Reagan Was A Shitty President

[Big Fitz]

Note Frank thinks Gorby distroyed the USSR.


What an idiot he is

Huh... did it exist after 1992? I'm sure the Russians would be surprised to learn that. Same for the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Georgia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Albania, Turkey and a few other nations to boot.

 

[Madeline]

Amazing how the left SCREAMS that attending a church and affiliating with an organized religion IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE A CHRISTIAN, DAMN IT!!!! . . . until it's a conservative in question.

OK, Miss "I only post facts" - show us the fact that Reagan was a Christian.

From his speech to the National Religious Broadcasters convention after announcing his second-term candidacy:

"Under this roof, some 4,000 of us are kindred spirits united by one burning belief: God is our Father; we are His children; together, brothers and sisters, we are one family."

From the end of the same speech:

"If the Lord is our light, our strength, and our salvation, whom shall we fear? Of whom shall we be afraid? No matter where we live, we have a promise that can make all the difference, a promise from Jesus to soothe our sorrows, heal our hearts, and drive away our fears. He promised there will never be a dark night that does not end. Our weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. He promised if our hearts are true, His love will be as sure as sunlight. And, by dying for us, Jesus showed how far our love should be ready to go: all the way."

Now, you might say, "Lots of politicians mouth religious faith to win points", and you'd be right. But there's a big difference between saying, "God bless America" to pander to voters and talking about God and Jesus the way Reagan did. Argue whether or not he was a GOOD Christian, if you must. But I think it's clear that he thought of himself as a Christian, and only God has the ability to argue that.

Yes, okay...for public consumption, Reagan was a christian. But that is kinda sorta the problem, Cecilie. Rather than appealing to problem-solving, analytical and smart, he pandered to knee-jerk, divisive and stupid. (No, I am not calling christians stupid. I am calling people who wish for a theocracy stupid.) It's a mistake we cannot afford to make again.

 

[Madeline]

I have to say, guys, I'm surprised at the number of people willing to attribute the fall of the USSR to Reagan. Don't the internal politics of the Soviet Union count for more? Wouldn't it have fallen when it did regardless of who was the US President?

 

[Jeremy]

I have to say, guys, I'm surprised at the number of people willing to attribute the fall of the USSR to Reagan. Don't the internal politics of the Soviet Union count for more? Wouldn't it have fallen when it did regardless of who was the US President?

It was definately on the edge and ready to fall over the cliff. But you can't say that Reagan tried to pull it back from the brink. He gave it a nice little nudge to finish the job.

 

[Zona]

Ol Ronnie sucked as a president. He was not the worse in history but he certainly is should not be held so high by the righty's. They need to look specifically into what he did.

 

[Woyzeck]

Like I said, the other "points" are just too fucking stupid to address, unless of course you want to claim that the collapse of the USSR was in the stars and that's why Gorby suddenly decided to dismantle his empire all on his own

Did Reagan really have a such a personal hand in the undoing of the USSR outside of outspending them in an arms race to make them collapse that much sooner?

If spending money was the only criteria Obama would have all of our enemies begging for mercy.

Reagan challenged the USSR in every theater: in Europe he threatened to introduce Pershing and Minutemen missiles along withe the Carter era stealth bombers, A-10, Abrams tanks and other equipment. In Central America he made his his mission to oust Communists and their puppets. In Afghanistan, and so on and so on. Pick a theater and Reagan was challenging Soviet expansion

So threatening missles and military equipement and continueing to try ousting communists from 3rd world countries (which is hardly new strategy) toppled the USSR? If he didn't do any of these things, the USSR would still be standing today?

 

[Madeline]

That is a good question. What did Reagan do that had not been tried before, that you feel accounts for the fall of the USSR?

You people remind me of Nixon apologists, who mew on "Well, at least he reopened trade with China."

Gheesh.

 

[Toro]

I have to say, guys, I'm surprised at the number of people willing to attribute the fall of the USSR to Reagan. Don't the internal politics of the Soviet Union count for more? Wouldn't it have fallen when it did regardless of who was the US President?

Reagan gets some credit, but of course, the USSR didn't actually fall under Reagan. It fell under Bush.

Also, the internal logic of communism meant that eventually, the USSR would collapse. It probably would have collapsed sooner had it not been for the rise of oil prices in the 1970s. Oil was a major source of hard currency for the USSR.

