Question for Lefties

[alang1216]

So the Left is perfectly OK with corporations censoring conservatives based on their political views on social media. If so, then what is to stop them from hiring and firing employees only based on their political views?

Could a conservative boss, for example, fire all his liberal employees?

Would there be any violation of their "rights"?

Strawman Alert!! I'm a Leftist who is NOT alright with corporations censoring conservatives based on their political views on social media. I would bet most of us on the Left feel the same way.

What I'm not OK with is anyone using social media to spread lies, rumors, and innuendos meant to damage our democracy. If you can't back it up, don't post it as fact. Prominent figures in our country have a greater obligation to the truth than the rest of us.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

 

[pknopp]

To you the fact that someone understands that something is legal means a person supports that. There is no discussing things factually, just emotionally.

What does that even mean?

A site can censor whatever it wants. That does mean I support them censoring but I understand they can.

No they can not legally censor.

And yet they can, just like this site and nearly every single site does. Your opinion means very little here.

Nothing to do with opinion, I am merely stating the law. Arbitrary censorship is totally illegal on the internet.

It's not arbitrary. You may disagree with the reasons but it is not arbitrary.

 

[DBA]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

When you sign up on Facebook, you are contractually bound to their terms of service. Don't agree to that contract, you aren't allowed to sign up.

If they can censor, they should be held liable for the content on their site. It is that simple.

You want to quote the law that says that?

I am saying that Facebook is not the free press if they are going to censor. Just give every business Section 230 protection of some sort if we are going to give it to them. I have a feeling lawyers would be very unhappy.

 

[DBA]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

 

[Rigby5]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

When you sign up on Facebook, you are contractually bound to their terms of service. Don't agree to that contract, you aren't allowed to sign up.

If they can censor, they should be held liable for the content on their site. It is that simple.

You want to quote the law that says that?

FCC regulations are volumes.
I used to have copies, but I don't anymore.
You will just have to take my word for it, that the internet is not exempt from the same protection of rights that all public media have to follow.
Facebook owns no part of the internet, at all, in any way.
They are users just like you and me.

 

[Rigby5]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

Could be. That is open to interpretation.

 

[Moonglow]

So the Left is perfectly OK with corporations censoring conservatives based on their political views on social media. If so, then what is to stop them from hiring and firing employees only based on their political views?

Could a conservative boss, for example, fire all his liberal employees?

Would there be any violation of their "rights"?

They already hire and fire people on their political views.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

Could be. That is open to interpretation.

Yeah, easy to prove.

 

[Rigby5]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

That is the point, it is not Facebook's call.
It really should be settled in court.
And since some of Trump's posts are clearly not harmful, then blocking him entirely seems totally illegal to me.

 

[Rigby5]

So the Left is perfectly OK with corporations censoring conservatives based on their political views on social media. If so, then what is to stop them from hiring and firing employees only based on their political views?

Could a conservative boss, for example, fire all his liberal employees?

Would there be any violation of their "rights"?

They already hire and fire people on their political views.

But its not legal.

 

[Rigby5]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

Could be. That is open to interpretation.

Yeah, easy to prove.

I doubt it since they totally blocked Trump, and not everything he posts could be a lie, slander, incite violence, or be harmful?

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

That is the point, it is not Facebook's call.
It really should be settled in court.
And since some of Trump's posts are clearly not harmful, then blocking him entirely seems totally illegal to me.

You are free to feel that way.

 

[Moonglow]

So the Left is perfectly OK with corporations censoring conservatives based on their political views on social media. If so, then what is to stop them from hiring and firing employees only based on their political views?

Could a conservative boss, for example, fire all his liberal employees?

Would there be any violation of their "rights"?

They already hire and fire people on their political views.

But its not legal.

Sure it's not does that mean they won't or don't? No.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

Could be. That is open to interpretation.

Yeah, easy to prove.

I doubt it since they totally blocked Trump, and not everything he posts could be a lie, slander, incite violence, or be harmful?

Everything doesn't have to be a lie. Others are blocked from Facebook also without every single thing being counter to their rules.

But it's nice of you to note that "not everything" is a lie.

 

[DBA]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

Not if they are afforded Section 230 protection.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

Not if they are afforded Section 230 protection.

File a lawsuit.

Courts have held that Section 230 prevents you from being held liable even if you exercise the usual prerogative of publishers to edit the material you publish.

Section 230 Protections

 

[DBA]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

Not if they are afforded Section 230 protection.

File a lawsuit.

At the very least, 230 will be modified to provide more clear language against political censorship. The current Supreme Court would not rule in Facebook or Twitters favor with regards to their lack of “good faith” when applying their rules and restrictions. If the Democrats pack the court, then yes, true free speech will be gone. Any true opposition to these platforms will be quickly shot down by the feds immediately using the same biased and false premise Facebook and Twitter use to censor their users.

 

[pknopp]

Conservatives should censor themselves. Normal people don't have a problem stating their views without running afoul of the rules. If you can't be a conservative without violent or racist rhetoric or dangerous lies then that's a problem with your ideology.

Any speech that is not in line with the left if considered racist and dangerous. I don’t agree with affirmative action policies. I think they are the epitome of reverse racism. Facebook could sensor me if they wanted for that.

Facebook can sensor who they like, but if so, they cannot be afforded section 230 protection. They want their cake and be able to eat it too.

It is not legal for Facebook to censor who they like.
They can only legally censor based on what could be harmful to the rights of others.
Just because no one is prosecuting Facebook, does not mean its legal.

You have no "rights" on Facebook outside of those they grant.

Nonsense.
Facebook owns nothing and maintains nothing.
Facebook is using the internet, so then is required to follow the fair use regulations established for the internet.
You have the same rights of fair use of Facebook as Blacks do at a lunch counter in Alabama.
No one open to the public can legally discriminate.
You have rights everywhere that everyone has to abide by.

If a customer at a counter starts cussing out other customers they can be booted.

That may be true, but it would not then be arbitrary, but in defense of their business to not be harmed by one customer chasing away others.

Facebook will argue that deleting lies is not arbitrary either.

And that would be extremely easy to counter as lies from both sides are not deleted. How many lies were posted about Trump on Facebook? My God, where to start.

It's their call, not yours.

Not if they are afforded Section 230 protection.

File a lawsuit.

At the very least, 230 will be modified to provide more clear language against political censorship. The current Supreme Court would not rule in Facebook or Twitters favor with regards to their lack of “good faith” when applying their rules and restrictions. If the Democrats pack the court, then yes, true free speech will be gone. Any true opposition to these platforms will be quickly shot down by the feds immediately using the same biased and false premise Facebook and Twitter use to censor their users.

"Free speech" protections have always been limits to the government, not the people.