Questions.....RE: The Greenhouse Effect

[Toddsterpatriot]

I agree with everything you say.

However, SSDD's problem is that he disagrees with the most basic elementary aspect of radiation. He thinks that two objects at the same temperature (in equilibrium) do not radiate anything toward each other. Zero.

Sorry guy, but I can read the equations and accept them at face value..it is you model guys who attempt to make them say things that they don't...and are constantly interpreting them for fun and profit...

So you still think that four highly respected Nobel Prize winners and all scientists since then can't read the equations? And you think the founders of that science are interpreting the equations for fun and profit 100 years ago? Only a die-hard Troll clinging to a fantasy would ever post that here. You think those scientist of 100 years ago developed the quantum understanding of radiation physics just so they could claim AGW 100 years later? Wow!

Epicycles.
Everyone, including Einstein and Bohr, got it wrong.
SSDD is the only one who gets it.
That's why he can't provide anyone who agrees.

 

[IanC]

SSDD invokes some mystical new physical law that prohibits radiation from being produced in specific directions, even though it just doesn't make sense and is fantastically complicated, needing to know the speed, direction and internal conditions of every particle of matter in the universe to work. It also defies the principle of entropy.

The rest of us just think every object radiates fully in all directions. And that the net exchange of energy is simply adding up the energy and finding the net result for any specific location.

Occam's Razor suggests that we dispense with SSDD's bizarre epicycles, at least until some reason is presented to explain them.

 

[IanC]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

 

[Wuwei]

SSDD invokes some mystical new physical law that prohibits radiation from being produced in specific directions, even though it just doesn't make sense and is fantastically complicated, needing to know the speed, direction and internal conditions of every particle of matter in the universe to work. It also defies the principle of entropy.

The rest of us just think every object radiates fully in all directions. And that the net exchange of energy is simply adding up the energy and finding the net result for any specific location.

Occam's Razor suggests that we dispense with SSDD's bizarre epicycles, at least until some reason is presented to explain them.

He is looking at the whole thing backwards. The SLoT does not constrain radiation physics. The fact is that radiation physics follows the requirements of quantum mechanics. It is an important side issue that it does not violate the SLoT.

However, he is smart enough to follow the plethora of arguments that all objects must radiate independently of its surroundings. He is playing a "flat-earth" type of game. He thinks he is winning the game (but knows he is not winning the science). He changes the rules of science in order to pretend to win. But he simply doesn't care he is lying about the science he pretends because the idea of a flat-earth game is to win at all costs while sacrificing ones own dignity and self respect.

 

[jc456]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

Just to show off more of my ignorance.
so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?
Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?
once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

conclusion the cold piece of steel accelerates cooling of the two hot pieces until they all three equal out when the rate of of cooling slows back down to the rate before the cold piece arrived.

 

[jc456]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

Just to show off more of my ignorance.
so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?
Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?
once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

conclusion the cold piece of steel accelerates cooling of the two hot pieces until they all three equal out when the rate of of cooling slows back down to the rate before the cold piece arrived.

so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?

Yes. The two hot pieces lose more energy to the cool piece than they receive back from the cool piece.
Until they reach the same temperature.

Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?

They will cool faster than they did when they radiated at each other.

once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

Well, they'll be cooler than when they started, so they'll radiate less.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

It's a mystery. Not as big a mystery as why SSDD thinks matter has a dimmer switch.

 

[jc456]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

Just to show off more of my ignorance.
so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?
Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?
once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

conclusion the cold piece of steel accelerates cooling of the two hot pieces until they all three equal out when the rate of of cooling slows back down to the rate before the cold piece arrived.

so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?

Yes. The two hot pieces lose more energy to the cool piece than they receive back from the cool piece.
Until they reach the same temperature.

Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?

They will cool faster than they did when they radiated at each other.

once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

Well, they'll be cooler than when they started, so they'll radiate less.

will the three eventually cool down to the surrounding temperature?

 

[jc456]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

It's a mystery. Not as big a mystery as why SSDD thinks matter has a dimmer switch.

why would it be a mystery?

 

[jc456]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

if there is work, isn't there heat?

