bills, you take money out of savings or you sell some assets.
You have an extremely simplistic understanding of finance. You have demonstrated that you don't know how the govt finances its' programs and that you don't even understand the basics of finance by claiming the deficits MUST be financed with loans.
Worst of all, your arguing that the US can't afford a health care system that is less expensive. According to you, if we adopt a health care system that costs less, it will bankrupt us.
I claimed no such thing. I claimed loans were ONE way to pay off deficits. The point was you have to pay them somehow. Secondly, unless you plan on government taking over the resources and mandating what an entire industry can make, you are not making it cost less. You're simply shifting who is paying for it.
Back to our scenario; You're going to pay for the extra 20k with your savings and selling some assets, hmm? So you admit that you are spending more than you take in and you plan on making up the difference by selling your assets and going into your savings and you are telling me that is a sustainable pattern? Yeah, pretty sure it isn't me that doesn't understand finance.
Sure you did, but I'm getting used to your denying what you said
And the govts of France and the US have plenty of assets, and plenty of savings. You are once again making stuff up with your talk of "taking over resources" when I spoke of the govt "selling off resources". Only an ignoramus like you would think "selling assets" means "taking over assets"
And yes, dipping into your savings in order to invest is a sustainable pattern. In fact, it is the only sustainable pattern. No nation has ever increased its' productivity without investing some of its assets. No nation has created a booming economy without some debt.
Sure you did, but I'm getting used to your denying what you said
And I'm getting used to you putting words in my mouth.
And the govts of France and the US have plenty of assets, and plenty of savings. You are once again making stuff up with your talk of "taking over resources" when I spoke of the govt "selling off resources". Only an ignoramus like you would think "selling assets" means "taking over assets"
Well if we have the savings and assets what is all the hub bub about our 14 trillion dollar debt? Let's just dip into the treasuries assets and savings you claim they have and be done with it.
P.S. note the U.S. treasury seems to be in a bit of disagreement with you about whether their in debt or not.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
And yes, dipping into your savings in order to invest is a sustainable pattern. In fact, it is the only sustainable pattern. No nation has ever increased its' productivity without investing some of its assets. No nation has created a booming economy without some debt.
Over time no it isn't. If you spend more than you generate in income every year, forcing you to dip into your savings and asets every year, you eventaully will run out of saving and assets. Then you will be in debt for real.
I love the way you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of finance. Most people have debt. That doesn't mean that they don't have any savings. Every nation has debt. So does every state in the US. The US govt has spent more than it took in every year of my lifetime. And the economy has steadily grown, out pacing the growth in debt.
I regularly spend more than I make in a year. I borrow money from the bank, and then I lend it out at a higher interest rate. I spend more in one than I make in order to make more money the following year. I end up with a profit.
I love the way you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of finance. Most people have debt. That doesn't mean that they don't have any savings. Every nation has debt. So does every state in the US. The US govt has spent more than it took in every year of my lifetime. And the economy has steadily grown, out pacing the growth in debt.
......and our economy just collapsed a couple years ago and millions of homes are being foreclosed and why? Because a lot of people took on more debt then they could handle.
I regularly spend more than I make in a year. I borrow money from the bank, and then I lend it out at a higher interest rate. I spend more in one than I make in order to make more money the following year. I end up with a profit.
You claimed the treasury has savings and assets to make up for what it doesn't take in in tax revenue. So I ask again, if they do indeed have those things, why don't we just pay off the 14 trillion dollar debt and be done with it?
I love the way you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of finance. Most people have debt. That doesn't mean that they don't have any savings. Every nation has debt. So does every state in the US. The US govt has spent more than it took in every year of my lifetime. And the economy has steadily grown, out pacing the growth in debt.
......and our economy just collapsed a couple years ago and millions of homes are being foreclosed and why? Because a lot of people took on more debt then they could handle.
No, the economy went south due to a lack of govt solutions (ie regulations)
I regularly spend more than I make in a year. I borrow money from the bank, and then I lend it out at a higher interest rate. I spend more in one than I make in order to make more money the following year. I end up with a profit.
