Punishment of sinners in Hell are forever because God is infinitely good.

[OZman]

God's is completely incompatible with sin.

What..? I think your warrior god YAHWEH does not practice what he preaches. THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

Your god is the murderer. Satan is described as the destroyer for a reason. He destroys. Wake up, OZman. Your eternal life is at stake. Watch the video, Max posted of the Preacher in church who preached on hell (stay away from Jentezen Franklin) and listen to his sermon on hell and listen to what he has to say. If you have nothing to fear then why not watch it and at least realize the seriousness of what you are doing.

Jeremiah, I do not believe there is a hell, nor do I believe in the Israelite El pantheon. This link reflects more closely my own belief.

 

[turzovka]

but why would anyone still not be fascinated, if not obsessed, with what life and death is all about and what may lie ahead?

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who set aside the commands of God as a matter of religious devotion and died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering the torment, confusion , and condemnation of hell, you would not be in the dark worshiping a matzoh made by human hands that you eat for spiritual life, even though it has no life, and you would not be baffled by what life and death is all about and what lies ahead.

Unless you have the will to deliberately rise from the grave, you will never know what life and death is all about in this world, and you will never find a place the next world, the promised reward of the righteous who taste of what lies ahead even before the body dies, in the same way your confusion is a taste. No one knows what hell is like any better than you.

If you do not repent and come out of your tomb, at least you will have a life overflowing with rich fantasies, an edible trinity to pray to, bread and wine to eat and drink, bleeding statues, rosary beads, and fantastical stories of the sun dancing in the sky and Jesus and Mary appearing all over the place on edible and inedible things with nothing to say and for no apparent reason at all to confound you even more along the way to destruction.

Are you trying to make a point or wax poetically? (speaking of confusion)

I really cannot remember where you and I left off but I will take a guess. You do not impress me because you demand a miracle, then a miracle is revealed and documented and multiple eye witnesses report on it, and you proceed to dismiss it as baloney. Then fine… live with your brilliant deductions.

But do not when you die tell God that no sign of His reality was ever given because he will quickly show you how your pride and your desire for disobedience propelled you and tricked you into coming to such faulty conclusions.

Yes, I do know what hell is like. Because God revealed it to three little children at Fatima and they have shown they do not lie (how could they?) and they have shown to 70,000 witnesses and to the whole world (except for your ilk) that God is real. I feel real sorry for those who are trapped in a game of trying to defend their disbelief and their wanton ways.

 

[turzovka]

God is perfectly good meaning God is also perfectly just. The perfect justice of God leads Him perfectly judging all sinners for their sins. Sins are crimes done against God, an infinitely good and holy being. Crimes against an infinite God are infinite in nature and the punishments for infinite sins are necessarily infinite. Therefore, sinners are punished by God in Hell, which is forever.



God is infinite in status as Sovereign. All crimes committed against an infinite Sovereign are by definition crimes of infinite magnitude. The sentences for crimes of infinite magnitude, as judged by a perfectly just God, necessarily have to be punishments that are infinite in their nature. Therefore, sinners are justly punished by infinite sufferings that last forever in Hell.

If God is so unfair then maybe you can answer the following question for me, both, what you would choose and if that would be unfair to you?

==========================================

Perhaps no one can say why there has to be an eternal hell for some souls, but I do have a question for those who may reject God for that reason. I am wondering now. But I believe God loves you enough where perhaps if you are not happy with the idea of being given the gift of eternal life because the possibility of hell also exists, then maybe you can appeal in a prayer? Ask God if at the moment you pass from this world, might he just turn you into a rock instead? Pure oblivion, no pain, no consciousness, no nothing. In that way you will not risk any suffering in hell -- which you never asked for, by the way, when He created you. Ok, that’s true. However, in so doing, neither will you ever be given the opportunity to know heaven or see your loved ones again or have any consciousness. That would have to be the bargain.

I am curious to know if this disturbance to the idea of hell is a primary reason many choose to not to think about God very much or do much about it? Perhaps understandable to a degree, but why would anyone still not be fascinated, if not obsessed, with what life and death is all about and what may lie ahead? The evidence can be found in so many places, in so many ways about this God which so many want to believe in yet keep at a safe distance just the same. The evidence for Jesus, Mary, the saints, the miracles, heaven, hell, purgatory, and redemption all can be known. I submit Christianity has given far more to this world than all of its failures combined. God can only work with sinners so is it fair to point only to the failures of this faith and ignore its virtues when judging the message and works?