 

[Cecilie1200]

OK, Miss "I only post facts" - show us the fact that Reagan was a Christian.

From his speech to the National Religious Broadcasters convention after announcing his second-term candidacy:

"Under this roof, some 4,000 of us are kindred spirits united by one burning belief: God is our Father; we are His children; together, brothers and sisters, we are one family."

From the end of the same speech:

"If the Lord is our light, our strength, and our salvation, whom shall we fear? Of whom shall we be afraid? No matter where we live, we have a promise that can make all the difference, a promise from Jesus to soothe our sorrows, heal our hearts, and drive away our fears. He promised there will never be a dark night that does not end. Our weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. He promised if our hearts are true, His love will be as sure as sunlight. And, by dying for us, Jesus showed how far our love should be ready to go: all the way."

Now, you might say, "Lots of politicians mouth religious faith to win points", and you'd be right. But there's a big difference between saying, "God bless America" to pander to voters and talking about God and Jesus the way Reagan did. Argue whether or not he was a GOOD Christian, if you must. But I think it's clear that he thought of himself as a Christian, and only God has the ability to argue that.

Yes, okay...for public consumption, Reagan was a christian. But that is kinda sorta the problem, Cecilie. Rather than appealing to problem-solving, analytical and smart, he pandered to knee-jerk, divisive and stupid. (No, I am not calling christians stupid. I am calling people who wish for a theocracy stupid.) It's a mistake we cannot afford to make again.

I disagree on all points. One, I don't think he was pandering at all. I think he genuinely believed the things he said and did. In addition, I don't think he appealed to knee-jerk, divisive, and stupid, nor do I automatically assume that seeing the world from his religious viewpoint appeals to people who wish for a theocracy. And I don't believe that Christianity and "problem-solving, analytical and smart" are mutually exclusive.

Frankly, I find your entire post and the supercilious attitude it reveals toward Christianity to be extremely offensive. If anyone is "knee-jerk", I think it's you.

 

[Madeline]

I know you do, and I'll admit I have written things a christian might be offended by in other threads. But try and suspend judgment for a moment and hear me: I want the 2012 incoming administration to solve problems. I do not want our next Republican president to be swept along a wave of anti-Muslim jingoism, without any substantive ideas on how to address the very real issues facing this country.

The worship of Reagan usually arises from a feeling that there is a "real America" that is somehow overlooked or disenfranchised, and that these hard-working, christian, tax paying, law abiding people are less than smart and should be spoken to by "a regular guy" whom they can trust.

It is time for a statesman, not a ringleader.

 

[Jeremy]

It is time for a statesman, not a ringleader.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have to say, guys, I'm surprised at the number of people willing to attribute the fall of the USSR to Reagan. Don't the internal politics of the Soviet Union count for more? Wouldn't it have fallen when it did regardless of who was the US President?

Not according to many of the Soviets themselves. Former KGB General Oleg Kalugin, for example, or Russian economist Boris Pinsker.

While it is true that, aside from their military strength, the former Soviet Union was a shambling third-world economy at best, that in no way means the country would have collapsed on its own. Lots of third-world countries continue to shamble on indefinitely in the same shape. It was engaging in the arms race with that economy against a United States that suddenly had the will to stand up to them, because of Ronald Reagan, that broke them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is a good question. What did Reagan do that had not been tried before, that you feel accounts for the fall of the USSR?

You people remind me of Nixon apologists, who mew on "Well, at least he reopened trade with China."

Gheesh.

Standing up to them is what hadn't been tried before. Do you remember the Cold War? I do. I remember that before Reagan, the US government had a policy of appeasement toward the Soviet Union. They certainly evidenced no clue that the Soviet Union was "on its last legs", as the left so likes to pretend was common knowledge back then. It was "any treaty is better than no treaty", and never mind the the USSR ignored and violated them whenever it felt like.

 

[Madeline]

This is revisionist fantasy, Cecilie. Remember Korea? Vietnam? Cuba?

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is revisionist fantasy, Cecilie. Remember Korea? Vietnam? Cuba?

Were you planning on making a point, or was I expected to read your mind?

 

[Madeline]

My point is, the US never had a policy of appeasement towards the USSR. Ever.