You claimed the treasury has savings and assets to make up for what it doesn't take in in tax revenue. So I ask again, if they do indeed have those things, why don't we just pay off the 14 trillion dollar debt and be done with it?
Because, they can either pay off debt (which produces nothing useful) or they can invest it and wait for the economy to grow enough to make the debt negligible which is how we became the richest nation in the world.
Once again, you are demonstrating your ignorance of finance.
I love the way you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of finance. Most people have debt. That doesn't mean that they don't have any savings. Every nation has debt. So does every state in the US. The US govt has spent more than it took in every year of my lifetime. And the economy has steadily grown, out pacing the growth in debt.
......and our economy just collapsed a couple years ago and millions of homes are being foreclosed and why? Because a lot of people took on more debt then they could handle.
No, the economy went south due to a lack of govt solutions (ie regulations)
I regularly spend more than I make in a year. I borrow money from the bank, and then I lend it out at a higher interest rate. I spend more in one than I make in order to make more money the following year. I end up with a profit.
You claimed the treasury has savings and assets to make up for what it doesn't take in in tax revenue. So I ask again, if they do indeed have those things, why don't we just pay off the 14 trillion dollar debt and be done with it?
Because, they can either pay off debt (which produces nothing useful) or they can invest it and wait for the economy to grow enough to make the debt negligible which is how we became the richest nation in the world.
Once again, you are demonstrating your ignorance of finance.
......and our economy just collapsed a couple years ago and millions of homes are being foreclosed and why? Because a lot of people took on more debt then they could handle.
No, the economy went south due to a lack of govt solutions (ie regulations)
You claimed the treasury has savings and assets to make up for what it doesn't take in in tax revenue. So I ask again, if they do indeed have those things, why don't we just pay off the 14 trillion dollar debt and be done with it?
Because, they can either pay off debt (which produces nothing useful) or they can invest it and wait for the economy to grow enough to make the debt negligible which is how we became the richest nation in the world.
Once again, you are demonstrating your ignorance of finance.
You're having a hard time keeping up with your own stories Sangha. First it was government doesn't really owe anyone because they pay everyone out of their savings and assets (still waiting for evidence btw, on how much of the tax revenue gets put into this savings account). Then you see we do actually run a 14 trillion dollar debt (not deficit) and your story changes to well, that 14 trillion dollars really is no big deal even that it's still increasing.
And after all your wiggling you still don't understand how spending more than you take in, year after year after year, regardless of what department or country, is unsustainable. If it's sustainable why is France having to re-evalauate what it will pay for?
You're having a hard time keeping up with your own stories Sangha. First it was government doesn't really owe anyone because they pay everyone out of their savings and assets (still waiting for evidence btw, on how much of the tax revenue gets put into this savings account). Then you see we do actually run a 14 trillion dollar debt (not deficit) and your story changes to well, that 14 trillion dollars really is no big deal even that it's still increasing.
And after all your wiggling you still don't understand how spending more than you take in, year after year after year, regardless of what department or country, is unsustainable. If it's sustainable why is France having to re-evalauate what it will pay for?
You have been reduced to flat out lying
When did I ever say the govt doesn't really own anyone? When did I say $14T is "no big deal"?
Neither the DoD nor Frances' health care system borrow money to fund their deficits, so there is nothing to pay off over time. Once again, you're claiming that taxpayers are expecting a refund from the DoD.
The DoD doesn't collect anything in taxes. The IRS does. The money goes into the treasury. The treasury GIVES, not loans, all $100 million to the DoD because that's what an act of congress orders them to do.
They do run deficits. They don't have to borrow money to pay for them. Instead, the legislature passes an appropriations bill which instructs the treasury to supply the money. There is no loan. There is no credit card. There is no interest.
you said ALL 100 million of the budget gets paid through a combinatino of tax revenue, assets and savings appropriated from the treasury
It's going up just like the debt on the French health care system
Explain to me how that number can continue to increase and still be called sustainable.
