Question for republicans, libertarians, and independents.

[Dr.Drock]

We have all seen many, many threads where some democrat says something critical followed by the wild claim that democrats are abandoning him in droves, what are you talking about? I certainly criticize him but it's for not matching Conservative hostility in kind or letting them control the conversation by negotiating with them when they have no intention of holding up their end. Quit attacking him with birther fabrications and overblown bull shit charges of communism and maybe you may find a different tone from democrats.

I hear the claim independents are leaving him in droves with polls to back them, I've never heard anyone claim democrats are leaving him in droves.

I hear democrats talk about thow they criticize Obama all the time, I just never actually see anything to back it.

No exaggeration, I bet 1 out of 1,000 Obama related posts on this board by democrats have any questioning or criticism of him.

Maybe I was not clear enough, no democrat is going to pile on a birther thread or F+F thread or any of the bulk of conspiracy threads that clog this place so disregard those. No Democrat is going to agree that various broad phenomena such as unemployment or outsourcing is all Obama's fault so disregard those also. What is left? In the rare instance that the initial OP is a valid criticism rather than the usual irrational smear I am sure you can find agreement. The problem here is that democrats will always defend him from bald faced lies and smear jobs which happen to be most of what conservative seem to focus on. Put the conversation back into the realms of reason and you will hear a different tune.

Yep, reps say dumb shit about him all the time. Attacking him for what he was fed as a child for example, about as stupid of a criticism as the human mind can drum up.


But it shouldn't have to be conservatives starting threads, it'd be nice to every now and then see a thread started by a democrat criticizing Obama. I don't think that's asking too much.

 

[occupied]

I hear the claim independents are leaving him in droves with polls to back them, I've never heard anyone claim democrats are leaving him in droves.

I hear democrats talk about thow they criticize Obama all the time, I just never actually see anything to back it.

No exaggeration, I bet 1 out of 1,000 Obama related posts on this board by democrats have any questioning or criticism of him.

Maybe I was not clear enough, no democrat is going to pile on a birther thread or F+F thread or any of the bulk of conspiracy threads that clog this place so disregard those. No Democrat is going to agree that various broad phenomena such as unemployment or outsourcing is all Obama's fault so disregard those also. What is left? In the rare instance that the initial OP is a valid criticism rather than the usual irrational smear I am sure you can find agreement. The problem here is that democrats will always defend him from bald faced lies and smear jobs which happen to be most of what conservative seem to focus on. Put the conversation back into the realms of reason and you will hear a different tune.

Yep, reps say dumb shit about him all the time. Attacking him for what he was fed as a child for example, about as stupid of a criticism as the human mind can drum up.


But it shouldn't have to be conservatives starting threads, it'd be nice to every now and then see a thread started by a democrat criticizing Obama. I don't think that's asking too much.

I've already said that most of my criticism is when he acts too much like a republican, allows them to control his agenda or gets overly cozy with the billionaire class, what would the conservative reaction be if I made a thread on the subject? Agreement? Not on your life. We have little or no common ground when it comes to criticism of the president so why bother?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Maybe I was not clear enough, no democrat is going to pile on a birther thread or F+F thread or any of the bulk of conspiracy threads that clog this place so disregard those. No Democrat is going to agree that various broad phenomena such as unemployment or outsourcing is all Obama's fault so disregard those also. What is left? In the rare instance that the initial OP is a valid criticism rather than the usual irrational smear I am sure you can find agreement. The problem here is that democrats will always defend him from bald faced lies and smear jobs which happen to be most of what conservative seem to focus on. Put the conversation back into the realms of reason and you will hear a different tune.

Yep, reps say dumb shit about him all the time. Attacking him for what he was fed as a child for example, about as stupid of a criticism as the human mind can drum up.


But it shouldn't have to be conservatives starting threads, it'd be nice to every now and then see a thread started by a democrat criticizing Obama. I don't think that's asking too much.

I've already said that most of my criticism is when he acts too much like a republican, allows them to control his agenda or gets overly cozy with the billionaire class, what would the conservative reaction be if I made a thread on the subject? Agreement? Not on your life. We have little or no common ground when it comes to criticism of the president so why bother?

Would not having agreement from conservatives keep you from starting a thread to criticize Romney?

 

[nodoginnafight]

The original post is based on a faulty premise. We see plenty of scrutiny and harsh comments about Obama from Democrats.

I think OP is dabbling in projection here. Democrats are a diverse group. They don't sign onto "pledges" and "contracts" in order to advance in the party hierarchy the way the GOP does. Projection is almost as old as the politics of fear that the GOP also embrace. You take your own biggest weakness and then project it onto your opponent in an attempt to at least get a draw in public perception.