God’s promise to the world is that heaven awaits those who seek Him, yet if you choose to be filled with pride and live this life only for yourself, its pleasures and its comforts --- and in so doing ignore His calling, even His existence, then perhaps an awful fate is possible? It is a risk, granted, but is it unfair? Would one prefer to be turned into a rock instead? Maybe God will honor your free will and grant such a way out? But who would choose anything so dour and final as that when there is so much to hope for and be grateful for? Nothing unfair or unloving about it in the least.

“God reveals His covenant to those who fear Him.”

You seem to assume that to reject the belief in eternal punishment is to reject the belief in God. I reject the belief my truck can fly, but that does not mean I reject the belief my truck exists.

Eternal punishment is pointless. It has no purpose at all, other than to act as a boogeyman for priests.

You can believe in any god you so desire. But if you think you can parse out what the God of the Bible teaches and what He does not (because you do not want to believe in that part) then good luck. But I see very little hope for those like you who can so boldly tell us there is no teaching of hell and no revelation of hell via other channels God has chosen.

So many flavors of fools in this world. Sure, no hell, thanks for reassuring us. I guess that means no devil either? I guess those awful voices and manifestations during Catholic exorcisms were God having a little fun with us to think that it was the devil?

 

[the_human_being]

Can you produce a single scripture that says Cain is suffering in hell? Can you provide a single scripture that names anyone that is?

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

 

[the_human_being]

The following scriptures address the false apostate doctrine that says upon a sinner’s death he/she goes immediately to a place of fiery punishing called Hell and remains until called forth in the resurrection to judgment. It also addresses the false doctrine that upon the death of someone who is saved, that person goes immediately to Heaven. Understand that these scriptures do not address the future fate of those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life following the Great White Throne judgment, the Lake of Fire, and the second death. Those are topics to which I have other scriptures.



EZEKIEL 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; the soul [nephesh] who sins shall die. (NKJV)


All have sinned and come short. All die, the good and the bad.


EZEKIEL 18:20 "The soul [nephesh] who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the

guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the

righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon

himself. (NKJ)


Same idea as the 18:4


JOB 3:11 "Why did I not die at birth? Why did I not perish when I came from the

womb? 12 Why did the knees receive me? Or why the breasts, that I should nurse?

13 For now I would have lain still and been quiet, I would have been asleep; then I would have been at rest 14 with kings and counselors of the earth, who built ruins for themselves, 15 or with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver; 16 Or why was I not hidden like a stillborn child, like infants who never saw light? 17 There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. 18 There the prisoners rest together; they do not hear the voice of the oppressor. 19 The small and great are there, and the servant is free from his master. (NKJV)


Here Job says he would have been asleep, dead. He goes on to say the small as well as the great are all asleep or dead and rest together. None are in Heaven and none are being punished.


JOB 7:21 And why dost Thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? For now shall I sleep in the dust; and Thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be. (RWB)


Again, Job says he will sleep in the dust, in the grave, for he will be dead. He will not be in Heaaven.


JOB 14:10 But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? 11 As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, 12 so man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. 13 Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, that You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, that You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, till my change comes. (NKJV)


Again Job says a man lies down and dies. He also says he will be laid down and dead until the resurrection of the saints when he will be changed.


JOB 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth; 26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh I shall see God, 27 whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! (NKJV)



ECCLESIASTES 9:2 All share a common destiny — the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. As it is with the good man, so with the sinner; as it is with those who take oaths, so with those who are afraid to take them. 3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope — even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. (NIV)


Here Job declares again that the good and the bad both share the common destiny of death. He goes further to state that in death, the dead know nothing at all. What purpose would it be to eternally torture anyone who knows nothing at all, not the reason for their punishing nor even the fact that they are undergoing punishing?


ECCLESIASTES 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor

knowledge nor wisdom. (NIV)


There is no wisdom or knowledge in the grave. The dead are unaware of anything at all.


“The hour is coming, in the whichallthat arein the gravesshall hear his voice.” – John 5:28


The above tells us exactly where the dead are. They are all in their graves.,,


PSALM 6:5 No one remembers You when he is dead. Who praises You from the

grave? (NIV)


Here even David declares that the dead know nothing at all.


