Promoting Islamophobia

[toxicmedia]

I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.

I've already prayed for you and Protectionist, but not for your benefit. I did it so your intellectually repulsive intolerance doesn't corrupt me and cause some of my own. I did it in private as well.

I'm not Muslim, I'm a Presbyterian.

Now, you are simply lying. You insinuated that I wanted to kill Muslims. Your exact words were "I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?".

You can claim all you want by way of your own religion, but you are certainly opposing Jesus' actual teachings on the subject. The term as usually transcribed to portray this sort of stunt you are trying to pull is "play actor".

It shouldn't be difficult to find since it is quite early on in the N.T, but I would be happy to point it out to you since it does not appear that you have ever read it.

You never answered my question...which was "I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?"....that's what that little question mark thingy is all about.

Jesus taught me tolerance.

 

[toxicmedia]

You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.

Islam doesn't kill people...people kill people.

You would need to prove that those people, would not have killed 270 million people, without Islam ever having existed. Which is not possible.

So many aspects of the trouble Muslim countries have pre-dated Islam.

Some times other cultures are just scary for Xenophobes.

Causality?

You are so naive and ignorant as to think ideology does not motivate action?

I suppose it is easier for you to remain completely ignorant of the dictates of the ideology involved so as to defend it like you do, and it must also help to reduce any reaction to it to your own degree of simple-mindedness by calling it "xenophobia", but this amounts to nothing more than putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah, nyah, nyah"

You don't want to know what Islam is all about, you are too afraid to know, you are too simple-minded to know and operate from the perspective that anybody who does know is a great big bad poopoohead.

To think that here we have an ideology where the majority supports KILLING those who leave the ideology, and complete numb nuts are defending it because they somehow feel safer living in complete denial than by learning anything.

I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

Depends where you lived in the Middle East, and under what regime. For example, if under a secular dictator, then there was very little tolerance for Islamists and Islamic intolerance. On the other hand if you happened to live in a country who's name was prefaced with "Islamic republic of............", right there you know you're around some pretty medieval shariah Neanderthals who need little or no brainwashing or "recruiting", as they're already off their rockers. So it seems you learned very little from your short time in the Middle East.

You've never been there, yet you try to tell me how I should feel about having been there.

Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

That's where I was.

I've had many lengthy conversations with people in parts of those countries about politics, because Turks, Kurds, and Arabs love to talk politics over some tea.

What percentage of the following demographics do you think practice your description of Islam in it's malignant form?

Kurds, all regions:

Sunni Muslims,

Alevi Muslims:

Shiite Muslims:

First of all those were all secular countries, with the exception of Iran, which was secular during the Shah's time. Although in secular countries most people don't subscribe to "radical islam", it is only because the leadership doesn't allow the Islamists to preach true Islam which in my opinion is what "radical Islam" is. And even in those secular countries, there is still a lot of religious based prejudice towards people of other faiths, especially Jews. They are considered dirty and not to be trusted. In fact, the intolerance is based on the teachings of the Koran where Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens with less rights. Hence Dhimmitude which was Islamic apartheid which many Muslim countries practice to this day.

You are not the only one who's lived there and is familiar with the culture. Just because you tied the knot with a Muslim it doesn't absolve Islam or the rampant hatred and intolerance in Muslim societies.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I didn't hear any Muslims in the middle east talk about that.

 

[toxicmedia]

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

.

Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however. The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.

How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths, the Muslim world seems to be all about hatred and violence, especially towards non Muslims. Does that cover each and every Muslim individual? No, but Muslims generally are born and raised in traditional religious families, and therefore are generally taught to hold certain beliefs towards others. This is an inescapable fact.

I've seen intolerance on both sides, usually with about the same frequency.

I just seen more lawlessness in general in rural middle eastern towns because those rural people tend to be more conservative, religious, and less exposed to the outside world.

The facts you offer are contradicted by my experiences, thus, easily escapable

 

[toxicmedia]

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...

As you so clearly demonstrate?

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?

 

[Roudy]

Causality?

You are so naive and ignorant as to think ideology does not motivate action?

I suppose it is easier for you to remain completely ignorant of the dictates of the ideology involved so as to defend it like you do, and it must also help to reduce any reaction to it to your own degree of simple-mindedness by calling it "xenophobia", but this amounts to nothing more than putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah, nyah, nyah"

You don't want to know what Islam is all about, you are too afraid to know, you are too simple-minded to know and operate from the perspective that anybody who does know is a great big bad poopoohead.

