Promoting Islamophobia

[toxicmedia]

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

.

Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however. The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.

How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.

 

[toxicmedia]

Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.

So, when I speak of the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, I am lying?

Do you need 900,000 references, or will a few thousand do?

I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.

 

[toxicmedia]

]I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

If your conclude that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer, you quite obviously lack the brain power necessary to be worth any consideration at all.

You are correct, however, in my neither want nor need your grandstanding, phony offer of prayers. I am an agnostic since I have enough humility to realize I can only know what I actually know, but if I were a Christian, I would certainly reject your making this insincere offer into such a public spectacle as the stuff of Pharisees since Jesus most definitely tried to instruct his followers away from that sort of farce. If you are a Muslim, I imagine I would not expect any honesty to begin with due to all the instructions you receive in regards to the Kaffirs, not to mention support for lying, but you can spare the phony theatrics here as well, o.k.?

I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.

I've already prayed for you and Protectionist, but not for your benefit. I did it so your intellectually repulsive intolerance doesn't corrupt me and cause some of my own. I did it in private as well.

I'm not Muslim, I'm a Presbyterian.

 

[Kondor3]

Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.

So, when I speak of the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, I am lying?

Do you need 900,000 references, or will a few thousand do?

I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.

This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.

Personal experiences represent a very narrow microcosm as a sampling base.

What you - personally - saw or experienced in your travels - and most especially if that was some time ago - has very little bearing upon the nature of the world at large, as it is presently constituted, nor does it lend you any particular and overwhelming credibility in discussions of such matters, so save your Well-Traveled-Soul speech for the locker-room.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.

You try to claim some sort of authority based upon the fact you have met a few Muslims, yet are abjectly ignorant as to the various punishments for apostasy in Islam.

What is wrong with this picture, here, folks?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.

I've already prayed for you and Protectionist, but not for your benefit. I did it so your intellectually repulsive intolerance doesn't corrupt me and cause some of my own. I did it in private as well.

I'm not Muslim, I'm a Presbyterian.

Now, you are simply lying. You insinuated that I wanted to kill Muslims. Your exact words were "I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?".

You can claim all you want by way of your own religion, but you are certainly opposing Jesus' actual teachings on the subject. The term as usually transcribed to portray this sort of stunt you are trying to pull is "play actor".

It shouldn't be difficult to find since it is quite early on in the N.T, but I would be happy to point it out to you since it does not appear that you have ever read it.

 

[Roudy]

You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.

Islam doesn't kill people...people kill people.

You would need to prove that those people, would not have killed 270 million people, without Islam ever having existed. Which is not possible.

So many aspects of the trouble Muslim countries have pre-dated Islam.

Some times other cultures are just scary for Xenophobes.

Causality?

You are so naive and ignorant as to think ideology does not motivate action?

I suppose it is easier for you to remain completely ignorant of the dictates of the ideology involved so as to defend it like you do, and it must also help to reduce any reaction to it to your own degree of simple-mindedness by calling it "xenophobia", but this amounts to nothing more than putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah, nyah, nyah"

You don't want to know what Islam is all about, you are too afraid to know, you are too simple-minded to know and operate from the perspective that anybody who does know is a great big bad poopoohead.

To think that here we have an ideology where the majority supports KILLING those who leave the ideology, and complete numb nuts are defending it because they somehow feel safer living in complete denial than by learning anything.

I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

Depends where you lived in the Middle East, and under what regime. For example, if under a secular dictator, then there was very little tolerance for Islamists and Islamic intolerance. On the other hand if you happened to live in a country who's name was prefaced with "Islamic republic of............", right there you know you're around some pretty medieval shariah Neanderthals who need little or no brainwashing or "recruiting", as they're already off their rockers. So it seems you learned very little from your short time in the Middle East.

You've never been there, yet you try to tell me how I should feel about having been there.

Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

That's where I was.

I've had many lengthy conversations with people in parts of those countries about politics, because Turks, Kurds, and Arabs love to talk politics over some tea.