Democrats in general have many flaws in my humble opinion, but toeing the party line in conflict of personal convictions just ain't one of them.

How come you don't hear any republicans clamoring for Mitt's tax records like they clamor for Obama's birth certificate?

Hmmmmm ?????

I think the republican party sucks. I hated Bush. I hate Romney. I don't support him and certainly won't be voting for him.

Take another swing.

Nah, I'll just trot leisurely around the bases.
Nailed.

 

[Full-Auto]

Why do you think democrats never question Obama?

I won't even go as far to say criticize Obama, I'm just asking why they never even question him.

I don't think it's just because he's a democrat, I think Clinton got a lot criticism from within for his screw ups.

Is it because he's black and questioning him would be "racist?" Is it because he sounds cool, almost like MLK Jr when giving speeches? Just great Hope and Change propaganda? Is it because they hated Bush so much they're happy to have anyone with in a D in office regardless of the outcome?

To be honest though, I didn't see a lot of criticism or questioning from republicans at Bush in his 1st term. But to his supporters credit he was either abandoned, heavily criticized or at bare minimum questioned a lot. Do you think if Obama's next 4 years are the same or worse level of disaster his first 4 were do you think they'll begin to question him? Or will it remain unwavering, undaunted love and support?

Obviously there's going to be some angry Obama supporters on this thread if it gets any legs, but let's try to keep the discussion on topic.

very astute observation.

Money for nothing and the checks for free?

 

[Avorysuds]

I think what we see happening is the apathetic mood returning to the Democratic party. The Obama-bots are becoming incredibly vicious as their party shrinks and looses steam.

The Dem’s voter base is a bit dangerous in that they usually aren’t very intelligent when it comes to politics. Liberals usually get inspired by a “great speech” but the policy is boring. Under Obama it’s speech after speech, and the speeches are starting to wear thin. Dems see the bad policy and it just bores the crap out of them, they wanted to see speeches about how great the policies healed the planet, that the rest of the world wants to blow us, that the economy is surging under a liberal utopia, instead it’s divisive speeches blaming anyone and everyone as to why all Obama’s policies are failing.


So to answer the question as to “why don’t dems questions Obama?” It’s because they shut down rather than push for accountability. The danger is they won’t show up and vote.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

To be fair I remember hearing several prominent democrats jump on him for his Bain tactics. But I get your point with reference to the posters here.

 

[Dr.Drock]

The original post is based on a faulty premise. We see plenty of scrutiny and harsh comments about Obama from Democrats.

I think OP is dabbling in projection here. Democrats are a diverse group. They don't sign onto "pledges" and "contracts" in order to advance in the party hierarchy the way the GOP does. Projection is almost as old as the politics of fear that the GOP also embrace. You take your own biggest weakness and then project it onto your opponent in an attempt to at least get a draw in public perception.

Democrats in general have many flaws in my humble opinion, but toeing the party line in conflict of personal convictions just ain't one of them.

How come you don't hear any republicans clamoring for Mitt's tax records like they clamor for Obama's birth certificate?

Hmmmmm ?????

I think the republican party sucks. I hated Bush. I hate Romney. I don't support him and certainly won't be voting for him.

Take another swing.

Nah, I'll just trot leisurely around the bases.
Nailed.

I see, so i'm projecting. In other words I never criticize a man I just said I hated, don't support and won't be voting for?

You're sticking with that? That's your view of a home run?

 

[DontBeStupid]

It's already been touched on, but I think the premise of this thread is not true. Liberals and Democrats do criticize and question Obama. We just don't do it about topics that the "conservatives" and the GOP want us to. I've criticized Obama for dropping the Single Payer Plan, not having a bigger Stimulus or a second one, for attempting to work with the GOP after they proclaimed they wouldn't, things like this. But that doesn't count to "conservatives", because they want me to complain about his birth certificate, his grade in English 101 and that he's half white.

 

[occupied]

Yep, reps say dumb shit about him all the time. Attacking him for what he was fed as a child for example, about as stupid of a criticism as the human mind can drum up.


But it shouldn't have to be conservatives starting threads, it'd be nice to every now and then see a thread started by a democrat criticizing Obama. I don't think that's asking too much.

I've already said that most of my criticism is when he acts too much like a republican, allows them to control his agenda or gets overly cozy with the billionaire class, what would the conservative reaction be if I made a thread on the subject? Agreement? Not on your life. We have little or no common ground when it comes to criticism of the president so why bother?

Would not having agreement from conservatives keep you from starting a thread to criticize Romney?