To think that here we have an ideology where the majority supports KILLING those who leave the ideology, and complete numb nuts are defending it because they somehow feel safer living in complete denial than by learning anything.

I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

Depends where you lived in the Middle East, and under what regime. For example, if under a secular dictator, then there was very little tolerance for Islamists and Islamic intolerance. On the other hand if you happened to live in a country who's name was prefaced with "Islamic republic of............", right there you know you're around some pretty medieval shariah Neanderthals who need little or no brainwashing or "recruiting", as they're already off their rockers. So it seems you learned very little from your short time in the Middle East.

You've never been there, yet you try to tell me how I should feel about having been there.

Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

That's where I was.

I've had many lengthy conversations with people in parts of those countries about politics, because Turks, Kurds, and Arabs love to talk politics over some tea.

What percentage of the following demographics do you think practice your description of Islam in it's malignant form?

Kurds, all regions:

Sunni Muslims,

Alevi Muslims:

Shiite Muslims:

First of all those were all secular countries, with the exception of Iran, which was secular during the Shah's time. Although in secular countries most people don't subscribe to "radical islam", it is only because the leadership doesn't allow the Islamists to preach true Islam which in my opinion is what "radical Islam" is. And even in those secular countries, there is still a lot of religious based prejudice towards people of other faiths, especially Jews. They are considered dirty and not to be trusted. In fact, the intolerance is based on the teachings of the Koran where Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens with less rights. Hence Dhimmitude which was Islamic apartheid which many Muslim countries practice to this day.

You are not the only one who's lived there and is familiar with the culture. Just because you tied the knot with a Muslim it doesn't absolve Islam or the rampant hatred and intolerance in Muslim societies.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I didn't hear any Muslims in the middle east talk about that.

Yeah, that's better, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe if you LOOKED Muslim but without them knowing was actually a Jew, then they'd tell you they realły feel about Jews and Christians.

Also, you claim to have lived in five Muslim countries in in four years?

That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

 

[Roudy]

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...

As you so clearly demonstrate?

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?

Anger? Hardly. But have you read some of Billy the bully's posts? There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts.

 

[Kondor3]

...As far as YOU have observed. .

As I freely admitted.

...I no longer give a flying F about what impression I give my "colleagues" because I've long realized they will see what they WANT to see and nothing I say will make any difference. Wiser people than I stay away from these discussions and I understand why...

Have you considered the possibility that the reason why nothing you say is making a difference is not because your counterparts want to see a certain thing, but because they, too, have carefully considered this state of affairs, and are convinced of the accuracy of their own conclusions?

...Out of all the anti-Muslim threads here - how many do I actually participate in? A couple to a handful. So much for impressions - they don't count for much in terms of accuracy...

I don't keep track. I spoke based upon impressions, which are, by definition, subject to error.

...What ever...

Indeed.

...Islam is a religion. It is no different than Judiasm...

Therein lies the core of the dispute - and all the automatic gainsay in the world will not prove you nor I to be right.

...Christianity lies between the two and most certainly has it's expansionist creed and share of violence...

The difference being that Jesus of Nazareth did not voice such a creed nor encourage violence and warfare.

Those were accretions and grotesque rationalizations added to the nuclear dogma of that belief system in its early centuries, and were not authorized or advanced by either its Founder nor in its successor holy writ - the New Testament.

Islam - on the other hand - had such permissions to wage war and to commit violence and to lie - voiced and advanced by the Founder himself, and these permissions and encouragements and examples and criteria absolutely saturate its holy writ.

...Yet they are all religions...

Nobody argues that Islam does not have a strong religious component.

What distinguishes it from its counterparts are (1) its propensity for the encouraging of violence and (2) its cultural diktats and legal scheme - still operative and extant.

...Islam has shown itself to be compatible with the west - just look at Islam in our own country. In Canada. In many parts of the west...

Yes. We all see what happens within Islamic immigrant communities, with respect to the suppression and oppression of women, their quiet demeanor until their population reaches a tipping point, after which they start making demands for local cultural changes and the imposition of Sharia, their strident condemnation of our own culture and practices and mores, and their support of Islamic activism and violence in other parts of the world. And one need look no further than the United Kingdom or Germany or France or other parts of Europe, to see how uncontrolled immigration of and accommodation for Islamic newcomers tends to turn the neighborhood or town or region into a bastion of intolerance.