What percentage of the following demographics do you think practice your description of Islam in it's malignant form?

Kurds, all regions:

Sunni Muslims,

Alevi Muslims:

Shiite Muslims:

First of all those were all secular countries, with the exception of Iran, which was secular during the Shah's time. Although in secular countries most people don't subscribe to "radical islam", it is only because the leadership doesn't allow the Islamists to preach true Islam which in my opinion is what "radical Islam" is. And even in those secular countries, there is still a lot of religious based prejudice towards people of other faiths, especially Jews. They are considered dirty and not to be trusted. In fact, the intolerance is based on the teachings of the Koran where Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens with less rights. Hence Dhimmitude which was Islamic apartheid which many Muslim countries practice to this day.

You are not the only one who's lived there and is familiar with the culture. Just because you tied the knot with a Muslim it doesn't absolve Islam or the rampant hatred and intolerance in Muslim societies.

 

[Roudy]

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

.

Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however. The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.

How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths, the Muslim world seems to be all about hatred and violence, especially towards non Muslims. Does that cover each and every Muslim individual? No, but Muslims generally are born and raised in traditional religious families, and therefore are generally taught to hold certain beliefs towards others. This is an inescapable fact.

 

[Billo_Really]

You can claim all you want by way of your own religion, but you are certainly opposing Jesus' actual teachings on the subject.

I wouldn't go there; you don't have a clue as to what Christ was about.

 

[Billo_Really]

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...

As you so clearly demonstrate?

 

[Roudy]

Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...

As you so clearly demonstrate?

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

 

[irosie91]

You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.

Islam doesn't kill people...people kill people.

You would need to prove that those people, would not have killed 270 million people, without Islam ever having existed. Which is not possible.

So many aspects of the trouble Muslim countries have pre-dated Islam.

Some times other cultures are just scary for Xenophobes.

Causality?

You are so naive and ignorant as to think ideology does not motivate action?

I suppose it is easier for you to remain completely ignorant of the dictates of the ideology involved so as to defend it like you do, and it must also help to reduce any reaction to it to your own degree of simple-mindedness by calling it "xenophobia", but this amounts to nothing more than putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah, nyah, nyah"

You don't want to know what Islam is all about, you are too afraid to know, you are too simple-minded to know and operate from the perspective that anybody who does know is a great big bad poopoohead.

To think that here we have an ideology where the majority supports KILLING those who leave the ideology, and complete numb nuts are defending it because they somehow feel safer living in complete denial than by learning anything.

I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.

your rant is idiotic------where in the USA are muslims being killed------go right ahead and
tell me about that epidemic of-----PULLED HEAD RAGS-----watta joke

 

[Billo_Really]

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

And you're a fucking hypocrite; as well as one of the biggest hate-mongers at this website.

 

[Roudy]

Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions, without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it. Unlike Muslim countries.

And you're a fucking hypocrite; as well as one of the biggest hate-mongers at this website.

Actually hate mongerer would be you Billy the Bully. 99% of your posts of full of hate and lies. You are a joke. But hey, even hate mongerers like you get to have their say in the US and Israel, unlike any of the various Muslim shitholes where you are killed and tortured for your words, take your pick.

 

[Coyote]

A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels

How many of those "good and honorable" people overlooked a pair of murderous invasions/occupations that have maimed, murdered, incarcerated, and displaced millions of innocent Muslims across the Middle East and North Africa?...

I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.

...Islam has taken the place of Communism as the "Great Threat" to the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, and keyboard warriors everywhere rise to condemn it...

Islam has condemned itself in Western eyes.

It needs no help from keyboard warriors.

Merely counterpointing, when its converts and adherents attempt to belittle The West as part of their Islamic propagandizing.

...Clean your own Christian/Capitalist sty before worrying anymore about the savage Muslims.

Nope.

We will continue to stay in your face and phukk with you, instead - it's called crushing the head of The Beast before it can grow big enough to harm us.

I don't defend Islam "unconditionally". That is a lie.