I do not seek or require even a tiny bit of agreement from conservatives or anyone on any subject, I say what I think and am not the least bit offended if no one agrees with me.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I've already said that most of my criticism is when he acts too much like a republican, allows them to control his agenda or gets overly cozy with the billionaire class, what would the conservative reaction be if I made a thread on the subject? Agreement? Not on your life. We have little or no common ground when it comes to criticism of the president so why bother?

Would not having agreement from conservatives keep you from starting a thread to criticize Romney?

I do not seek or require even a tiny bit of agreement from conservatives or anyone on any subject, I say what I think and am not the least bit offended if no one agrees with me.

Well you just implied that you wouldn't start a thread to criticize Obama for the reasons you gave because conservatives wouldn't agree with you. Then you say agreement from conservatives doesn't impact what you say.

I'm confused.

 

[emptystep]

There are basically three types of attacks:

1) Both Bain and cronyism are bullshit attacks which will be leveled at one party while the exact equivalent happens 'at home'. They show weakness and lack of a real plan by either side.

2) There are issues like the Patriot Act which are wrong but neither side will address the issue so for one side to attack itself on the issue makes little sense. Which also makes it extremely hard to deal with in the first place. The point is if you are not going to deal with it once in office don't attack it on the other side while on the campaign trail. That would be hypocritical.

3) There are there are points with are truly blamable upon one's own party. Lying to start a war for example.

If this thread is here for (1), happy flaming, for (2), let's talk, for (3), again, let's talk.

 

[occupied]

Would not having agreement from conservatives keep you from starting a thread to criticize Romney?

I do not seek or require even a tiny bit of agreement from conservatives or anyone on any subject, I say what I think and am not the least bit offended if no one agrees with me.

Well you just implied that you wouldn't start a thread to criticize Obama for the reasons you gave because conservatives wouldn't agree with you. Then you say agreement from conservatives doesn't impact what you say.

I'm confused.

It's not that complicated, perhaps I should have said also that I rarely start threads in the first place, especially not on the latest tempest in a teacup that will be old news next week.

 

[Avorysuds]

It's already been touched on, but I think the premise of this thread is not true. Liberals and Democrats do criticize and question Obama. We just don't do it about topics that the "conservatives" and the GOP want us to. I've criticized Obama for dropping the Single Payer Plan, not having a bigger Stimulus or a second one, for attempting to work with the GOP after they proclaimed they wouldn't, things like this. But that doesn't count to "conservatives", because they want me to complain about his birth certificate, his grade in English 101 and that he's half white.

And here we have your typical progression Obama-bot idiot. On full display he shows that his “questions and criticisms” of Obama’s polices are weak and play out more like a complement. You’re upset because Obama tried to work with republicans? Firstly it’s Obama’s fucking job to work with congress, secondly you prove my point that you complement Obama by claiming he worked with “the enemy” even when the “enemy” made it clear they didn’t want to work with Obama.

You miss a few key things. One, the Reps only obtained power because Obama was not willing to work with anyone when he had the supermajority and rammed through legislation the country didn’t like, leading to massive losses in the house and Senate to the Republicans. Two, the Republicans were voted in to stop Obama, not to give him everything he wanted as the Dem congress did under Bush.


Then you go and prove how out of touch you are with basic levels of honesty and make the concerns of people that don’t like Obama to be about his birth certificate, Obama being part white and his grades…. Ohhh no, you couldn’t pick things like Obama’s wars, massive spending habits, the fact that Obama went to a racist church, historic welfare spending, historic food stamps, failed stimulus, divisive speeches, TARP, UE, the economy being absolute shit for 3 and a half years or any of that…. No no, instead you choose “Obama being half white” or “Obama’s grades.” You know Obama’s grades get brought up because you want 2667387 years of Mitt Romney’s taxes returns and the only people I ever hear bring up Obama being part white are people like, welp, people like you…. Hell you guys say “birth certificate” at lest 47x more than any Republicans on these boards.

Thanks for showing once again why you earned the nick name “ReallyFuckingStupid” on these boards.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think the republican party sucks. I hated Bush. I hate Romney. I don't support him and certainly won't be voting for him.

Take another swing.

Nah, I'll just trot leisurely around the bases.
Nailed.

I see, so i'm projecting. In other words I never criticize a man I just said I hated, don't support and won't be voting for?

You're sticking with that? That's your view of a home run?

Oh because you deny that I nailed it on the head, means I didn't nail it on the head?
So you're one of those who thinks their word is the last word on every topic?
yaaaawn

Yeah, I stand by my observation. Your OP was absurdly off the mark. You decide WHY you made up that crap. I'll stick to my opinion of why.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Nah, I'll just trot leisurely around the bases.
Nailed.