...despite the rabid rhetoric of people like Pamela Geller etc - there is little actual data to show that the majority of the Muslim population in those countries do not support western ideals. They may not be "liberal" - but they support laws and democratic underpinnings of those countries...

Screw the hard data.

We need to look no further than David Cameron's or Angela Merkel's observations that multiculturalism (for that, read, accommodation of Muslims) is not working, and that the newcomers and their behaviors are beginning to pose a threat to those countries and cultures.

...Your truth is not necessarily THE truth...

Correct.

But my money is on my truth, rather than yours, with respect to Islam.

...Islam is merely a religion...

No it's not.

It's a warrior's creed. It's a medieval cultural and legal straight-jacket that encourages theocracy and cultural regression and retardation, and the grotesque repression of women.

...Beyond that - are there problems? Yes, I agree. Too much of the Muslim world is set in a medievil mindset and culture that is incompatable with modern ideals. The rise of Islamic Extremism is a serious concern - and, I might add, a serious concern TO the Islamic world in general...

When they (1) experience a profound and substantive Reformation and (2) reach a tipping point with Old vs. New within their own domains and (3) renounce religious warfare and violence and (4) forswear the intolerance for other religions and cultures that is so deeply ingrained within their belief system - then wake me up, and I'll take another look.

...But your "truth" would paint this complicated problem in black and white/good and evil - and it isn't...

Correct. It's not black and white. There are, indeed, grey areas, including the struggle of 'modern' Muslims to reconcile their faith with the modern world. But they are vastly outnumbered by co-religionists whose philosophical and cultural and spiritual minds are still stuck in the 7th Century or thereabouts.

...There is the religion as whole, which is no different than any of the other major religions...

Again, another restatement of this core difference.... I say that it is different... right down to its roots and foundation.

...and that varies considerably as to how it is practiced and viewed by it's adherents around the world (evidenced by PEW research) and there are the problems that exist among elements of that religion and the cultures behind them...

Nolo contendere... no contest.

...Recognizing this is not "unconditionally" defending Islam - it's preventing an "unconditional" hatred of a religion that would see it's followers marginalized, penalized, deported, or stript of their legal rights for no other reason than that of faith...

Your insistence upon treating Islam in a manner identical to that of any other religion echoes the very best traditions of the American Spirit and its devotion to egalitarianism at-law for everyone, regardless of their beliefs

The only flaw in that, in the context of Islam in The West, is a failure to recognize the hostility and danger emanating from this hybrid belief system, and the cynical behavior of its adherents in The West, to utilize our own tolerance and goodwill, in order to better entrench their own intolerant and hostile practices, safe under the shield we provide them.

...Extremism is dangerous and fundamentalism, regardless of faith - is often at odds with modern ideals.

Agreed.

Which is why The West must keep such a close eye on Islam, and why we must not delude ourselves about its nature - thinking it harmless and compatible, when it is not.

 

[Roudy]

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

.

Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however. The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.

How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths, the Muslim world seems to be all about hatred and violence, especially towards non Muslims. Does that cover each and every Muslim individual? No, but Muslims generally are born and raised in traditional religious families, and therefore are generally taught to hold certain beliefs towards others. This is an inescapable fact.

I've seen intolerance on both sides, usually with about the same frequency.

I just seen more lawlessness in general in rural middle eastern towns because those rural people tend to be more conservative, religious, and less exposed to the outside world.

The facts you offer are contradicted by my experiences, thus, easily escapable

I don't think your experience compares to mine. So I wouldn't go around bragging about experience. You lived in secular dictatorship countries in a shielded manner. Since you're a foreigner you obviously didn't speak their language, probably just enough to get around. So, in other words your "experience" is of no real value, the equivalent of a tourist. If you want to know how life was really like for minorities in Muslim countries, I suggest you get in touch with some Christians or Jews who were born and raised there, and had to leave. Which is what I am.

 

[Kondor3]

...Having lived there between 2000-2004...

That's nice.

...It's understandable that you'd resist what I'm telling you, because you want to feel like you're right...