PSALM 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God; enlighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death; (NKJV)


David says he will sleep the sleep of death.


“Do not let me be ashamed, O LORD, for I have called upon You; Let the wicked be ashamed; Let them besilent in the grave.” – Psalm 31:17


Above, David says let the wicked be silent in their graves, not screaming in a fiery punishing.


PSALM 17:15 As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness. (NKJV)


Davis says he will awaken from his sleep of death.


PSALM 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried out to You, and You healed me. 3 O LORD, You brought my soul up from the grave; You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. 4 Sing praise to the LORD, You saints of His, and give thanks at the remembrance of His holy name. . . . 9 "What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth? 10 Hear, O LORD, and have mercy on me; LORD, be my helper!" (NKJV)


David declares that he will go down to the pit, the grave which is hell and will not be able to praise God while in his sleep of death. David knows he will not be with God in Heaven when he dies.


PSALM 88:1 O LORD, God of my salvation, I have cried out day and night before You. 2 Let my prayer come before You; incline Your ear to my cry. 3 For my soul is full of troubles, and my life draws near to the grave. 4 I am counted with those who go down to the pit; I am like a man who has no strength, 5 adrift among the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom You remember no more, and who are cut off from Your hand. 6 You have laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the depths. 7 Your wrath lies heavy upon me, and You have afflicted me with all Your waves. Selah 8 You have put away my acquaintances far from me; You have made me an abomination to them; I am shut up, and I cannot get out; 9 My eye wastes away because of affliction. LORD, I have called daily upon You; I have stretched out my hands to You. 10 Will You work wonders for the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise You? Selah 11 Shall Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or Your faithfulness in the place of destruction? 12 Shall Your wonders be known in the dark? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? (NKJV)


In the above, David calls death and the grave the land of forgetfulness because he knows his thoughts will perish within the grave.


PSALM 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into

silence; (NASU)


Again, even the righteous dead cannot praise the Lord while asleep in death.


PSALM 146:3 Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (NASU)


Even David declare that the thoughts of man perishes when the man dies. The dead are aware of absolutely nothing at all. There are not two separate thoughts of man, only one.


“What man can live and not seedeath? Can he deliverhis soulfrom the power ofthe grave? Selah” – Psalm 89:48


Only God, in the resurrection can deliver a man from death and the grave.


DEUTERONOMY 31:16 And the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to sleep with your fathers; then this people will rise and play the harlot after the strange gods of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake me and break my covenant which I have made with them. (RSV)


Moses is dead and in his grave. He is not in Heaven.


II SAMUEL 7:12 And when your [David's] days are over and you fall asleep with your ancestors, I shall appoint your heir, your own son to succeed you (and I shall make his sovereignty secure). (NJB)


Here God informs David that he will die and sleep with his fathers. David is not in Heaven, he is in his grave even today.


“Many of them thatsleep in the dustof the earth shall awake…” – Daniel 12:2


They are in their graves when the resurrection occurs. They are neither in Hell nor in Heaven.


I KINGS 2:10 Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the City of

David. (NASU)


David is dead and buried and sleeps with his fathers. He is not in Heaven.


ACTS 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens" . . . (NKJV)


This is after the false doctrine that preaches that Christ freed all the captives and took them all off to Heaven. That is yet another lie.


ACTS 13:36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption;" (NKJV)


David died and is in his grave. His body has returned to dust. He is not in Heaven.


JOHN 11:11 These things he said, and after that he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up." 12 Then his disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well." 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." (NKJV)


Yes, Lazarus was dead and the Lord resurrected him to life.


ACTS 7:59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (NKJV)


Asleep means dead. Stephen is dead and buried.



I CORINTHIANS 15:6 After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. (NKJV)


They all died and are in their graves.



DANIEL 12:13 "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days." (NKJV)


Daniel, another great saint, is dead and in his grave. Daniel is not in Heaven.


DANIEL 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (NKJV)


They are all dead and in their graves when the resurrections occur. They are neither in Heaven or in Hell awaiting the resurrection from there.


ISAIAH 26:19 Your dead shall live; together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; for your dew is like the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (NKJV)


Isaiah even declares that the dead are in the earth, not in Heaven or in Hell but are in their graves awaiting the resurrections.


