Rational Funding Limits on Health Expenses

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Many years ago, while “Hillary-Care” was being debated in Congress, a Doctor acquaintance of mine told me that the AMA had a working group that was developing a plan for socialized medicine. Very briefly, it was as follows. A dedicated tax would be implemented. The country would be divided into 7 regions, and each region would be allocated a budget, based on the revenues coming out of the healthcare tax.


Within each region, there would be a committee of lawyers, doctors, ethicists (?), business owners, and regular citizens who would decide, basically, how that money would be spent.


Out of that process would come LIMITATIONS on spending. For example, they wouldn’t allow people over a certain age to get major, costly surgeries; that is to say, the Program would not fund those surgeries. A related question would be, what if the person had the resources to self-fund those things? That could still remove resources from “everyone else.” But whatever.


Clearly, a disproportionate amount of money is spent on Americans who are in the last 90 days of life, much of it merely to extend life by a few days, weeks or months.


Another touchy question arises at the other end of life. Kids are born all the time who are, to put it bluntly, fucked up. They have multiple physical defects (or a combination of mental and physical defects) that could theoretically be corrected by a series of very expensive surgeries over many years, but…is it sane to expend those resources on a person who probably will never be healthy or lead a productive life?


I saw a thing on (I think it was) Facebook yesterday. A mom was writing about her kid, who was like the theoretical one described in the previous paragraph. She attached a copy of an invoice for medical/surgical expenses of about a quarter million dollars, said that this was one of several such surgeries her son had had, and one of several more he would require in the future. And isn’t my kid cute? (Cute picture appended). Yes, the kid is cute.


“And if the Republic plan is adopted,” with its coverage caps, “will my kid be condemned to die???????”


One of many problems with the American conception of healthcare now – unlike the conception in countries that actually HAVE socialized medicine – is that Americans have been convinced that EVERYONE should be able to access – at a “reasonable cost” – the kind of care that the richest person in the country could access if he needed to.


This is INSANE, people! At some point, to quote the late Nancy Reagan, we, as a society have to be able to, “Just Say NO!”


I realize one can say, “What if it was your kid?” but Jesus, no society can afford to spend an INFINITE amount of money on some kid who will probably die before he’s 20 anyway.


We don’t seem to be able to confront the issue of limited resources.
 
Many years ago, while “Hillary-Care” was being debated in Congress, a Doctor acquaintance of mine told me that the AMA had a working group that was developing a plan for socialized medicine. Very briefly, it was as follows. A dedicated tax would be implemented. The country would be divided into 7 regions, and each region would be allocated a budget, based on the revenues coming out of the healthcare tax.


Within each region, there would be a committee of lawyers, doctors, ethicists (?), business owners, and regular citizens who would decide, basically, how that money would be spent.


Out of that process would come LIMITATIONS on spending. For example, they wouldn’t allow people over a certain age to get major, costly surgeries; that is to say, the Program would not fund those surgeries. A related question would be, what if the person had the resources to self-fund those things? That could still remove resources from “everyone else.” But whatever.


Clearly, a disproportionate amount of money is spent on Americans who are in the last 90 days of life, much of it merely to extend life by a few days, weeks or months.


Another touchy question arises at the other end of life. Kids are born all the time who are, to put it bluntly, fucked up. They have multiple physical defects (or a combination of mental and physical defects) that could theoretically be corrected by a series of very expensive surgeries over many years, but…is it sane to expend those resources on a person who probably will never be healthy or lead a productive life?


I saw a thing on (I think it was) Facebook yesterday. A mom was writing about her kid, who was like the theoretical one described in the previous paragraph. She attached a copy of an invoice for medical/surgical expenses of about a quarter million dollars, said that this was one of several such surgeries her son had had, and one of several more he would require in the future. And isn’t my kid cute? (Cute picture appended). Yes, the kid is cute.


“And if the Republic plan is adopted,” with its coverage caps, “will my kid be condemned to die???????”


One of many problems with the American conception of healthcare now – unlike the conception in countries that actually HAVE socialized medicine – is that Americans have been convinced that EVERYONE should be able to access – at a “reasonable cost” – the kind of care that the richest person in the country could access if he needed to.


This is INSANE, people! At some point, to quote the late Nancy Reagan, we, as a society have to be able to, “Just Say NO!”


I realize one can say, “What if it was your kid?” but Jesus, no society can afford to spend an INFINITE amount of money on some kid who will probably die before he’s 20 anyway.


We don’t seem to be able to confront the issue of limited resources.

I agree in "end of life" decisions where an expensive procedure only buys a small amount of time

But a child facing the rest of his life? I have no problem paying what it takes to not only save his life but expand the quality of life
 
Many years ago, while “Hillary-Care” was being debated in Congress, a Doctor acquaintance of mine told me that the AMA had a working group that was developing a plan for socialized medicine. Very briefly, it was as follows. A dedicated tax would be implemented. The country would be divided into 7 regions, and each region would be allocated a budget, based on the revenues coming out of the healthcare tax.