No, I didn't yo moron. I said the Treasury gives the DoD the entire $100M. I see you're still ignorant about how the DoD and the Treasury are financed. Here it is again. Maybe this time it will sink in.
The French health care system has no debt. It has a budget deficit. Thanks for demonstrating, once again, that you don't know the difference between a debt and a deficit
I explained it already, but I'll explain it again in the hopes that it will eventually sink in
You can continuously increase your debt and keep it sustainable by increasing your wealth faster that you increase your debt. If my debt doubles every year while my welath quadruples, I will grow wealthier and wealthier.
No, I didn't yo moron. I said the Treasury gives the DoD the entire $100M. I see you're still ignorant about how the DoD and the Treasury are financed. Here it is again. Maybe this time it will sink in.
The statements 'the DoD gets all of its budget' and 'the treasury pays all of the DoDs budget' are pragmatically different how exactly? Either way you're still telling me that whatever the DoDs budget is that's how much money the treasury gives them. Yet we have a 14 trillion dollar debt, so your telling me yes we have debt, but none if belongs to the DoD?
The French health care system has no debt. It has a budget deficit. Thanks for demonstrating, once again, that you don't know the difference between a debt and a deficit
I think it's you who doesn't know the difference.
Explain to me how that number can continue to increase and still be called sustainable.
I explained it already, but I'll explain it again in the hopes that it will eventually sink in
You can continuously increase your debt and keep it sustainable by increasing your wealth faster that you increase your debt. If my debt doubles every year while my welath quadruples, I will grow wealthier and wealthier.
The US govt has a debt. The DoD does not.
Then I'm sure you can post something that proves that Frances health care system has a debt. I'll wait
The US govt has a debt. The DoD does not.
Semantics, sangha. I fail to see how the fact that the debt belongs to our government somehow makes it all okay.
Then I'm sure you can post something that proves that Frances health care system has a debt. I'll wait
Deficit is how much is borrowed in a year,
debt is the accumulated deficit over several years.
Pretending for a second this is the first year France had a deficit, the statements 'France ran a deficit of 9 billion dollars for its health care system' and 'France has a 9 billion dollar debt for its health care system' are both true statements.
[/quote]Next year France is projecting a budget defecit of 11 billion for its health care system. Assuming they were to pay off none of last years deficit they will have an accumulated debt of 20 billion dollars. Do YOU get it yet?
Facts, bern. Facts
I know you don't like the facts, can't remember the facts, or understand the facts, but it's still a fact
Wrong. Deficits are not how much is borrowed in a year. Once again, the DoD has a deficit for more than two centuries. It has no debt
IOW, you don't have any proof that frances' health care system has a debt, so you'll just repeat the claim and pretend you have proof
Facts, bern. Facts
I know you don't like the facts, can't remember the facts, or understand the facts, but it's still a fact
Some of them are facts. Unfortunately for you they are facts that can't occur at the same time. Our government can't be in debt AND have a treasury department that always happens to have the money to fully fund every depts. budget.
Wrong. Deficits are not how much is borrowed in a year. Once again, the DoD has a deficit for more than two centuries. It has no debt
Yes deficits are how much you borrow in a year. A deficit strictly speaking is a shortage. In this case of money. You can word it however you think you need to, we'll just say you have some interesting accounting. Ultimately the DoD spends more than what the treasury can provide, putting the treasury and the government in debt.
the amount by which a sum of money falls short of the required amount.
2. the amount by which expenditures or liabilities exceed income or assets.
3. a lack or shortage; deficiency.
4. a disadvantage, impairment, or handicap: The team's major deficit is its poor pitching.
5. a loss, as in the operation of a business.
IOW, you don't have any proof that frances' health care system has a debt, so you'll just repeat the claim and pretend you have proof
You mean like you, who has not been able to show how our 14 trillion dollar and growing debt can be paid and why it constitutes sustainability? That kind of proof? Time will tell ultimately and time is already showing that at least what France originally said they would fund was not sustainable as they are in the process of making cuts. Apparently deficits are a bigger deal to them then they are to you.
French government to tackle surging health care deficit | Reuters