Why then doesn't the atmosphere get hot rather than cool?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

Just to show off more of my ignorance.
so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?
Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?
once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

conclusion the cold piece of steel accelerates cooling of the two hot pieces until they all three equal out when the rate of of cooling slows back down to the rate before the cold piece arrived.

so when you place that cooler piece of steel between the two hot pieces the surrounding temperature cools correct?

Yes. The two hot pieces lose more energy to the cool piece than they receive back from the cool piece.
Until they reach the same temperature.

Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?

They will cool faster than they did when they radiated at each other.

once the three pieces equal out will the two hot pieces continue to lose heat at the same rate as when the cold piece was first placed there?

Well, they'll be cooler than when they started, so they'll radiate less.

will the three eventually cool down to the surrounding temperature?

As long as there is no outside source of energy.......yes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

why is the surface cooler than the corona?

It's a mystery. Not as big a mystery as why SSDD thinks matter has a dimmer switch.

why would it be a mystery?

What?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Two white hot lengths of steel are taken out of the blast furnace and are left to cool. The sides that face each other cool less quickly.

SSDD says it is because they are not allowed to radiate towards each other. Everyone else says it is because they ARE radiating at each other.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

If you put a third piece of cool steel between them, then apparently the hot steel is now allowed to radiate. Bizarre, the third piece controls the radiation from the hot ones.

Even stranger is that the hot steel throttles the amount of radiation it emits, based on the temperature of the cooler steel, without ever knowing the temperature of the cooler steel, because the cooler steel is not allowed to radiate. If it can't radiate, how does the information about its temperature get transmitted?

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

if there is work, isn't there heat?

Why then doesn't the atmosphere get hot rather than cool?

if there is work, isn't there heat?

Where is work?

Why then doesn't the atmosphere get hot rather than cool?

What atmosphere? Where? When?

You really need to be specific with your questions when we're discussing multiple objects/topics.

 

[SSDD]

I agree with everything you say.

However, SSDD's problem is that he disagrees with the most basic elementary aspect of radiation. He thinks that two objects at the same temperature (in equilibrium) do not radiate anything toward each other. Zero.

Sorry guy, but I can read the equations and accept them at face value..it is you model guys who attempt to make them say things that they don't...and are constantly interpreting them for fun and profit...

So you still think that four highly respected Nobel Prize winners and all scientists since then can't read the equations? And you think the founders of that science are interpreting the equations for fun and profit 100 years ago? Only a die-hard Troll clinging to a fantasy would ever post that here. You think those scientist of 100 years ago developed the quantum understanding of radiation physics just so they could claim AGW 100 years later? Wow!

Still waiting for that observed measured evidence of spontaneous two way energy flow? Got any? Of course you don't...so you are left with appeals to authority that can't provide any actual evidence either...you hold a position of faith...you believe....that isn't science, that is religion.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD invokes some mystical new physical law that prohibits radiation from being produced in specific directions, even though it just doesn't make sense and is fantastically complicated, needing to know the speed, direction and internal conditions of every particle of matter in the universe to work. It also defies the principle of entropy.

The rest of us just think every object radiates fully in all directions. And that the net exchange of energy is simply adding up the energy and finding the net result for any specific location.

Occam's Razor suggests that we dispense with SSDD's bizarre epicycles, at least until some reason is presented to explain them.

Since there are no measurements of two way energy flow...since it can't be observed or measured, Occam suggests that we dispense with the models and go with observable reality. Not only can you not read a relatively simple equation....you don't get Occam either.

 

[SSDD]

He's previously said that absorption and emission isn't work, but still refuses to say what work takes
place on the Sun's surface which would allow "non-spontaneous" emission of radiation from the
cooler surface toward the hotter corona.

Weird.

Of course I have said what sort of work science thinks is happening....sorry you are to damned stupid to read my response.

 

[IanC]

Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?

The two hot pieces always radiate according to their temperatures. The rate of cooling is affected by how much radiation is coming back from their surroundings.

 

[jc456]

Will the two hot pieces lose heat faster with the cold piece there?

The two hot pieces always radiate according to their temperatures. The rate of cooling is affected by how much radiation is coming back from their surroundings.

yep the surrounding temperature. Agree. When the cold steel is placed in between the two hot pieces they will radiate at the same rate if they are equal.