Within each region, there would be a committee of lawyers, doctors, ethicists (?), business owners, and regular citizens who would decide, basically, how that money would be spent.


Out of that process would come LIMITATIONS on spending. For example, they wouldn’t allow people over a certain age to get major, costly surgeries; that is to say, the Program would not fund those surgeries. A related question would be, what if the person had the resources to self-fund those things? That could still remove resources from “everyone else.” But whatever.


Clearly, a disproportionate amount of money is spent on Americans who are in the last 90 days of life, much of it merely to extend life by a few days, weeks or months.


Another touchy question arises at the other end of life. Kids are born all the time who are, to put it bluntly, fucked up. They have multiple physical defects (or a combination of mental and physical defects) that could theoretically be corrected by a series of very expensive surgeries over many years, but…is it sane to expend those resources on a person who probably will never be healthy or lead a productive life?


I saw a thing on (I think it was) Facebook yesterday. A mom was writing about her kid, who was like the theoretical one described in the previous paragraph. She attached a copy of an invoice for medical/surgical expenses of about a quarter million dollars, said that this was one of several such surgeries her son had had, and one of several more he would require in the future. And isn’t my kid cute? (Cute picture appended). Yes, the kid is cute.


“And if the Republic plan is adopted,” with its coverage caps, “will my kid be condemned to die???????”


One of many problems with the American conception of healthcare now – unlike the conception in countries that actually HAVE socialized medicine – is that Americans have been convinced that EVERYONE should be able to access – at a “reasonable cost” – the kind of care that the richest person in the country could access if he needed to.


This is INSANE, people! At some point, to quote the late Nancy Reagan, we, as a society have to be able to, “Just Say NO!”


I realize one can say, “What if it was your kid?” but Jesus, no society can afford to spend an INFINITE amount of money on some kid who will probably die before he’s 20 anyway.


We don’t seem to be able to confront the issue of limited resources.
One problem with this approach (basically a form of Eugenics a debunked so called science) is where do we draw the line and how do we keep the line from moving even further inward. Another problem is, like your disproportionate moneys distribution claim, is it's far too generalized. Are we to set up death houses and Soylent green factories?
 
A great OP start. Please compare other countries' national health care to the OP comment "One of many problems with the American conception of healthcare now – unlike the conception in countries that actually HAVE socialized medicine – is that Americans have been convinced that EVERYONE should be able to access – at a “reasonable cost” – the kind of care that the richest person in the country could access if he needed to."
 
How about this: Stop forcing people in the healthcare industry to labor without compensation to which they've agreed, for that is at least indentured servitude. Further, stop stealing from some people in order to pay for services provided to others, for that is theft. You want to labor for another on a voluntary basis or pay someone else's doctor bill, go right ahead.

I'm sure we already outlawed slavery and I know stealing is illegal. I suggest if anyone's plan for healthcare involves either, it's a bad plan.
 
SorenJ20170627_low.jpg
 
How about this: Stop forcing people in the healthcare industry to labor without compensation to which they've agreed, for that is at least indentured servitude. Further, stop stealing from some people in order to pay for services provided to others, for that is theft. You want to labor for another on a voluntary basis or pay someone else's doctor bill, go right ahead.

I'm sure we already outlawed slavery and I know stealing is illegal. I suggest if anyone's plan for healthcare involves either, it's a bad plan.
The health care industry personnel do very well for themselves, thank you.

Taxation by We the People is not stealing, period.
 

The problem is that the Senators are at opposite ends of the spectrum with some complaining Trumpcare does not repeal enough of Obamacare and others complaining it does not protect Medicaid and harms older Americans

I think McConnell wants his vote so he can declare the issue dead and move on to tax reform
 
As Doubts Grow, Murphy And Blumenthal Rally Opposition To Obamacare Overhaul
Source: Hartford Courant

By Russell BlairContact Reporter

With the future of Republican efforts to revise the Affordable Care Act uncertain, Connecticut's two senators worked with Democratic colleagues to build opposition to the historic legislation.

Hours after the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported the Senate Republican health care bill would lead to 22 million more uninsured Americans by 2026, Connecticut's two senators spoke on the Senate floor late Monday night, urging their GOP colleagues to postpone a vote on the legislation planned for this week.

"None of us can look our constituents in the eye, look at ourselves in the mirror, look inside our hearts and justify a vote for this bill," said Sen. Richard Blumenthal.


Blumenthal stood in front of a photograph of a young Connecticut girl whose family relied on Medicaid for the expensive medical treatments she required. The girl's mother had testified at what Blumenthal called an "emergency field hearing" he held on the Senate bill.


Read more: Murphy and Blumenthal Rally Opposition to Obamacare Overhaul as Republicans Count Votes
 
Lee is an opportunist, so let's see if McConnell can bribe him, make him king of Utah or something.