Spare me the patronizing cushion.

I have no doubt that you are faithfully relaying the conclusions that you drew from personal experience.

...I said nothing about the world at large, only what I know about the MANY Muslims in Turkey, and parts of Iran, Iraq, and Syria that I spoke with...

I was not dwelling upon the world at large, merely reflecting that the world is much smaller now, and that a microcosm of personal experience is easily offset with good attention to news and multiple assessments of current events and participants and motivations and such.

...The standing of my credibility with people who've never been to the middle east, regarding Muslims in the middle east, couldn't be less important to me. You can either believe me, or not...

Your credibility in such matters is substantively identical to those reasonably well-read on the subject.

...I think the misleading impression some get from my point comes from a ego driven fear of being mistaken...

Or, alternatively, in the suspicion that your conclusions are the result of myopic personal experience and not sufficient for dealing with topic on the macro level.

...It's quite simple...and it goes like this: For every 10 people, anywhere, there are 6 ordinary people trying to live their lives according to their own unique customs and traditions. There is also 1 Saint, 1 Criminal, 1 Leader, and 1 Loser. That's what I've found to hold true, of the people I've met, in Asia, the middle east, and America. It's that simple...

Oh, heck, I'll go you one better, and say that 90 out of 100 are ordinary people, trying to live their lives, with 1 saint, 1 criminal, 1 leader, 1 loser, and 6 radicals ripe for the picking.

Trouble is, within the domains of Islam, those 6 Radicals practice a belief-system whose Founder gave his followers permission to wage war and to commit violence and to lie under various circumstances, and these permissions are repeatedly reinforced and outlined in the holy writ of that belief system, which makes it more prone and susceptible to violence and which promises its warriors an automatic free elevator ride to Paradise and fleshy delights if they should die in the prosecution of such a war or struggle.

...The ideology people who patronize and/or fund anti Muslim interests in America promote, is not dissimilar to how Muslim extremists/criminals recruit the marginalized in that region...

The difference being that the American anti-Muslim folk aren't calling for the death of Muslims and the destruction of the Muslim component of human civilization.

...The scope of the success of that type of recruiting is enhanced when poverty, disenfranchisement, and religious extremism are present...

That's the formula, alrght, across teh board.

...The relative success street gangs have in areas in the US, come from the same recruiting tactics...

At least those gangs only want 42nd Street... they're not looking to slaughter Infidels and to wipe-out Infidel civilization.

...Protectionist and that other guy's position seems to demonize Islam, and Muslims, without much exception...

Understandable, when you're dealing with a belief-system that is so alien and hostile and incompatible with your own culture and society and beliefs, although it is, of course, possible to go to excess, even when prosecuting a point against a dangerous opponent.

...I can't get them to offer percentages of Muslims they think are too far gone, and deserve to be killed

They can speak for themselves... as much as I dislike and distrust the belief system, I can't go down that road myself, except in defense of our country, in an other-worldly case of extremis that is unlikely to materialize in the universe which we inhabit.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Jesus taught me tolerance.

It wasn't Jesus who taught you lying.

 

[Kondor3]

This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.

There is a lot to be said about this, most notably that having access to such instantaneious and broad communications does not imply accuracy by any stretch of the word.

Instantanious means - without pause for reflection, critique, research or a regard for truth. "Broad communications" means anyone can say anything with the same degree of "believability". It means accountability is non-existant. Rumors become "fact" in a the blink of an eye and a million circulated "hoaxes". Critical thinking is not imparted with each rendition. A press of the button circulates the word around the world.

It also means that each of us can choose our news sources and, if we want, create our own echo chambers of news and opinions that reflect our own views. We don't have to be challanged if we don't want to and we can easily have our own views affirmed without discomfort.

I think it's good to be challenged and I'll admit my views have been challanged, I've questioned some of my assumptions, and come through with a broader perspective in some areas of debate - most notably in IP. In that debate - I've also gained insight from people (on both sides of the issue) who have actually traveled or lived there. I don't always agree, because all of us have our bias' but their personal experiences add a depth that might otherwise be lacking.

Agreed, in large part.

Personal experience can certainly add "cred-points" to a presentation.

But it should not and cannot be allowed to serve as a substitute for a realistic macro-level view for others who are well-informed through other means.