 

[Big Fitz]

Reagan won the cold war by exploiting the biggest weakness of communism: economics.

It is a PISS-POOR economic system because it ignores scarcity, market forces, human nature and just plain ole entropy.

He took our run down military, and started an arms race the soviets could never keep up with. Introduced SDI which he knew EVEN IF IT NEVER SUCCEEDED, the concept would so scare the Soviets into trying they would waste their entire budget down a technological rathole if they could get an upper hand on it. Their economic system could not generate the resources and capital needed to keep up because it would destabilize their nation in every other aspect causing them internal strife as the needs of the people could not be met. The system could not stay together, and did not.

Gorbechov tried to stop it from happening by adopting some capitalist ideas, but it was too little too late and the small relief valve, so to speak became a raging torrent that the soviets could not deal with, and the suppressed desires of the Russian market quickly took it's toll, destroying the old system through populist reform.

That is how Reagan won the cold war. And if you look carefully, that is what is being done to this nation with social spending.

 

[Synthaholic]

Amazing how the left SCREAMS that attending a church and affiliating with an organized religion IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE A CHRISTIAN, DAMN IT!!!! . . . until it's a conservative in question.

OK, Miss "I only post facts" - show us the fact that Reagan was a Christian.

From his speech to the National Religious Broadcasters convention after announcing his second-term candidacy:

"Under this roof, some 4,000 of us are kindred spirits united by one burning belief: God is our Father; we are His children; together, brothers and sisters, we are one family."

From the end of the same speech:

"If the Lord is our light, our strength, and our salvation, whom shall we fear? Of whom shall we be afraid? No matter where we live, we have a promise that can make all the difference, a promise from Jesus to soothe our sorrows, heal our hearts, and drive away our fears. He promised there will never be a dark night that does not end. Our weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. He promised if our hearts are true, His love will be as sure as sunlight. And, by dying for us, Jesus showed how far our love should be ready to go: all the way."

Now, you might say, "Lots of politicians mouth religious faith to win points", and you'd be right. But there's a big difference between saying, "God bless America" to pander to voters and talking about God and Jesus the way Reagan did. Argue whether or not he was a GOOD Christian, if you must. But I think it's clear that he thought of himself as a Christian, and only God has the ability to argue that.

Frankly, it's clear that Reagan himself did not write that. That has the flowery imagery reminiscent of "shining city on the hill". Sounds like Peggy Noonan. But a minor point, since he would obviously approved the speech prior to giving it.

But the major point is that he was talking to a special interest group: The National Religious Broadcasters Convention! While running for re-election, in 1984! I'm sure that when he talked to steel workers in Pittsburgh, he was just as sincere. In fact, you can read his address to the nation and see just how passionate Ronald Reagan was about steel!

So wouldn't a normal person agree that he might be laying on a little extra Jesus when talking to TV evengelists? That's their stock and trade! He better come with his A-game, rhetorically speaking.


Let's compare that with a speech that President Obama (peace be upon him) made before a Methodist group:

OBAMA: I let Jesus Christ into my life. I learned that my sins could be redeemed and if I placed my trust in Jesus, that he could set me on a path to eternal life. When I submitted myself to his will and I dedicated myself to discovering his truth and carrying out his works, it was that newfound faith that fortified my commitment to the work I was doing in the community. Because it taught me that I could sit in church and pray all I want but I won't be fulfilling the Lord's will unless I am doing the lord's work.​

Sorry, but his sounds more from the heart and more honestly personal than Reagan's pretty words.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yes, that's why Gorby decided that the USSR should self destruct.

Take your meds and then come back and explain what your post has to do with Reagan's policy of 'cut and run'.

Take YOUR meds and show us where leaving Beirut was REAGAN'S idea.

 

[Synthaholic]

I have to say, guys, I'm surprised at the number of people willing to attribute the fall of the USSR to Reagan. Don't the internal politics of the Soviet Union count for more? Wouldn't it have fallen when it did regardless of who was the US President?

It was definately on the edge and ready to fall over the cliff. But you can't say that Reagan tried to pull it back from the brink. He gave it a nice little nudge to finish the job.

I agree. He upped the spending, and the Soviets couldn't keep up. But it gave us massive deficits.

Pope John Paul II was also very instrumental in the fall of the USSR.