Heller won't budge. I don't think Paul will budge. Cruz I don't have the slightest idea.
 
Lee is an opportunist, so let's see if McConnell can bribe him, make him king of Utah or something.

Heller won't budge. I don't think Paul will budge. Cruz I don't have the slightest idea.

I think it is going to be all or none

If Senators like Cruz, Paul or Lee see the vote being close, they will jump in

If they see McConnell not having the votes regardless, they will stick to their conservative values
 
Lee is an opportunist, so let's see if McConnell can bribe him, make him king of Utah or something.

Heller won't budge. I don't think Paul will budge. Cruz I don't have the slightest idea.

I think it is going to be all or none

If Senators like Cruz, Paul or Lee see the vote being close, they will jump in

If they see McConnell not having the votes regardless, they will stick to their conservative values
GOP delays vote on health bill until after July 4 break - The Boston Globe
 
Lee is an opportunist, so let's see if McConnell can bribe him, make him king of Utah or something.

Heller won't budge. I don't think Paul will budge. Cruz I don't have the slightest idea.

I think it is going to be all or none

If Senators like Cruz, Paul or Lee see the vote being close, they will jump in

If they see McConnell not having the votes regardless, they will stick to their conservative values
GOP delays vote on health bill until after July 4 break - The Boston Globe

Gives the constituents an opportunity to flock to town halls and 4th of July appearances and demand they vote against it

Lot of angry voters out there
 
Another government program is needed to fix the government program that fixed the other government program that fixed another government program that failed!!! It's the only way!! We need the nanny state!!

:rofl:
 
GOP delays vote on health bill until after July 4 break - The Boston Globe

Gives the constituents an opportunity to flock to town halls and 4th of July appearances and demand they vote against it

Lot of angry voters out there

This should wait until after the 2018 election. Voters can head to the polls and decide: "Do you want a congress that will repeal ACA and throw 23 million people off of insurance and give a huge tax break to those making over $250,000 a year or do you want a congress that will protect access to care?"
 
Many years ago, while “Hillary-Care” was being debated in Congress, a Doctor acquaintance of mine told me that the AMA had a working group that was developing a plan for socialized medicine. Very briefly, it was as follows. A dedicated tax would be implemented. The country would be divided into 7 regions, and each region would be allocated a budget, based on the revenues coming out of the healthcare tax.


Within each region, there would be a committee of lawyers, doctors, ethicists (?), business owners, and regular citizens who would decide, basically, how that money would be spent.


Out of that process would come LIMITATIONS on spending. For example, they wouldn’t allow people over a certain age to get major, costly surgeries; that is to say, the Program would not fund those surgeries. A related question would be, what if the person had the resources to self-fund those things? That could still remove resources from “everyone else.” But whatever.


Clearly, a disproportionate amount of money is spent on Americans who are in the last 90 days of life, much of it merely to extend life by a few days, weeks or months.


Another touchy question arises at the other end of life. Kids are born all the time who are, to put it bluntly, fucked up. They have multiple physical defects (or a combination of mental and physical defects) that could theoretically be corrected by a series of very expensive surgeries over many years, but…is it sane to expend those resources on a person who probably will never be healthy or lead a productive life?


I saw a thing on (I think it was) Facebook yesterday. A mom was writing about her kid, who was like the theoretical one described in the previous paragraph. She attached a copy of an invoice for medical/surgical expenses of about a quarter million dollars, said that this was one of several such surgeries her son had had, and one of several more he would require in the future. And isn’t my kid cute? (Cute picture appended). Yes, the kid is cute.


“And if the Republic plan is adopted,” with its coverage caps, “will my kid be condemned to die???????”


One of many problems with the American conception of healthcare now – unlike the conception in countries that actually HAVE socialized medicine – is that Americans have been convinced that EVERYONE should be able to access – at a “reasonable cost” – the kind of care that the richest person in the country could access if he needed to.


This is INSANE, people! At some point, to quote the late Nancy Reagan, we, as a society have to be able to, “Just Say NO!”


I realize one can say, “What if it was your kid?” but Jesus, no society can afford to spend an INFINITE amount of money on some kid who will probably die before he’s 20 anyway.


We don’t seem to be able to confront the issue of limited resources.

there aren't "limited resources".... this is a give back to billionaires.

I'm pretty sure that won't benefit you. funny how you stamp your widdle feet and defend letting people die.

the US is the only (formerly) civilized nation that doesn't assure the medical treatment of its citizenry.
 
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Never underestimate a Republican's desire to uninsure workers so rich people can get a tax break they don't need.

BREAKING: Donald Trump calls GOP healthcare plan "mean" after learning that tax cuts for the rich only go to rich people who actually pay taxes.‬
 
The idea of letting the federal government control healthcare is a clear demonstration of valuing intentions over results, for pretty much everything the government touches turns to shit. If the VA, run top to bottom by the feds doesn't make that point ultra frickin' clear to our leftist friends, nothing every will.
 

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