I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad.

Feel free to continue your hate mongering.

 

[Kondor3]

...I don't defend Islam "unconditionally". That is a lie...

It is the truth insofar as I have observed to date.

It is entirely possible that I have missed instances of you not coming to the aid of Islam, but I speak of the impression that you give to your colleagues.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong... but if I am, I have yet to see it, therefore, it is an 'inaccuracy' rather than a 'lie'.

If I knew differently, but said so anyway, that would be a lie... but that is not what happened here.

If I have mispoken, you have my sincere and public apologies, but I am not yet convinced that such an apology is in order.

...I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad...

There is some immediately discernible truth in this statement.

And that is your weakness in this context... Islam is part religion, part cultural diktat, part legal system, part expansionist creed - far more prone to violence under its aegis in the modern age than any of its mainstream counterparts... differences that make it dangerous... differences that make it toxic to and incompatible with The West.

Your inability to see the truth of that, and your strident insistence that Islam is merely a religion on a par with and no more threatening than others, is a naive and dangerous view.

One that should be counterpointed vigorously, and often.

...Feel free to continue your hate mongering.

It is not hate-mongering to vigorously warn against a dangerous and hateful creed that is toxic to our own culture and values and mores and which connives at weakening us.

If that requires having to dodge a few brickbats from time to time, then, what the hell - it's worth it.

 

[Coyote]

...I don't defend Islam "unconditionally". That is a lie...

It is the truth insofar as I have observed to date.

As far as YOU have observed.

It is entirely possible that I have missed instances of you not coming to the aid of Islam, but I speak of the impression that you give to your colleagues.

I no longer give a flying F about what impression I give my "colleagues" because I've long realized they will see what they WANT to see and nothing I say will make any difference. Wiser people than I stay away from these discussions and I understand why.

Out of all the anti-Muslim threads here - how many do I actually participate in? A couple to a handful. So much for impressions - they don't count for much in terms of accuracy.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong... but if I am, I have yet to see it, therefore, it is an 'inaccuracy' rather than a 'lie'.

If I knew differently, but said so anyway, that would be a lie... but that is not what happened here.

If I have mispoken, you have my sincere and public apologies, but I am not yet convinced that such an apology is in order.

What ever.

...I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad...

There is some immediately discernible truth in this statement.

And that is your weakness in this context... Islam is part religion, part cultural diktat, part legal system, part expansionist creed - far more prone to violence under its aegis in the modern age than any of its mainstream counterparts... differences that make it dangerous... differences that make it toxic to and incompatible with The West.

Islam is a religion. It is no different than Judiasm in regards to cultural diktat or legal system. The main difference is - Judaism comprises a tiny tiny minority of adherents. Christianity lies between the two and most certainly has it's expansionist creed and share of violence. Yet they are all religions. Islam has shown itself to be compatible with the west - just look at Islam in our own country. In Canada. In many parts of the west despite the rabid rhetoric of people like Pamela Geller etc - there is little actual data to show that the majority of the Muslim population in those countries do not support western ideals. They may not be "liberal" - but they support laws and democratic underpinnings of those countries.

Your inability to see the truth of that, and your strident insistence that Islam is merely a religion on a par with and no more threatening than others, is a naive and dangerous view.

Your truth is not necessarily THE truth.

Islam is merely a religion.

Beyond that - are there problems? Yes, I agree. Too much of the Muslim world is set in a medievil mindset and culture that is incompatable with modern ideals. The rise of Islamic Extremism is a serious concern - and, I might add, a serious concern TO the Islamic world in general. But your "truth" would paint this complicated problem in black and white/good and evil - and it isn't. There is the religion as whole, which is no different than any of the other major religions and that varies considerably as to how it is practiced and viewed by it's adherents around the world (evidenced by PEW research) and there are the problems that exist among elements of that religion and the cultures behind them. Recognizing this is not "unconditionally" defending Islam - it's preventing an "unconditional" hatred of a religion that would see it's followers marginalized, penalized, deported, or stript of their legal rights for no other reason than that of faith.