I see, so i'm projecting. In other words I never criticize a man I just said I hated, don't support and won't be voting for?

You're sticking with that? That's your view of a home run?

Oh because you deny that I nailed it on the head, means I didn't nail it on the head?
So you're one of those who thinks their word is the last word on every topic?
yaaaawn

Yeah, I stand by my observation. Your OP was absurdly off the mark. You decide WHY you made up that crap. I'll stick to my opinion of why.

I didn't deny it, I just laid out what was said. I'll try again it again.

I see, so i'm projecting. In other words I never criticize a man I just said I hated, don't support and won't be voting for?

You're sticking with that? That's your view of a home run?

My word doesn't need to be last, I'm just politely asking that when you quote me please actually respond to what I say.

 

[emptystep]

And here we have your typical progression Obama-bot idiot. On full display he shows that his “questions and criticisms” of Obama’s polices are weak and play out more like a complement. You’re upset because Obama tried to work with republicans? Firstly it’s Obama’s fucking job to work with congress, secondly you prove my point that you complement Obama by claiming he worked with “the enemy” even when the “enemy” made it clear they didn’t want to work with Obama.

I feel I should give a little background to that 'working with the enemy' comment. Back near the end of Bush's last term the republicans went lock step and pulled anything and everything they could to damage democratic party, with apparently no regard for country. For example, at one point the Senate democrats wanted to meet but the republicans could control who got meeting rooms so the Senators basically met in a broom closet. It was the shit like this and the '51% rule' mentality of the republicans that democrat supporters wanted treatment in kind when Obama took office.

That is why some of those people working Obama phone banks have a lot more fire in their gut then the poll numbers show. Romney starts pulling from Bush's playbook and a tech savy left is going to overwhelm anything Romney can mount as an offense.

 

[Oddball]

Why do you think democrats never question Obama?

I won't even go as far to say criticize Obama, I'm just asking why they never even question him.

I don't think it's just because he's a democrat, I think Clinton got a lot criticism from within for his screw ups.

Is it because he's black and questioning him would be "racist?" Is it because he sounds cool, almost like MLK Jr when giving speeches? Just great Hope and Change propaganda? Is it because they hated Bush so much they're happy to have anyone with in a D in office regardless of the outcome?

To be honest though, I didn't see a lot of criticism or questioning from republicans at Bush in his 1st term. But to his supporters credit he was either abandoned, heavily criticized or at bare minimum questioned a lot. Do you think if Obama's next 4 years are the same or worse level of disaster his first 4 were do you think they'll begin to question him? Or will it remain unwavering, undaunted love and support?

Obviously there's going to be some angry Obama supporters on this thread if it gets any legs, but let's try to keep the discussion on topic.

First of all, there are a lot of people out there, for whom anyone with a (D) by their name could get caught in bed with the proverbial dead woman or live boy and get a pass...Though we have an inordinate number of them who post here, they aren't really the norm.

For the rest, it boils down to, IM not-at-all HO, one thing: Race.

There are millions of people in America who got caught up in the whole hopey-changy thing and the novelty of electing the first non-white President...They have so much emotional capital tied up in the guy, that it's not enough that he not only not suck on toast, that he not even just be middle-of-the road, but that he attains the greatness that is completely beyond his grasp...They want someone worthy of having monuments and shrines erected to venerate him...So much so that they'll turn a blind eye to chronically high unemployment, economic growth that oh-but-just-barely charts into positive territory, cratering home values, fiscal policy dealt with on a crisis-by-crisis basis, scandalous crony capitalist debacles with taxpayer money, ruling by decree, snobbish and mean-spirited speaking gaffes that would kill the career of just about anyone else, alliances with unrepentant murderers and unabashed race bigots, the list goes on and on.

As it was with the Donovan McNabb kerfuffle, so it is with Obama...We have a bunch of feel-good social concern, driven by attendant media hype, that the black guy do well, for no better reason than because he's black

 

[Dr.Drock]

Why do you think democrats never question Obama?

I won't even go as far to say criticize Obama, I'm just asking why they never even question him.

I don't think it's just because he's a democrat, I think Clinton got a lot criticism from within for his screw ups.

Is it because he's black and questioning him would be "racist?" Is it because he sounds cool, almost like MLK Jr when giving speeches? Just great Hope and Change propaganda? Is it because they hated Bush so much they're happy to have anyone with in a D in office regardless of the outcome?