JOHN 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (RSV)


John plainly declares that all the dead are in their tombs, neither in Hell or in Heaven, and are awaiting the resurrections.


Joh_3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,eventhe Son of man which is in heaven.

Now the above is straight from Christ’s own mouth. Don’t you think he should know if anyone has ascended unto Heaven other than himself? Why should He lie about it? This includes all those in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, all those “souls under the alter” in Revelation, the Thief on the Cross, Moses and Abraham, Elijah and anyone else.



EPHESIANS 5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for

whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep,

arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." (NKJV)


Christ awakens those who sleep, who are dead.



I CORINTHIANS 15:20 But now Christ is risen [egegertai] from the dead, and has

become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came

death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign till He has put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. (NKJV)


Plainly says the dead are asleep and that Christ will bring them forth from their graves in the resurrections.


I CORINTHIANS 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a

mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (NKJV)


I THESSALONIANS 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about

those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. (NASU)


I THESSALONIANS 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. (NIV)


Paul is very clear here. Those who have fallen asleep and are in their graves will come forth in the resurrection at Christ’s coming. They will rise. From where will they rise? From their graves. Not from Heaven or from Hell.



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


In the above scripture, Paul tells us when the saved will gather together with the Christ. It is at His return and not at anytime before.


Mar_13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


The above is plainly referring to the end times and to the return of Christ.




EZEKIEL 37:1 The hand of the LORD came upon me, and He led me out in the spirit of the LORD and set me in the center of the plain, which was now filled with bones. 2 He made me walk among them in every direction so that I saw how many they were on the surface of the plain. How dry they were! 3 He asked me: Son of man, can these bones come to life? "Lord GOD," I answered, "you alone know that." 4 Then He said o me: Prophesy over these bones, and say to them: Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: See! I will bring spirit into you, that you may come to life. 6 I will put sinews upon you, make flesh grow over you, cover you with skin, and put spirit in you so that you may come to life and know that I am the LORD. 7 I prophesied as I had been told, and even as I was prophesying I heard a noise; it was a rattling as the bones came together, bone joining bone. 8 I saw the sinews and the flesh come upon them, and the skin cover them, but there was no spirit in them. 9 Then He said to me: Prophesy to the spirit, prophesy, son of man, and say to the spirit: Thus says the Lord GOD: From the four winds come, O spirit, and breathe into these slain that they may come to life. 10 I prophesied as He told me, and the spirit came into them; they came alive and stood upright, a vast army. 11 Then He said to me: Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They have been saying, "Our bones are dried up, our hope is lost, and we are cut off." 12 Therefore, prophesy and say to them: Thus says the Lord GOD: O my people, I will open your graves and have you rise from them, and bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and have you rise from them, O my people! 14 I will put my Spirit in you that you may live, and I will settle you upon your land; thus you shall know that I am the LORD. I have promised, and I will do it, says the LORD. (NAB)


Above is speaking of the resurrection of Israel.


Following is the scripture that causes the most misunderstanding and is probably the most misquoted scripture in our Bibles:


II CORINTHIANS 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be

unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the

Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at

home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by

sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body

and to be present with the Lord. 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. (NKJV)


If we simply go back to Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, we find that "our earthly house" (v. 1), our physical body, will be "swallowed up by life" (v. 4) at the resurrection (I Cor. 15:50-54). This is the context in which Paul writes here. When Paul says that "while we are at home in the (physical) body we are absent from the Lord," he is simply saying that we can't be with the Lord until we receive our immortal bodies at the resurrection (I Cor. 15:50).


When understood correctly, Paul here confirms that it's only at the resurrection that the saints will be alive with Yeshua. When Paul speaks of being "absent from the body to be present with the Lord," he is speaking of the resurrection of the dead, when his mortal body will be replaced by the "building from God" (v. 1).


I have posted more than enough simple scripture here that any reasonable and honest person should be able to reasonably determine that the dead are indeed dead and in their graves and that there is absolutely no one presently being tortured in a fiery place called Hell nor has anyone ascended unto Heaven other than the Christ. This will I pray, stave off those who preach an apostate doctrine to the contrary and make an open assault upon the name and character of our God and Christ. Please refrain from posting any other scriptures whereby you request I explain them to you since I submit if you are unwilling to accept all these scriptures I have posted, then there is simply nothing that you will accept and anything further would be in vain just as all these will have been in vain.