And, of course, you're right that instantaneous global communication does not equate to truth or accuracy or serviceable interpretation of fact and data and opinion.

But instantaneous global communication makes information available to vastly larger audiences than could possibly otherwise match such personal experience.

Analysis of that information requires the same measure of intellectual capacity, objectivity, and common sense, that would be required to filter a personal experience.

Either you have the knack of sorting through the fluff and finding substance and properly analyzing same or you do not.

But it seems likely that far more people can field meritorious argument on the subject in modern times than would have been possible solely through personal experience.

And with that middle ground in mind, I'll speculate that we've covered the issue of Personal Experience versus Instantaneous Communications adequately.

 

[Billo_Really]

Anger? Hardly. But have you read some of Billy the bully's posts? There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts.

That's the 2nd time you've accused me of that, so let's just see, shall we?

Roudy say's:
"There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts"

Here's my last 10 posts:



Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 1
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 1
aggression = 0​

Roudy count:

anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​

So lets review...

Out of my last 10 posts, there have been (0) counts of anger, (2) counts of profanity and (0) counts of aggression.

Shall we take a look at your last 10?

 

[Billo_Really]

And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?

"Anger" is Roudy's BFF.

He's afraid of not hating.

 

[Kondor3]

And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?

"Anger" is Roudy's BFF.

He's afraid of not hating.

Switched-up tactics, have ya, Junior, and trying to re-package yourself as the Voice of Reason?

Those who have been dealing with you for a while know better.

You're not fooling anybody, except the newest kids on the block.

And most of them will have you figured-out soon enough, as well.

Still, it's good that you're trying.

Allah loves "try-ers", too.

Now... if you're through playing patty-cake with Roudy, and if you're through de-railing the thread, feel free to contribute something substantive to the thread topic.

 

[toxicmedia]

I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

Depends where you lived in the Middle East, and under what regime. For example, if under a secular dictator, then there was very little tolerance for Islamists and Islamic intolerance. On the other hand if you happened to live in a country who's name was prefaced with "Islamic republic of............", right there you know you're around some pretty medieval shariah Neanderthals who need little or no brainwashing or "recruiting", as they're already off their rockers. So it seems you learned very little from your short time in the Middle East.

You've never been there, yet you try to tell me how I should feel about having been there.

Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

That's where I was.

I've had many lengthy conversations with people in parts of those countries about politics, because Turks, Kurds, and Arabs love to talk politics over some tea.

What percentage of the following demographics do you think practice your description of Islam in it's malignant form?

Kurds, all regions:

Sunni Muslims,

Alevi Muslims:

Shiite Muslims:

First of all those were all secular countries, with the exception of Iran, which was secular during the Shah's time. Although in secular countries most people don't subscribe to "radical islam", it is only because the leadership doesn't allow the Islamists to preach true Islam which in my opinion is what "radical Islam" is. And even in those secular countries, there is still a lot of religious based prejudice towards people of other faiths, especially Jews. They are considered dirty and not to be trusted. In fact, the intolerance is based on the teachings of the Koran where Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens with less rights. Hence Dhimmitude which was Islamic apartheid which many Muslim countries practice to this day.

You are not the only one who's lived there and is familiar with the culture. Just because you tied the knot with a Muslim it doesn't absolve Islam or the rampant hatred and intolerance in Muslim societies.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I didn't hear any Muslims in the middle east talk about that.

Yeah, that's better, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe if you LOOKED Muslim but without them knowing was actually a Jew, then they'd tell you they realły feel about Jews and Christians.

Also, you claim to have lived in five Muslim countries in in four years?

That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

I lived in Istanbul, but my wife had Kurdish relatives in eastern Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. The are Alevis and Shiite. She also has Sunni relatives in Damascus.

I've no need for your regurgitated 3rd hand special interest propaganda.

 

[toxicmedia]

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...

As you so clearly demonstrate?

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?

Anger? Hardly. But have you read some of Billy the bully's posts? There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts.

Riiiight....because you're so tolerant and friendly.

 

[toxicmedia]

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

.

Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however. The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.

How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths, the Muslim world seems to be all about hatred and violence, especially towards non Muslims. Does that cover each and every Muslim individual? No, but Muslims generally are born and raised in traditional religious families, and therefore are generally taught to hold certain beliefs towards others. This is an inescapable fact.