To be honest though, I didn't see a lot of criticism or questioning from republicans at Bush in his 1st term. But to his supporters credit he was either abandoned, heavily criticized or at bare minimum questioned a lot. Do you think if Obama's next 4 years are the same or worse level of disaster his first 4 were do you think they'll begin to question him? Or will it remain unwavering, undaunted love and support?

Obviously there's going to be some angry Obama supporters on this thread if it gets any legs, but let's try to keep the discussion on topic.

First of all, there are a lot of people out there, for whom anyone with a (D) by their name could get caught in bed with the proverbial dead woman or live boy and get a pass...Though we have an inordinate number of them who post here, they aren't really the norm.

For the rest, it boils down to, IM not-at-all HO, one thing: Race.

There are millions of people in America who got caught up in the whole hopey-changy thing and the novelty of electing the first non-white President...They have so much emotional capital tied up in the guy, that it's not enough that he not only not suck on toast, that he not even just be middle-of-the road, but that he attains the greatness that is completely beyond his grasp...They want someone worthy of having monuments and shrines erected to venerate him...So much so that they'll turn a blind eye to chronically high unemployment, economic growth that oh-but-just-barely charts into positive territory, cratering home values, fiscal policy dealt with on a crisis-by-crisis basis, scandalous crony capitalist debacles with taxpayer money, ruling by decree, snobbish and mean-spirited speaking gaffes that would kill the career of just about anyone else, alliances with unrepentant murderers and unabashed race bigots, the list goes on and on.

As it was with the Donovan McNabb kerfuffle, so it is with Obama...We have a bunch of feel-good social concern, driven by attendant media hype, that the black guy do well, for no better reason than because he's black

My thoughts exactly

As a white kid growing up in the inner city, my parents taught me not to pity, have sympathy for or have lower standards for blacks solely because of their skin color. They taught me that was racism, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of our natural white guilt Obama supporters are guilty of that.

 

[Soulless65]

Why do you think democrats never question Obama?

I won't even go as far to say criticize Obama, I'm just asking why they never even question him.

I don't think it's just because he's a democrat, I think Clinton got a lot criticism from within for his screw ups.

Is it because he's black and questioning him would be "racist?" Is it because he sounds cool, almost like MLK Jr when giving speeches? Just great Hope and Change propaganda? Is it because they hated Bush so much they're happy to have anyone with in a D in office regardless of the outcome?

To be honest though, I didn't see a lot of criticism or questioning from republicans at Bush in his 1st term. But to his supporters credit he was either abandoned, heavily criticized or at bare minimum questioned a lot. Do you think if Obama's next 4 years are the same or worse level of disaster his first 4 were do you think they'll begin to question him? Or will it remain unwavering, undaunted love and support?

Obviously there's going to be some angry Obama supporters on this thread if it gets any legs, but let's try to keep the discussion on topic.

First of all, there are a lot of people out there, for whom anyone with a (D) by their name could get caught in bed with the proverbial dead woman or live boy and get a pass...Though we have an inordinate number of them who post here, they aren't really the norm.

For the rest, it boils down to, IM not-at-all HO, one thing: Race.

There are millions of people in America who got caught up in the whole hopey-changy thing and the novelty of electing the first non-white President...They have so much emotional capital tied up in the guy, that it's not enough that he not only not suck on toast, that he not even just be middle-of-the road, but that he attains the greatness that is completely beyond his grasp...They want someone worthy of having monuments and shrines erected to venerate him...So much so that they'll turn a blind eye to chronically high unemployment, economic growth that oh-but-just-barely charts into positive territory, cratering home values, fiscal policy dealt with on a crisis-by-crisis basis, scandalous crony capitalist debacles with taxpayer money, ruling by decree, snobbish and mean-spirited speaking gaffes that would kill the career of just about anyone else, alliances with unrepentant murderers and unabashed race bigots, the list goes on and on.

As it was with the Donovan McNabb kerfuffle, so it is with Obama...We have a bunch of feel-good social concern, driven by attendant media hype, that the black guy do well, for no better reason than because he's black

My thoughts exactly

As a white kid growing up in the inner city, my parents taught me not to pity, have sympathy for or have lower standards for blacks solely because of their skin color. They taught me that was racism, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of our natural white guilt Obama supporters are guilty of that.

Not to derail the thread but one of the main reasons why Black people have trouble with this country right now in fact for over 30-40 years has been the drug war. That both party's seem to support no matter how much the Dems try to be the cool party by playing lip service to legalizing weed and they never do.

But, yeah I voted for Pres. Obama back in 08 and I feel totally let down by him but that doesn't mean I'm going to the republican party there're just the same side different coin so I'm going to vote third party this year and I hope that the majority of this country would do the same but I doubt it.