 

[Steven_R]

Can you produce a single scripture that says Cain is suffering in hell? Can you provide a single scripture that names anyone that is?

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

Who gets to decide what is the literal truth and what is a mere parable? What's the criteria for that determination?

 

[the_human_being]

Can you produce a single scripture that says Cain is suffering in hell? Can you provide a single scripture that names anyone that is?

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

Who gets to decide what is the literal truth and what is a mere parable? What's the criteria for that determination?

Well, judge for yourself. It is but one in a line of parables that Christ was teaching at that time. Go back in your Bible a few pages and you can see where the parables He was teaching started. If you have one of the big family Bibles, most of them contain a list of the Parables of Christ. I have four of them covering the span of over 100 years all published by different publishers. All of them have such a listing and Lazarus and the Rich Man are listed as one of Christ's parables. You can also do a search on the internet. Simply plug into your search field "The Parables of Christ". You will retrieve a listing of a number of web sites that will provide you with a list of Christ's parables and Lazarus and the Rich Man will be one of them. I do hope I have answered your question.

 

[PratchettFan]

God is perfectly good meaning God is also perfectly just. The perfect justice of God leads Him perfectly judging all sinners for their sins. Sins are crimes done against God, an infinitely good and holy being. Crimes against an infinite God are infinite in nature and the punishments for infinite sins are necessarily infinite. Therefore, sinners are punished by God in Hell, which is forever.



God is infinite in status as Sovereign. All crimes committed against an infinite Sovereign are by definition crimes of infinite magnitude. The sentences for crimes of infinite magnitude, as judged by a perfectly just God, necessarily have to be punishments that are infinite in their nature. Therefore, sinners are justly punished by infinite sufferings that last forever in Hell.

If God is so unfair then maybe you can answer the following question for me, both, what you would choose and if that would be unfair to you?

==========================================

Perhaps no one can say why there has to be an eternal hell for some souls, but I do have a question for those who may reject God for that reason. I am wondering now. But I believe God loves you enough where perhaps if you are not happy with the idea of being given the gift of eternal life because the possibility of hell also exists, then maybe you can appeal in a prayer? Ask God if at the moment you pass from this world, might he just turn you into a rock instead? Pure oblivion, no pain, no consciousness, no nothing. In that way you will not risk any suffering in hell -- which you never asked for, by the way, when He created you. Ok, that’s true. However, in so doing, neither will you ever be given the opportunity to know heaven or see your loved ones again or have any consciousness. That would have to be the bargain.

I am curious to know if this disturbance to the idea of hell is a primary reason many choose to not to think about God very much or do much about it? Perhaps understandable to a degree, but why would anyone still not be fascinated, if not obsessed, with what life and death is all about and what may lie ahead? The evidence can be found in so many places, in so many ways about this God which so many want to believe in yet keep at a safe distance just the same. The evidence for Jesus, Mary, the saints, the miracles, heaven, hell, purgatory, and redemption all can be known. I submit Christianity has given far more to this world than all of its failures combined. God can only work with sinners so is it fair to point only to the failures of this faith and ignore its virtues when judging the message and works?

God’s promise to the world is that heaven awaits those who seek Him, yet if you choose to be filled with pride and live this life only for yourself, its pleasures and its comforts --- and in so doing ignore His calling, even His existence, then perhaps an awful fate is possible? It is a risk, granted, but is it unfair? Would one prefer to be turned into a rock instead? Maybe God will honor your free will and grant such a way out? But who would choose anything so dour and final as that when there is so much to hope for and be grateful for? Nothing unfair or unloving about it in the least.

“God reveals His covenant to those who fear Him.”

You seem to assume that to reject the belief in eternal punishment is to reject the belief in God. I reject the belief my truck can fly, but that does not mean I reject the belief my truck exists.

Eternal punishment is pointless. It has no purpose at all, other than to act as a boogeyman for priests.

You can believe in any god you so desire. But if you think you can parse out what the God of the Bible teaches and what He does not (because you do not want to believe in that part) then good luck. But I see very little hope for those like you who can so boldly tell us there is no teaching of hell and no revelation of hell via other channels God has chosen.

So many flavors of fools in this world. Sure, no hell, thanks for reassuring us. I guess that means no devil either? I guess those awful voices and manifestations during Catholic exorcisms were God having a little fun with us to think that it was the devil?