I've seen intolerance on both sides, usually with about the same frequency.

I just seen more lawlessness in general in rural middle eastern towns because those rural people tend to be more conservative, religious, and less exposed to the outside world.

The facts you offer are contradicted by my experiences, thus, easily escapable

I don't think your experience compares to mine. So I wouldn't go around bragging about experience. You lived in secular dictatorship countries in a shielded manner. Since you're a foreigner you obviously didn't speak their language, probably just enough to get around. So, in other words your "experience" is of no real value, the equivalent of a tourist. If you want to know how life was really like for minorities in Muslim countries, I suggest you get in touch with some Christians or Jews who were born and raised there, and had to leave. Which is what I am.

I speak Turkish, ad enough Arabic to get by. Many of my wife's relatives speak English too. They teach it in elementary school, plus they travel quite a bit.

I don't believe you are a Christian or Jew who was asked to leave a Muslim country. You just heard about that and now you're getting desperate in this argument, and you made that up.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[toxicmedia]

...Having lived there between 2000-2004...

That's nice.

...It's understandable that you'd resist what I'm telling you, because you want to feel like you're right...

Spare me the patronizing cushion.

I have no doubt that you are faithfully relaying the conclusions that you drew from personal experience.

...I said nothing about the world at large, only what I know about the MANY Muslims in Turkey, and parts of Iran, Iraq, and Syria that I spoke with...

I was not dwelling upon the world at large, merely reflecting that the world is much smaller now, and that a microcosm of personal experience is easily offset with good attention to news and multiple assessments of current events and participants and motivations and such.

...The standing of my credibility with people who've never been to the middle east, regarding Muslims in the middle east, couldn't be less important to me. You can either believe me, or not...

Your credibility in such matters is substantively identical to those reasonably well-read on the subject.

...I think the misleading impression some get from my point comes from a ego driven fear of being mistaken...

Or, alternatively, in the suspicion that your conclusions are the result of myopic personal experience and not sufficient for dealing with topic on the macro level.

...It's quite simple...and it goes like this: For every 10 people, anywhere, there are 6 ordinary people trying to live their lives according to their own unique customs and traditions. There is also 1 Saint, 1 Criminal, 1 Leader, and 1 Loser. That's what I've found to hold true, of the people I've met, in Asia, the middle east, and America. It's that simple...

Oh, heck, I'll go you one better, and say that 90 out of 100 are ordinary people, trying to live their lives, with 1 saint, 1 criminal, 1 leader, 1 loser, and 6 radicals ripe for the picking.

Trouble is, within the domains of Islam, those 6 Radicals practice a belief-system whose Founder gave his followers permission to wage war and to commit violence and to lie under various circumstances, and these permissions are repeatedly reinforced and outlined in the holy writ of that belief system, which makes it more prone and susceptible to violence and which promises its warriors an automatic free elevator ride to Paradise and fleshy delights if they should die in the prosecution of such a war or struggle.

...The ideology people who patronize and/or fund anti Muslim interests in America promote, is not dissimilar to how Muslim extremists/criminals recruit the marginalized in that region...

The difference being that the American anti-Muslim folk aren't calling for the death of Muslims and the destruction of the Muslim component of human civilization.

...The scope of the success of that type of recruiting is enhanced when poverty, disenfranchisement, and religious extremism are present...

That's the formula, alrght, across teh board.

...The relative success street gangs have in areas in the US, come from the same recruiting tactics...

At least those gangs only want 42nd Street... they're not looking to slaughter Infidels and to wipe-out Infidel civilization.

...Protectionist and that other guy's position seems to demonize Islam, and Muslims, without much exception...

Understandable, when you're dealing with a belief-system that is so alien and hostile and incompatible with your own culture and society and beliefs, although it is, of course, possible to go to excess, even when prosecuting a point against a dangerous opponent.

...I can't get them to offer percentages of Muslims they think are too far gone, and deserve to be killed

They can speak for themselves... as much as I dislike and distrust the belief system, I can't go down that road myself, except in defense of our country, in an other-worldly case of extremis that is unlikely to materialize in the universe which we inhabit.

You've never lived in the middle east, and you've spent too much time surfing anti Muslim hate sites

 

[toxicmedia]

Jesus taught me tolerance.

It wasn't Jesus who taught you lying.

Now you're just desperate too, and angry