One that should be counterpointed vigorously, and often.

...Feel free to continue your hate mongering.

It is not hate-mongering to vigorously warn against a dangerous and hateful creed that is toxic to our own culture and values and mores and which connives at weakening us.

If that requires having to dodge a few brickbats from time to time, then, what the hell - it's worth it.

Extremism is dangerous and fundamentalism, regardless of faith - is often at odds with modern ideals.

 

[toxicmedia]

Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.

So, when I speak of the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, I am lying?

Do you need 900,000 references, or will a few thousand do?

I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.

This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.

Personal experiences represent a very narrow microcosm as a sampling base.

What you - personally - saw or experienced in your travels - and most especially if that was some time ago - has very little bearing upon the nature of the world at large, as it is presently constituted, nor does it lend you any particular and overwhelming credibility in discussions of such matters, so save your Well-Traveled-Soul speech for the locker-room.

Having lived there between 2000-2004.

It's understandable that you'd resist what I'm telling you, because you want to feel like you're right.

I said nothing about the world at large, only what I know about the MANY Muslims in Turkey, and parts of Iran, Iraq, and Syria that I spoke with.

The standing of my credibility with people who've never been to the middle east, regarding Muslims in the middle east, couldn't be less important to me. You can either believe me, or not.

I think the misleading impression some get from my point comes from a ego driven fear of being mistaken.

It's quite simple...and it goes like this:

For every 10 people, anywhere, there are 6 ordinary people trying to live their lives according to their own unique customs and traditions. There is also 1 Saint, 1 Criminal, 1 Leader, and 1 Loser. That's what I've found to hold true, of the people I've met, in Asia, the middle east, and America. It's that simple

The ideology people who patronize and/or fund anti Muslim interests in America promote, is not dissimilar to how Muslim extremists/criminals recruit the marginalized in that region.

The scope of the success of that type of recruiting is enhanced when poverty, disenfranchisement, and religious extremism are present.

The relative success street gangs have in areas in the US, come from the same recruiting tactics.

Protectionist and that other guy's position seems to demonize Islam, and Muslims, without much exception. I can't get them to offer percentages of Muslims they think are too far gone, and deserve to be killed

 

[Coyote]

This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.

There is a lot to be said about this, most notably that having access to such instantaneious and broad communications does not imply accuracy by any stretch of the word.

Instantanious means - without pause for reflection, critique, research or a regard for truth. "Broad communications" means anyone can say anything with the same degree of "believability". It means accountability is non-existant. Rumors become "fact" in a the blink of an eye and a million circulated "hoaxes". Critical thinking is not imparted with each rendition. A press of the button circulates the word around the world.

It also means that each of us can choose our news sources and, if we want, create our own echo chambers of news and opinions that reflect our own views. We don't have to be challanged if we don't want to and we can easily have our own views affirmed without discomfort.

I think it's good to be challenged and I'll admit my views have been challanged, I've questioned some of my assumptions, and come through with a broader perspective in some areas of debate - most notably in IP. In that debate - I've also gained insight from people (on both sides of the issue) who have actually traveled or lived there. I don't always agree, because all of us have our bias' but their personal experiences add a depth that might otherwise be lacking.

 

[toxicmedia]

I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.

You try to claim some sort of authority based upon the fact you have met a few Muslims, yet are abjectly ignorant as to the various punishments for apostasy in Islam.

What is wrong with this picture, here, folks?

I don't claim to be an authority on Muslims. I've simply stated my experience, and how what some are saying is contradicted by my experience.

I have tried to delegitimize what you offer, because you've never been to the middle east. If you'd have been there, and everything you offer didn't come straight out of information supplied by anti Muslim interests in the US. I would give it more consideration.

I didn't pay much attention to the extremists I met in the middle east, and most middle easterners didn't either. They thought they were crazy criminals.

I'm not going to pay much attention to what you've been told by extremists here either, and thank God...most Americans don't either.