You are correct. I can believe as I desire, as can you. You should not assume I believe in any part of the Bible. I do not "parse out" at all. The Bible is an interesting historical text, but it has nothing at all to do with God.

You are welcome, though. It was not my intent to reassure you, but I am glad you were.

 

[Avatar4321]

Can you produce a single scripture that says Cain is suffering in hell? Can you provide a single scripture that names anyone that is?

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

then why does the scriptures discuss the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ?

 

[the_human_being]

Can you produce a single scripture that says Cain is suffering in hell? Can you provide a single scripture that names anyone that is?

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

then why does the scriptures discuss the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ?

Because the resurrection of the saints occurs at Christ's coming and at no time before. That is a future event. As of this date, according to Christ Himself, only He alone has ascended unto heaven as those scriptures I posted plainly show.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Max, this is another sermon from Charles Lawson. I found it today.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

then why does the scriptures discuss the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ?

Because the resurrection of the saints occurs at Christ's coming and at no time before. That is a future event. As of this date, according to Christ Himself, only He alone has ascended unto heaven as those scriptures I posted plainly show.

Wrong. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD.
It is written:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5: 8

 

[Uncensored2008]

For GOD so HATED the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whosover should NOT believe shall be tortured and tormented forever.


That is no god, that is a devil most foul - a creation of the depravity of man, of the cruelty and hatred that festers in the soul of humans.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You cannot create God in your own image, Dajjal.

Ah, but that is exactly what you have done, or rather the sadistic bastards of the Catholic church in the dark ages have done. They have created, and you promote a god who is more like Hannibal Lecter, than any vision of "love."

It is Satan that is bringing destruction upon mankind and man agreeing to go along with it rather than to repent and receive Christ as Savior. God has given us a free will.

This god of yours, who says that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will be brutalized for all eternity - THIS is free will? Bullshit, this is blackmail, the most vile coercion possible.

Where is Satan giving a free will to anyone? John Todd told of stories when he was in the occult - that the Satanists put a 10K bounty on the heads of anyone who tried to leave their coven. They wanted them murdered. Does that sound like free will to you? The good news is that many have left the occult - chose to follow Jesus Christ and are still alive today and protected by the power of God. How is that possible? They dared to believe God's Truth instead of Satan's lies and became born again Christians. That's how.

The god you present is a creature of pure evil, driven by spite and an insatiable lust to inflict misery. Why would anyone worship such evil?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It is your choice to reject Jesus Christ, Uncensored, but realize that it was your choice. Not His. He gave you a way of escape and you are rejecting it. Your spirit must live on eternally somewhere. It's either heaven or hell. Heaven belongs to God and He has given you the way in. You have only yourself to blame if you continue to reject Christ. No man comes to the Father except through the Son. His Son. No one else died on a cross for your sins. Not Mohammad, not Allah, not Buddah, not Joseph Smith, not Brigham Young, not Lord Matreya or Benjamin Creme, not Mary Baker Edy, not Jim Jones the Jesuit, not the anti Christ Pope and certainly not anyone else. Jesus died on the cross for your sins and paid the full price for your sins so that you wouldn't have to.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You cannot create God in your own image, Dajjal.

Ah, but that is exactly what you have done, or rather the sadistic bastards of the Catholic church in the dark ages have done. They have created, and you promote a god who is more like Hannibal Lecter, than any vision of "love."

It is Satan that is bringing destruction upon mankind and man agreeing to go along with it rather than to repent and receive Christ as Savior. God has given us a free will.

This god of yours, who says that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will be brutalized for all eternity - THIS is free will? Bullshit, this is blackmail, the most vile coercion possible.

Where is Satan giving a free will to anyone? John Todd told of stories when he was in the occult - that the Satanists put a 10K bounty on the heads of anyone who tried to leave their coven. They wanted them murdered. Does that sound like free will to you? The good news is that many have left the occult - chose to follow Jesus Christ and are still alive today and protected by the power of God. How is that possible? They dared to believe God's Truth instead of Satan's lies and became born again Christians. That's how.

The god you present is a creature of pure evil, driven by spite and an insatiable lust to inflict misery. Why would anyone worship such evil?

The god of Catholicism is Satan, Uncensored! Not Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ loves you and never desired for you to be trapped in rituals, traditions of man or someone else's yoke of iron. Jesus came to set you free. He didn't come to condemn you! He came to save you!!!

 

[the_human_being]

That is a parable my Friend. You should know that.

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

then why does the scriptures discuss the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ?

Because the resurrection of the saints occurs at Christ's coming and at no time before. That is a future event. As of this date, according to Christ Himself, only He alone has ascended unto heaven as those scriptures I posted plainly show.

Wrong. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD.
It is written:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5: 8

Having trouble reading what that scripture actually says, aren't you? One should not change what a scripture says to make it read what one wants it to say. That scripture does NOT state "to be absent from the body IS to be with the Lord.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It is your choice to reject Jesus Christ, Uncensored, but realize that it was your choice. Not His. He gave you a way of escape and you are rejecting it. Your spirit must live on eternally somewhere. It's either heaven or hell. Heaven belongs to God and He has given you the way in. You have only yourself to blame if you continue to reject Christ. No man comes to the Father except through the Son. His Son. No one else died on a cross for your sins. Not Mohammad, not Allah, not Buddah, not Joseph Smith, not Brigham Young, not Lord Matreya or Benjamin Creme, not Mary Baker Edy, not Jim Jones the Jesuit, not the anti Christ Pope and certainly not anyone else. Jesus died on the cross for your sins and paid the full price for your sins so that you wouldn't have to.

But your god will have his sadistic way and torture me for all eternity according to you. Just as the Pope tortured people in the past, but the Pope wanted the pain and suffering to continue, so the Church created god to follow the sadism of these evil bastards.

The god you propose, is the embodiment of evil.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I do know that. You asked for a scripture that names a person suffering in hell. There it is.

.In the parable, a great chasm has been set in place that separates the living from the dead.

If you were not once a finely adorned rich man who died, descended into the netherworld, and is already suffering in hell my friend, explain the parable...

Why? Because you cannot grasp what the parable was about? To cut to the chase, the parable was Christ delivering his final warning to the Jews that if they continued to deny Him that He would turn to the gentiles. He did so right after that when Stephen was murdered.

If you had any understanding of the Bible, you would know that there is no one either suffering in hell or basking away in heaven. There has as of this date, been no resurrection to eternal life of anyone at all except for the Christ. Everyone who has ever died is simply dead and awaiting one or the other of the resurrections. The dead have no thoughts about anything.

then why does the scriptures discuss the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ?

Because the resurrection of the saints occurs at Christ's coming and at no time before. That is a future event. As of this date, according to Christ Himself, only He alone has ascended unto heaven as those scriptures I posted plainly show.

Wrong. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD.
It is written:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5: 8

Having trouble reading what that scripture actually says, aren't you? One should not change what a scripture says to make it read what one wants it to say. That scripture does NOT state "to be absent from the body IS to be with the Lord.

I'm quoting the King James Bible as it is written in 2 Corinthians 5:8. Read it again. It's the Word of God! And you? Who are you quoting besides yourself?!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It is your choice to reject Jesus Christ, Uncensored, but realize that it was your choice. Not His. He gave you a way of escape and you are rejecting it. Your spirit must live on eternally somewhere. It's either heaven or hell. Heaven belongs to God and He has given you the way in. You have only yourself to blame if you continue to reject Christ. No man comes to the Father except through the Son. His Son. No one else died on a cross for your sins. Not Mohammad, not Allah, not Buddah, not Joseph Smith, not Brigham Young, not Lord Matreya or Benjamin Creme, not Mary Baker Edy, not Jim Jones the Jesuit, not the anti Christ Pope and certainly not anyone else. Jesus died on the cross for your sins and paid the full price for your sins so that you wouldn't have to.

But your god will have his sadistic way and torture me for all eternity according to you. Just as the Pope tortured people in the past, but the Pope wanted the pain and suffering to continue, so the Church created god to follow the sadism of these evil bastards.

The god you propose, is the embodiment of evil.

God does not want to torture you, Uncensored. God loves you and wants to save you from going to hell. God is longsuffering and patient because He does not wish for any to perish! Think of how many times God has saved your life and kept you from dying! Can you think of at least one time? I believe you can! THINK.

Were you raised Catholic? Me too. It's a bad start but the good news is Jesus Christ desires to give you eternal life. Even tonight.